New Jetblue pay raise!

[elag777]

give me a break

Where would you like it?

 

[instructordude]

Guys, ignore instructordude....he is a POS. He is a flamebait master. I

Wrong. I speak my mind.

cant tell you how many times I had to warn the guy when I was a mod.

Back when I was in Vietnam................:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Please...use the ignore feature. As for you instructor guy....you are truly a piece of work. Go back to your scab outfit

Call it what you want. I've never scabbed and never will. It does pay bills though and I can't complain, two bedroom apartment, hot chicks on the weekends, and a nice IROC. I'm happy!

 

[Mamma]

Well you took the bait with such a simple statement!! Seriously Chef run for the PVC or PCG we could use you there instead of being the daily fluffer for oscams razor, frank lorenzo, and general lee


I like you chef i really do !!!

Ignore him Chef cause we like you here! PVC? Polyvinyl chloride? What would Chef do with PVC pipe anyway and why would he run for it? Confused. PCG? What the heck is that? Protestants for the Common Good? Chef is Catholic. Confused once again.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I think they're cabin cleaning acronyms:

PVC = Primary Vacuuming Captain
PCG = Primary Cleaning Guy

 

[pipe]

I think they're cabin cleaning acronyms:

PVC = Primary Vacuuming Captain
PCG = Primary Cleaning Guy

Actually PCG applies to the FA - Primary Cleaning Gay

 

[Mamma]

I think they're cabin cleaning acronyms:

PVC = Primary Vacuuming Captain
PCG = Primary Cleaning Guy

HEY! Are you trying to be funny? We will have none of that here. Get serious or please leave! Or join a PVC or PCG...whatever that may be.

 

[instructordude]

I think they're cabin cleaning acronyms:

PVC = Primary Vacuuming Captain
PCG = Primary Cleaning Guy

Does Jetblue issue newhires a vacumm during training and if they do, are they reuired to use payroll deduction?

Which vacuums are popular> Hoover, Dyson, etc....

Do you the pilots switch on who has vacumm cleaning duties during a trip? Kinda like your leg, you do you the vacuuming when we ge there.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Well you took the bait with such a simple statement!! Seriously Chef run for the PVC or PCG we could use you there instead of being the daily fluffer for oscams razor, frank lorenzo, and general lee


I like you chef i really do !!!

Run for the PVC? You mean you voted for someone you knew or actually could distinguish from all the other nameless, faceless pilots at jb?

Run for the PCG? You mean we voted for those dudes? I guess I was sick that day.

If you really think I agree or have responded in the positive to Frank or the General, then you are proving me correct. You really don't read my posts. I have not supported those two (and many other jb bashers) on flightinfo.

Now Occam's just smart and unlike most, he gets it.

I don't care if you like me. What I care is that you come on here and refuse to acknowledge some of the facts about jb. I think everyone who wants to come here is entitled to that.

 

[8vATE]

I would luv to be at a place that eats, sleeps and breathes profits. Our operations are too inefficient to truly rock the quarterly numbers.

Reserve numbers suck, RSA calls all the time,

Thus the open houses so close together. It's turning into a direct hire process: come to the interview and if we like you, the paperwork is in order, then you may start w/i a couple of weeks.


The new pay rates are a good step, the retirement (gulp) was var nice (add a b plan and we have a winner) and from what I hear the new reserve rules will really help life for those soon to be 24 month reserve CA stints.

So some positives before we all vote for ALPA. At least we get all this stuff frozen when all(pa) hell breaks loose.

Not a bad post Bavarian...
A little light on the sarcasm... some realistic comments and no huge dark cloud hanging over your head today?

I'll add my perspective since you asked.

Fuel hedging is crapshoot.. you know that. And it costs $$$$.. I think we need to buy an office with a view of SWA's fuel hedging office and try to telescope in on their computer screen. Nobody does it better. Or is luckier.

RSA calls are not the end of the world.. its voluntary you know? Caller ID and all. I would love to see the JUNIOR ASSIGNMENTs though. That's when I start getting angry.

Yes, We all KNOW SWA rocks! No interview yet?

Why don't you get over the whole open house immediate job offer thing? Still bummed it took two years to get the interview? Thats the past man. Its supply/demand ECON 101. A LOT of airlines hire RJ/Regional guys. Its the way it USUALLY works. They even hire military jocks with no crew concept, no instrument time, no deicing experience and no Northeast corridor experience.

The 5% contribution of gross earnings is, in essence, a "B" Plan. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it sure looks like it. It also is enhanced with the profitsharing cash component and the 5% 401k match.

Lastly,
If/when we go ALPA.... EVERYTHING is on the table... we won't necessarily be guaranteed what we have. And count on a more typical 18-36 month negotiation process if things turn nasty/confrontational.

Stay happy!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Not a bad post Bavarian...
A little light on the sarcasm... some realistic comments and no huge dark cloud hanging over your head today?

I'll add my perspective since you asked.

Fuel hedging is crapshoot.. you know that. And it costs $$$$.. I think we need to buy an office with a view of SWA's fuel hedging office and try to telescope in on their computer screen. Nobody does it better. Or is luckier.

RSA calls are not the end of the world.. its voluntary you know? Caller ID and all. I would love to see the JUNIOR ASSIGNMENTs though. That's when I start getting angry.

Yes, We all KNOW SWA rocks! No interview yet?

Why don't you get over the whole open house immediate job offer thing? Still bummed it took two years to get the interview? Thats the past man. Its supply/demand ECON 101. A LOT of airlines hire RJ/Regional guys. Its the way it USUALLY works. They even hire military jocks with no crew concept, no instrument time, no deicing experience and no Northeast corridor experience.

The 5% contribution of gross earnings is, in essence, a "B" Plan. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it sure looks like it. It also is enhanced with the profitsharing cash component and the 5% 401k match.

Lastly,
If/when we go ALPA.... EVERYTHING is on the table... we won't necessarily be guaranteed what we have. And count on a more typical 18-36 month negotiation process if things turn nasty/confrontational.

Stay happy!

I am happy, had a great day with the wife and kids.

One of the reasons I abhore you is because you pretend to know me, my background, my current situation or my experience. You never tire of throwing those barbs out there and in every case you are wrong. As usual I will not return the favor. Apparently a challenge towards jb is perceived as a challenge towards you. I think you are the one that needs to lighten up.

My timeline, since you politely asked was pretty darn quick in 2005. Two weeks after I got the ATP I put my app in at jb and a cargo company. 6 weeks after that jb called (availability to far out there). 3 weeks after that I interviewed with jb. One week later got the phase two email. 4, yes 4 weeks after that I was called with a class date. I did my jb training while still on active duty. 12 days after my jb checkride, I finally finished active duty. Definitely not two years. 5 whole weeks from interview to offer. How does that mesh with your version of reality?

I only mentioned fuel hedging because, oh I don't know -- IT'S FREAKIN' IMPORTANT. But it's not the ONLY reason why swa is successful. Only the JV team thinks that. BTW, what's the price of oil these days? Ahead of the summer driving season too.

RSAs are no big deal? Okay, not that big of a deal. But it certainly gives insight to our staffing numbers, WHICH WAS MY POINT. But that being said, it is much cheaper (for the company) to RSA than it is to upgrade captains. Not being able to fly 1000 hours is IMHO a precursor of what's to come this summer. And that should bother you. How about being able to PTO/UTO? That important to you? Not enough reserves and flying reserves to death is certainly cheaper than hiring more pilots. Or being able to keep them during and after training, if you believe the rumors about some recent attritions. You want some decent profit sharing don't you? Well than you should be angry we dumped 1000 hours, in other words, PROFIT.

Military jocks with no instrument time? Where? Deicing is tough? The Northeast corridor? Is that like "going downtown"? Ohmagod. You really need to spend a week with those forward deployed pilots and see what tough is. You been shot at? Had to shell out of an airplane? Land on a unlit postage stamp, I mean aircraft carrier at 3 am? Spend up to 6 months away from your newborn baby? Better yet, shower with shoes on for 6 months? If you don't get my jokes about the young, hair gel backpack-lugging new hires, then you aren't based in nyc. The point you are missing is what that says about the job and where the morale of this company may be headed. If we hire guys content with these benefits and pay rates, what's the incentive to raise them?

It's not a 5% B plan. But I bet a B plan is in the works. I least that's what I hear.

I put my app in at LUV only recently and turned down the cargo option (doh!) because I wasn't a fan of redeyes. My wife is starting to think I am not a fan of money. If I get called at LUV, then who knows what happens. But if I left it would be because I don't think jb is ever gonna be as big or as successful as luv. Bringing "humanity back to air travel" doesn't allow for it. And frankly, I am afraid to work 25 years at jb in anticipation of the next "big" year. Who knows. Oh that's right, YOU do.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

If/when we go ALPA.... EVERYTHING is on the table... we won't necessarily be guaranteed what we have. And count on a more typical 18-36 month negotiation process if things turn nasty/confrontational.

Stay happy!

Yes, on the table. But current contracts are frozen. Which is what I said.

I personally think ALPA will not succeed this year. Surprise? Or did you peg me as a ALPA lover too?

 

[radarlove]

Military jocks with no instrument time? Where? Deicing is tough? The Northeast corridor? Is that like "going downtown"? Ohmagod. You really need to spend a week with those forward deployed pilots and see what tough is. You been shot at? Had to shell out of an airplane? Land on a unlit postage stamp, I mean aircraft carrier at 3 am? Spend up to 6 months away from your newborn baby? Better yet, shower with shoes on for 6 months? .

You had me at "hello", then you start playing the hero, gag.

Fighter guys in the sim for the first time are funny to watch.

P.S. How hard can something really be if someone with 500 hours can do it?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

You had me at "hello", then you start playing the hero, gag.

Fighter guys in the sim for the first time are funny to watch.

P.S. How hard can something really be if someone with 500 hours can do it?

I just gave some examples of what those wet behind the ears military pilots are doing right at this very moment. I only expect the best from 8vate.

Which sim? The right one or the left one? Did you have an airplane in mind? I actually thought it was funny too, being better than my 8 year veteran airline pilot sim partner.

How hard is it to be a captain if that 25 year old at Colgan can do it?

Can I get an AMEN, btw?! I think this just became a civ vs mil vs regional vs major vs lowecur (any takers) thread. We might have just hit the trifecta! Or is that a fivefecta?

(this is an easter special -- the sarcastic comments are carefully hidden, can you guess my real opinion?)

 

[Mamma]

You had me at "hello", then you start playing the hero, gag.

Fighter guys in the sim for the first time are funny to watch.

P.S. How hard can something really be if someone with 500 hours can do it?

Why do you have your panties in a bunch still over military guys and how you are so much better? Sounds like a huge inferiority complex. Chef was not playing the hero, he was just saying like it is over there.

 

[clickclickboom]

Run for the PVC? You mean you voted for someone you knew or actually could distinguish from all the other nameless, faceless pilots at jb?

Run for the PCG? You mean we voted for those dudes? I guess I was sick that day.

If you really think I agree or have responded in the positive to Frank or the General, then you are proving me correct. You really don't read my posts. I have not supported those two (and many other jb bashers) on flightinfo.

Now Occam's just smart and unlike most, he gets it.

I don't care if you like me. What I care is that you come on here and refuse to acknowledge some of the facts about jb. I think everyone who wants to come here is entitled to that.

I dont think you support them but you are an expert at giving them a daily " jb hater" fix..

PS the reserve grid for bus Fo's tomorrow shows -1 damn !!!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I dont think you support them but you are an expert at giving them a daily " jb hater" fix..

PS the reserve grid for bus Fo's tomorrow shows -1 dang !!!

Support them? By doing what? Email them? I never email anyone at this company. That's what Scud is for. Emails always work at jb, btw. Just ask Tara about the benefits guide.

Jb hater? Yep, I am a jb hater. I hate the company that pays my bills and lets me fly for free. Yep. I hate that.

I voted for the Values Committee members, now I can't remember who they are or what they do. I did read a snazzy letter to the BOD though.

 

[JBPA]

BC,

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. The 121 transition was woefully painful for me too (sarcasm). Those night hand-flown Case III's (no Autos for me) didn't prepare me at all for the grueling ILS approaches with the autopilot on that I was in store for (more sarcasm). Flying around the northeast is especially challenging too when your only experience includes LFE's in Fallon or Red Flag or combat listening to no less than 4 freqs (STK, TAC, HQ, MIDS) while on NVG's and (GASP!) having to actually fly the airplane, work the radar, formation keep, and lead a sec/div downrange at 1200 kts closure, and talk on said radios all at the same time (you keepin' up Av8?)!

I'm about to click into year six-pay. I can hardly wait to be clearing what I did 3 years ago again! Well, at least until they drop the next healthcare bomb on us!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

BC,

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. The 121 transition was woefully painful for me too (sarcasm). Those night hand-flown Case III's (no Autos for me) didn't prepare me at all for the grueling ILS approaches with the autopilot on that I was in store for (more sarcasm). Flying around the northeast is especially challenging too when your only experience includes LFE's in Fallon or Red Flag or combat listening to no less than 4 freqs (STK, TAC, HQ, MIDS) while on NVG's and (GASP!) having to actually fly the airplane, work the radar, formation keep, and lead a sec/div downrange at 1200 kts closure, and talk on said radios all at the same time (you keepin' up Av8?)!

I'm about to click into year six-pay. I can hardly wait to be clearing what I did 3 years ago again! Well, at least until they drop the next healthcare bomb on us!

Come on now, take it easy on him. He had to wait an extra ten minutes for the hotel van and he couldn't get the wireless internet to work until he called the front desk. Oh, and his "Cowabunga, Dude!" sticker fell off his Purdy bag yesterday.

Please, show some empathy. Or sympathy. Your choice.

 

[flyinboxes]

Didn't know ALPA wasn't a real union?

Ask a former TWA guy that question. Nice work on that one boys!

Yes it is ALPA's fault AMR bought your bankrupt airline.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok...now I'm confused. What's the sort here?

I'll take the "cabin cleaning" quips. Chef's got the subsonic civilian sim experts. AlbieF15 take the high guy on your side (TWS). SonicPig, you stay in full scan and look for spitters.

 

[Anaconda]

No, it was the many pilots that have quit in the past months that got JB pilots this raise. A union will be needed to get anything else out of them.

Have that many pilots quite JB in recent months? Where are they going for example?

 

[Oh-ryan]

Military jocks with no instrument time? Where? Deicing is tough? The Northeast corridor? Is that like "going downtown"? Ohmagod. You really need to spend a week with those forward deployed pilots and see what tough is. You been shot at? Had to shell out of an airplane? Land on a unlit postage stamp, I mean aircraft carrier at 3 am? Spend up to 6 months away from your newborn baby? Better yet, shower with shoes on for 6 months? If you don't get my jokes about the young, hair gel backpack-lugging new hires, then you aren't based in nyc. The point you are missing is what that says about the job and where the morale of this company may be headed. If we hire guys content with these benefits and pay rates, what's the incentive to raise them?

BC,
Sometimes I would take the shoes off to spice things up a bit. My own little game of Russian Roulette - the shower version. Will I wake up tomorrow with a planter's wart, athlete's foot... or will it keep me guessing for a couple of weeks and develop into a nice case of toe nail fungus? Who knows... but it sure did make a six month deplyoment go by faster. The other advantage of no shoes is that it is easier to "toe" your shower babies down the drain.

PS.
I agree with you... all civilian pilots suck.

 

[Zipperhead]

Yes it is ALPA's fault AMR bought your bankrupt airline.

It IS ALPA's fault the TWA pilots got stapled due to failure to represent. This is why the lawsuit the TWA pilots have against ALPA is proceeding nicely.

 

[AlbieF15]

Have that many pilots quite JB in recent months? Where are they going for example?

I've seen several former JB guys go to Fedex, SWA, CAL, and to UPS. I've also seen several guys miss on shot 1 at SWA who will be trying again.

 

[Caveman]

I don't have a problem with the first year pay. It's better than most. The problem is the quick upgrade to 320 CA has disappeared and now the new guys have to try and make a living on FO pay for 4-5 years. If someone can get hired at SWA, FedEx, or UPS they can make a LOT more in their second and subsequent years than they can at JetBlue. A LOT more.

The new pay scale doesn't give me a 20% raise for year 2, it gives me a dollar an hour raise. I was already going to get $56 and change, now I'm going to get $57 and change. Whoopty fricking do. Also, no retro for me because I'm just finishing my first year so the only bonus I get is to keep my current rate.

If they really want to stop the bleeding of 1st and 2nd year FOs leaving they are gonna have to do better on year 2/3 pay. Year one we're in good shape compared to everyone else. Then the wheels fall off. That's why people are leaving. It isn't the culture or lack thereof. Show me the money.

 

[zkmayo]

I don't have a problem with the first year pay. It's better than most. The problem is the quick upgrade to 320 CA has disappeared and now the new guys have to try and make a living on FO pay for 4-5 years. If someone can get hired at SWA, FedEx, or UPS they can make a LOT more in their second and subsequent years than they can at JetBlue. A LOT more.

The new pay scale doesn't give me a 20% raise for year 2, it gives me a dollar an hour raise. I was already going to get $56 and change, now I'm going to get $57 and change. Whoopty fricking do. Also, no retro for me because I'm just finishing my first year so the only bonus I get is to keep my current rate.

If they really want to stop the bleeding of 1st and 2nd year FOs leaving they are gonna have to do better on year 2/3 pay. Year one we're in good shape compared to everyone else. Then the wheels fall off. That's why people are leaving. It isn't the culture or lack thereof. Show me the money.

I realize Im wasting my breath here, but here goes. Youre just getting off 1st year pay and youre already complaining about 2nd year pay? Boo frickin hoo is right...didnt you look at the pay scale when you got on here for years 2-10? I just dont get it. Where in the last 11 months has the expectation been created that you would get a pay raise beyond what you signed on for? Not only the expectation, but the entitlement that you are actually "owned" any raise? Reality check: JB is a 7 year old start up, it hasnt been around 35 years or 197 years like SWA/FDX and UPS. Youre not going to make that type of money here nor should you expect to NOW. Year by year pay should come up though. If you want to go work for them, more power to you. Im not saying we all dont deserve more money, we all do. But the last time I looked this is still a very young company that hasnt been very profitable of late.

Im not bashing you or defending the company; I just dont understand the expectations or the sense of entitlement.

 

[General Lee]

I realize Im wasting my breath here, but here goes. Youre just getting off 1st year pay and youre already complaining about 2nd year pay? Boo frickin hoo is right...didnt you look at the pay scale when you got on here for years 2-10? I just dont get it. Where in the last 11 months has the expectation been created that you would get a pay raise beyond what you signed on for? Not only the expectation, but the entitlement that you are actually "owned" any raise? Reality check: JB is a 7 year old start up, it hasnt been around 35 years or 197 years like SWA/FDX and UPS. Youre not going to make that type of money here nor should you expect to NOW. Year by year pay should come up though. If you want to go work for them, more power to you. Im not saying we all dont deserve more money, we all do. But the last time I looked this is still a very young company that hasnt been very profitable of late.

Im not bashing you or defending the company; I just dont understand the expectations or the sense of entitlement.

It looks like the way to make money at JB is as an A320 Capt. What are the prospects at an upgrade onto the bus at JB? Probably not very good, since all of the 320 captains are young and won't retire anytime soon, and there are probably many senior bus FOs waiting for any spot that opens up. There are probably E190 Captains that are waiting to move over to the bus left seat eventually too. If you are junior on the bus or E190 as an FO right now, it may take awhile to see that large pay increase. Don't worry, we have some of the same problems here at DL, but we are getting a bunch more 757s this year and some more 777s and 787s eventually. And hey, maybe we will merge (or aquire you or parts of you) and you can bid 767s over here.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AlbieF15]

I realize Im wasting my breath here, but here goes. Youre just getting off 1st year pay and youre already complaining about 2nd year pay? Boo frickin hoo is right...didnt you look at the pay scale when you got on here for years 2-10? I just dont get it. Where in the last 11 months has the expectation been created that you would get a pay raise beyond what you signed on for? Not only the expectation, but the entitlement that you are actually "owned" any raise? Reality check: JB is a 7 year old start up, it hasnt been around 35 years or 197 years like SWA/FDX and UPS. Youre not going to make that type of money here nor should you expect to NOW. Year by year pay should come up though. If you want to go work for them, more power to you. Im not saying we all dont deserve more money, we all do. But the last time I looked this is still a very young company that hasnt been very profitable of late.

Im not bashing you or defending the company; I just dont understand the expectations or the sense of entitlement.

I think don't caveman or anyone else have a "sense of entitlement", but they are looking around and seeing if their skills can go to a higher bidder. Caveman doesn't "owe" JB (nor does anyone else) a day longer on the property than they want to work there. Why would someone join knowing year 2 or 3 pay was low? First--there has been a lot of discussion in improving those rates. Second--compensation comes in many forms...including profit sharing and stock options. Finally--getting the 121 experience might make folks more marketable to other companies. Checking in for a year then checking out when a better deal comes along doesn't make a pilot a terrible person--it makes them a realistic business person.

A lot of folks are at JB now because JB was the only place they could get hired, and it was better than where they were OR it was good bridge to a later job.

And that...in a nutshell...is the big difference between JB now and 3 years ago. 3 years ago people joined with career aspirations. Now, a lot of folks look at this place as a stepping stone. Caveman (I think) left a job as a CL 65 captain at a place going through some tough times. Now he has a better job (I think). However--nothing says he can't march on to someone else with a little more experience and perspective now, and his stop in JB doesn't make him a terrible guy.

The choice is really up to current management. If they want career guys, then there needs to be some career type pay. Otherwise--folks will jump for better offers. When guys were upgrading at 2 years and making six figures, getting profit sharing, and the stock was on the way up...well...they'd ride the storms. Right now, JB has a great culture, but some real growing pains and a staganting upgrade train. Attrition is only going to go up, not down--until those things change. Chastising folks for looking for better deals is unrealistic.

One final note--and I've said this before--folks who STAY at a carrier should THANK everyone leaving. There is NO better way--even unionization--to send a signal to management that "...it needs to be better..." Every guy who walks over to FDX, CAL, or whereever is putting pressure on the company to make YOUR life better too. If they are senior to you--you move up a notch. If they are junior--its easier now to get your buddies hired. And either way--somebody is having to factor is attrition costs when they determine the next set of pay scales.

 

[AlbieF15]

Don't worry, we have some of the same problems here at DL, but we are getting a bunch more 757s this year and some more 777s and 787s eventually. And hey, maybe we will merge (or aquire you or parts of you) and you can bid 767s over here.


Bye Bye--General Lee[/quote]

Weren't you the same guy who a month ago was wearing a "keep Delta my Delta" lanyard and praying to God and anyone that would listen for Doug Parker to leave you alone?

It is continually apparent to me that without a Delta uniform on you are a very small person without much of a true identity in life. While I seriously doubt Delta will in fact merge/purchase/aquire any part of B6, I also never thought US Air had a shot at either America West or Delta, so I know I don't know squat about the industry. What I do know, however, is that by taunting guys about a possible merger or buyout just continues to reveal the lack of class and maturity that has characterized about 90% of the drivel you put on these boards.

 

[Nado]

Albie, taking words out of my mouth as usual.

GL, I keep trying to like you but you just make it so hard.

For the last 5 years it was pretty easy to take shots at you and DAL, what with record setting losses, no pensions (that you voted for if memory serves) and a long term BK, but that is just bad karma. DAL pilots are mostly good guys to give/get rides from. I have even had some interesting ALPA discussions with them. I try to remember they are in the majority, and you just hide behind a computer with your myopian view.

Just because you can reply to any and all threads, doesn't mean you should.