ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[enigma]

One more thing

Here's part of the wording. I'd write more, but I don't have it stored electronically and I'm too tired to type for an hour.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that ALPA should modify its policy with regard to the Age rule to enable ALPA to better influence current legislation and regulatory efforts,

 

[Cobra]

It was going to happen sooner or later.. get over it. It is a no win situation. All the senior guys want the change now and the junior guys don't. All the junior guys want to wait until they are 59.5 yrs old and then implement the rule so they can stay on and work. And don't give me this B.S about how you would have saved money and planned better and would not have to work longer... nobody knew 9-11 would happen

You idiots in the "it was going to happen sooner or later" camp are missing the point. We have a union who obviously doesn't represent the large margin of its membership.

Seriously, how do we get started with a movement to recall Prater? Let's get this going right here, right, now via flightinfo.

 

[d328pilot]

You're not correct. Please at least read your constitution before speaking to it's proceedures.

That's a pretty arrogant response. I was mistaken, it was the executive board not the council. But you didnt answer my origninal question. Was ALPA's original position on age 60 a result of a Board of Directors resolution or not? According to what I have read, " The Board’s decisions, whether rendered by ballot or in session, are the final governing decisions and are binding on ALPA’s Executive Board, Executive Council, Officers and members." I think it is a valid question considering the affect this will have on people's careers.

btw, I got my silver pin a while ago but thanks for the demeaning response. It would be nice if ALPA leaders would actually try to educuate the membership instead of always telling them to go read their books or get involved.

 

[Flopgut]

2. The polling showed that ALPA's pilots are in a statistical dead heat regarding age 60. The numbers are 52% for age 60 and 45% against age 60.

3. The polling also showed that 65% of ALPA pilots are in favor of changing ALPA's position. The exact numbers were: 42% want ALPA to modify the policy to address an FAA NPRM or Congressional action, and 23% want to drop all opposition.



ALPA could either continue to stand opposed and allow management to write the new rules, OR ALPA could drop opposition to the change and task our lobbiest and politicians to work and make the change as pilot friendly as possible.

I'm glad that ALPA's BOD and Committee One had the guts to do the right thing.

There is no "guts" in what they are doing. "Guts" would have been to represent the majority in the purest sense of representation.

They only want to get at this and have enough input to secure this windfall for those over age 57, or so. Everyone not at the top of the payscale or under age 57 will take an enormous paycut and see the profession become even more provisional.

My feeling: With the way this vote has gone and the utter disregard shown for the more junior member, I'm not too sure I want ALPA's elite anywhere near the rulemaking process!

 

[Neubyfly]

Can someone tell me how to view the survey results?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Seriously, how do we get started with a movement to recall Prater? Let's get this going right here, right, now via flightinfo.

OK...I haven't been an ALPA member for 14 years ( but somehow, still get the magazine)...but I'll try to help you out. BTW...it doesn't happen on a web forum.

First...Call your local Secretary/Treasurer, tell him/her you want to add a recall motion to the of the next LEC meeting.

Second...get as many people to go to the meeting as possible...more than the usual 13-14 regulars that normally show up to LEC meetings ( as I "recall"-no pun intended).

Third...this one always helps...have a Recall Resolution ready to go...you know...

Whereas...blah, blah, blah

And, whereas...blah, blah, blah

And whereas...blah, blah, blah ( you get the idea...the more "Whereas" paragraphs you have, the stronger your arguement)

Therefore, be it Resloved that Captain John Prater be recalled from the Office of ALPA President.

then in your LEC mee4ting a discussion takes place on this...then the memberhsip votes...then your LEC is bound to take this to the next MEC meeting. If the MEC approves this...it goes to National....Where all the MEC's get to vote on this.

Get with it, Puppy....they're waiting on you....

 

[SSDD]

Oh. You mean we can't just do it on FI? That's too much work!

 

[ToThePain]

The Executive Board was faced with a choice. Attempt to fight the change, or allow the Associations lobbiests and politicians to try and influence the change.

Here are a few facts:
1. 75% of ALPA pilots AGREE that the rule WILL change, possibly as early as this summer.

2. The polling showed that ALPA's pilots are in a statistical dead heat regarding age 60. The numbers are 52% for age 60 and 45% against age 60.
I'm not sure that I would consider this a dead heat, that term is generally used when there is a +- percent error, these SHOULD be absolute numbers and are certainly enough to satisfy what the majority wants, given that this is the third poll/survey they have run with all in favor of the current age restriction.

Ironically the best thing that could have happened (IMO) for those who wanted the age to change to 65 immediatly (APAD, SWAPA) is for ALPA to have voted AGAINST changing the rule. What will happen now? Now that the FAA and ALPA are in agreement to change the age to 65 support for the bills in Congress and the Senate will erode. Most of the democrats (and some republicans) that supported these bills will back off and let the FAA do their job in conjunction with ALPA and make the change to 65 a slow process and not an immediate push. This could be a two year process instead of being an immediate change in the next 6 months.

 

[Grandpa +65]

Great... Finally justice to all. Another 22 years in the left seat of my C-172.

 

[Swaayze]

Here's the problem nowadays: no one seems willing to do what's right anymore regardless of their personal feelings or how hard the road less travelled might be.

Perhaps I should just help my kids find a good dealer "because they're gonna try drugs anyway"? Give me a break. This is nothing more than ALPA taking the easy way out, justfiying it with a skewed poll and the help of weakmined individuals who will buy their rhetoric, and ultimately rejoicing that they have gotten their way and still fooled us all into thinking they fought the good fight for us.

Please.


BTW in case I haven't said it, I do feel that age 60 is mostly unjustified and discriminatory. I wish it wouldn't change mid-game however, as it results in a windfall for some at the expense of others.

 

[SimHo]

First, all you people who are saying it is going to happen anyway need to grow some balls. You are acting like the aircraft who has a lock on you from 50 miles away has killed you already. Even though we all agree the rule PROBABLY will change we need to do everything in our power to prevent it!!

Second, I thought it would come and here is the day. ALPA national is going against the wishes of the majority especially the regional pilots. It is time for the regional’s to create their own union, one that represents the specific thoughts and needs of that group. Major airline guys need to work hard to recall all the ALPA national leadership and replace them with leadership that looks out for the group as a whole, not their own interests. We have a hard road ahead but this can be the turning point for US pilots.

 

[Flydaplane]

Thanks for making my decision easier ALPO, I think I'm finally going to get out of this career and go make some money!

 

[QuasarZ]

First, all you people who are saying it is going to happen anyway need to grow some balls. You are acting like the aircraft who has a lock on you from 50 miles away has killed you already. Even though we all agree the rule PROBABLY will change we need to do everything in our power to prevent it!!

I say "its going to happen anyway" is because it will, and I want it to!
By the way, I have some balls, pretty big ones at that too.

 

[Falconjet]

Enigma: The numbers you posted are wrong, and so are you.

Nice try though.

FJ

 

[Cobra]

OK...I haven't been an ALPA member for 14 years ( but somehow, still get the magazine)...but I'll try to help you out. BTW...it doesn't happen on a web forum.

First...Call your local Secretary/Treasurer, tell him/her you want to add a recall motion to the of the next LEC meeting.

Second...get as many people to go to the meeting as possible...more than the usual 13-14 regulars that normally show up to LEC meetings ( as I "recall"-no pun intended).

Third...this one always helps...have a Recall Resolution ready to go...you know...

Whereas...blah, blah, blah

And, whereas...blah, blah, blah

And whereas...blah, blah, blah ( you get the idea...the more "Whereas" paragraphs you have, the stronger your arguement)

Therefore, be it Resloved that Captain John Prater be recalled from the Office of ALPA President.

then in your LEC mee4ting a discussion takes place on this...then the memberhsip votes...then your LEC is bound to take this to the next MEC meeting. If the MEC approves this...it goes to National....Where all the MEC's get to vote on this.

Get with it, Puppy....they're waiting on you....

Who you calling puppy? Fortunate for you, you can get away with here and here only.

 

[Flopgut]

OK...I haven't been an ALPA member for 14 years ( but somehow, still get the magazine)...but I'll try to help you out. BTW...it doesn't happen on a web forum.

First...Call your local Secretary/Treasurer, tell him/her you want to add a recall motion to the of the next LEC meeting.

Second...get as many people to go to the meeting as possible...more than the usual 13-14 regulars that normally show up to LEC meetings ( as I "recall"-no pun intended).

Third...this one always helps...have a Recall Resolution ready to go...you know...

Whereas...blah, blah, blah

And, whereas...blah, blah, blah

And whereas...blah, blah, blah ( you get the idea...the more "Whereas" paragraphs you have, the stronger your arguement)

Therefore, be it Resloved that Captain John Prater be recalled from the Office of ALPA President.

then in your LEC mee4ting a discussion takes place on this...then the memberhsip votes...then your LEC is bound to take this to the next MEC meeting. If the MEC approves this...it goes to National....Where all the MEC's get to vote on this.

Get with it, Puppy....they're waiting on you....

I don't think we need to do any of that stuff, recall is too good for these guys.

Let's address it in our CBAs. Let's make age 60+ pay copilot's rates and give the next most senior crewmember <60 the captains pay. Afterall, it will be that pilot's age enabling the operation. Or maybe make age 60+ pay work like a reverse mortgage where the pay decreases over the five years to zero for the last month.

Go after them like they've gone after us!

 

[enigma]

Enigma: The numbers you posted are wrong, and so are you.

Nice try though.

FJ

I may be wrong, but the numbers are not. The report I saw numbered 22 pages. Maybe you and I are just looking at different pages.

 

[Damich]

IMHO ALPA mada a big mistake on this one. This was an opportunity for John Prater and co. to take a stand and make a statement. Unfortunately the majority was not represented in this decision. This one issue has and will continue to divide the ALPA membership. It is now clear that the junior guys at the majors and regional guys are not being represented. The only way we can take back our industry is through unity. Besides, the fabled "pilot shortage" was supposed to be one of our bargaining chips. If you say you are gonna take back our industry, take it back! Don't roll over dead! WHAT A JOKE! I believe that over time the ALPA membership at the regionals and some majors will leave the union in search of true representation. Sad but true.

 

[Neubyfly]

Where are the results to the survey!!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

NEWS FLASH:

Over age 60 ALPA pilots flying in the USA! Air Canada Jazz pilot, represented by ALPA, safely and successfully operates in/out of US Capitol. Angry mob of under Age 60 US pilots mass to riot but get thwarted by TSA. LaDonna of the TSA put down her super slurpee and made this statement "I don't know what dem crazy pilots wuz doin', but we stopped 'em... oh and sum of dem was fine!!"

Meanwhile in other news the ALPA EB defies it membership. Many ALPA members demanded that ALPA adhere to the will of the membership. One ALPA pilot who remained anonymous stated: We demand that ALPA leaves us in the pre deregulation era. We don't want to be progressive. Nor do we want to adapt to the changes. We demand that we stay inside the box. We reject any outside of the box thinking. Even though the industry is radically changing we insist on using old school laws.