SWA or DAL

[General Lee]

You made the right choice, Delta is the place to go in an uncertain market.

You must be incredibly bored at SWA. If you aren't now, you will be in 10 years. Eventually 4-6 legs a day with 25 minute turns will get very tiresome and probably boring. You will see a heck of a lot of the same cities, and the layovers will get shorter and shorter for your tired body as you grow older. Dreaming of 24 hour layovers at some tropical paradise will wake you up in a cold sweat at your Spokane layover. But hey, at least you are paid well.... And let me guess? You have 20 days off a month and you can't wait to buy a ticket on Delta to some paradise? Good luck with that. You can jumpseat on us you know.....We'll tell you where to stay.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Sounds about right, General... I'm thinking of quiting and starting over at DAL, so I can fly international and sit on my A$$ even longer. So I can fly through more time zones to feel like $hit only to sleep my whole layover to "recover" only to try to fly back to ATL, which is not an easy task. Then I would have to commute, cus Momma don't want to live in ATL.

On a good day I am just human.

me too, go figure.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If the open skies agreement passes SWA/FO you are probably going to be an international pilot since SW will have to fly to europe to be competitive. Also Gary Kelly warned investors today that SW earnings are sliding into the red if something does change soon.

 

[General Lee]

Sounds about right, General... I'm thinking of quiting and starting over at DAL, so I can fly international and sit on my A$$ even longer. So I can fly through more time zones to feel like $hit only to sleep my whole layover to "recover" only to try to fly back to ATL, which is not an easy task. Then I would have to commute, cus Momma don't want to live in ATL.




me too, go figure.

Hey, at least I can get up in the cockpit out of the seat, do some jumping jacks if I need to, and also go back and sit in the crew rest seat and eat a good meal watching a movie. I probably would sit less in the seat that you would. You, on the otherhand, will be looking for food during your 25 min turns. As far as recovering after you return, a lot of that depends on the length of the trip. If you go on a 6 day trip, you probably will have more time off when you return, since it is worth more. You may also get some good rest on your trips---like the 36 hour layover in Rio or Buenos Aires. But. you might have to rest your eyes in Nice though during the Summer swimming season, or you may be tired from that round of golf you played in Dublin....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Captzaahlie]

I have had an interesting development.
I have been hired by DAL and am waiting for a class. I just received an e-mail inviting me to a SWA interview in April. What are your thoughts on this. We would love to get back to TX, but is SWA a good move for someone who has a job at DAL and is one of the first 30 or so hired.


Anyone?

Dude, big congrats to you both accounts!

SWA looks like more fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNIxKdqBRYQ

At DAL you get a double breasted blazer........ tough choice wish I had to

make it for my self......

My vote is for SWA based on the job security, SWA owns 99% of the A/C they fly.... times got too rough they could sell them and lease like everyone else.... not too many companies pay cash for their rides.

Good luck!

 

[SWA/FO]

36 hour layover

= time away from your Family. For some this could be a good thing. I like to raise my kids, watch them grow and be there. You're braging about extented time away from your Family?

With your current payrates, you can make more money at Southwest Airlines and you don't even have to leave the lower 48. Why put your body through all that for LESS money. R U S T U P I D? You can get an overnight in your home city and get paid to be at home, raising the kids, catching the game and seeing the old lady.

 

[Captzaahlie]

= time away from your Family. For some this could be a good thing. I like to raise my kids, watch them grow and be there. You're braging about extented time away from your Family?

They don't let guys like General raise kids......
( just kidding General)

The generals kids are prob. all off to Harvard or yale already!

I take the nice topless layover in Nice and save the pictures for my son when he turns 18!

I still think SWA would be a better fit for me but that's why we have choices right?

I worked the ramp for DAL many years ago for DAL in IAD and never recovered from dumping lav's........................ beside's the Mrs works there as a "skygoddess" and then I'd have to share a crash pad with her!

 

[EMBpilot]

SWA/FO,

One can always choose domestic flying, have 9-14 hour overnights and minimize TAFB and jetlag.
The real kick comes from ability to choose what you want to fly and avoid burn out.
Once your kids are off to Harvard you too might enjoy taking your wife on a 76 hours layover in Rome.

 

[General Lee]

= time away from your Family. For some this could be a good thing. I like to raise my kids, watch them grow and be there. You're braging about extented time away from your Family?

With your current payrates, you can make more money at Southwest Airlines and you don't even have to leave the lower 48. Why put your body through all that for LESS money. R U S T U P I D? You can get an overnight in your home city and get paid to be at home, raising the kids, catching the game and seeing the old lady.

Huh? You are going to be away anyway (don't you guys have 4 day trips?). We also have high time 3 day trips to Europe from ATL and JFK. So, if you are going to be away from home for 3 days (go to Copenhagen, Barcelona, Munich, Istanbul, Athens, Nice, Rome, Venice, Zurich, Honolulu, Maui, Tokyo, Lima, or Dublin) 4 days (Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Sao Paulo), 6 days (Johannesburg, double Londons(thru CVG), double Moscow's (thru ATL), double Frankfurts (thru CVG), double Amersterdams (thru CVG), Mumbai (48 hour layover via NYC), then take your pick. Or, you can do one day turns (turns to San Juan, St Thomas, Antigua, PHX from ATL, and you can be home EVERY NIGHT. Can you do that at SWA? If you want options, we have them. At SWA, you have the option to go to Lubbock, but it is more than likely that you will go there anyway.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bravodude]

You must be incredibly bored at SWA. If you aren't now, you will be in 10 years. Eventually 4-6 legs a day with 25 minute turns will get very tiresome and probably boring. You will see a heck of a lot of the same cities, and the layovers will get shorter and shorter for your tired body as you grow older. Dreaming of 24 hour layovers at some tropical paradise will wake you up in a cold sweat at your Spokane layover. But hey, at least you are paid well.... And let me guess? You have 20 days off a month and you can't wait to buy a ticket on Delta to some paradise? Good luck with that. You can jumpseat on us you know.....We'll tell you where to stay.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Dude,
you can have the time zone changes I'll stick with ABQ overnights and a company that cares about me. (can you say the same) I guess you really do have big pen_$$ syndrome. good luck! come talk to me in a couple of years when delta comes after you for some more consecions.

 

[Murphy]

Nice sales pitch General!

 

[bravodude]

If the open skies agreement passes SWA/FO you are probably going to be an international pilot since SW will have to fly to europe to be competitive. Also Gary Kelly warned investors today that SW earnings are sliding into the red if something does change soon.

I don't now where you get your information from besided pulling out of your a$$ but at the JP Morgan conference Kelly said they will grow earnings 1% this quarter. its not much but they still reafirmed their goal for 15% for the year.

 

[mach zero]

Huh? You are going to be away anyway (don't you guys have 4 day trips?). We also have high time 3 day trips to Europe from ATL and JFK. So, if you are going to be away from home for 3 days (go to Copenhagen, Barcelona, Munich, Istanbul, Athens, Nice, Rome, Venice, Zurich, Honolulu, Maui, Tokyo, Lima, or Dublin) 4 days (Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Sao Paulo), 6 days (Johannesburg, double Londons(thru CVG), double Moscow's (thru ATL), double Frankfurts (thru CVG), double Amersterdams (thru CVG), Mumbai (48 hour layover via NYC), then take your pick. Or, you can do one day turns (turns to San Juan, St Thomas, Antigua, PHX from ATL, and you can be home EVERY NIGHT. Can you do that at SWA? If you want options, we have them. At SWA, you have the option to go to Lubbock, but it is more than likely that you will go there anyway.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Thanks but I'll take the Texas two step with a MAF or LBB overnight and enjoy the fact that we have never furloughed and are not bankrupt.

 

[737 Pylt]

Sounds about right, General... I'm thinking of quiting and starting over at DAL, so I can fly international and sit on my A$$ even longer. So I can fly through more time zones to feel like $hit only to sleep my whole layover to "recover" only to try to fly back to ATL, which is not an easy task. Then I would have to commute, cus Momma don't want to live in ATL.

Trailer in Kansas has all the amenities? Don't you think its about time to get out from living with your mom?

737

Can this thread die already, PLEASE!!

 

[Nindiri]

If I was about ten years younger, I'd take the chance and go with Delta. The opportunity to fly international and have a variety of aircraft to fly during a career there would be hard to turn down. At my age, though, I'd have to go with SWA and the quicker upgrade and better money.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

At 32 I think it is a hard opportunity to pass up.

 

[Captzaahlie]

At 32 I think it is a hard opportunity to pass up.

At 43 I'm almost middle aged! So i'd have to go for the quicker upgrade too.

See your choice is not as hard as you think..................

 

[General Lee]

Dude,
you can have the time zone changes I'll stick with ABQ overnights and a company that cares about me. (can you say the same) I guess you really do have big pen_$$ syndrome. good luck! come talk to me in a couple of years when delta comes after you for some more consecions.

Time zone changes? Well, if you stay up all night long in Munich after not taking a nap, then you probably would be tired. (until you take your 3 hour nap in a crew rest seat across the pond). I think you would be much more tired with 5-6 legs and AM trips at Southwest. You have no time to rest, and knowing you have 4 more legs to go after you do an early AM from ELP to PHX (with LAX, SJC, SEA, and GEG to go) just doesn't sound fun, at all. But don't worry, you can go to the local pub in GEG where they have the 1 2 3 rule and drink your sorrows away, and go to bed a 6pm so you can do the same thing tomorrow---GEG--BOI--SLC--STL--CLE--DTW. Sweet!

Instead, you can go to Venice, Italy from ATL or JFK, stay at a very nice hotel and take a short ride to the canals and have a real Italian dinner, get some sleep, and then fly home, flying a 3 day worth 22 hours, and having a total of 3 pilots. If you lack landings for the month, you can pick up 757 trips that are shorter (like St Martaen, Aruba (24 hour layover on the beach), always fun Bogota, Quito or Guayaquil (Ecuador), or the ever popular San Jose, Costa Rica. Options. You can stay in the same time zone and fly Latin America, or you can go way South to South America, or you can go to Africa and spot a zebra and eat a roasted Rhino, or you can go to Europe and drink beer. Or, you can even bid domestic and fly one of 5 or 6 other types of planes and do the Southwest style flying. Options. That is the difference. Here we can fly a 738 (we have 737-700s on order, with winglets too) forever, and in the last year we can bid 777 and see Dubai. Options are great. We had a newhire just get the 767ER INTL out of JFK too. It is not out of reach.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

General you fly an MD-80. How you getting to all these places?

Can you do that at SWA?

not right now, how long is Delta going to be doing all that??? We will be doing all the stuff soon enough.

 

[General Lee]

General you fly an MD-80. How you getting to all these places?



not right now, how long is Delta going to be doing all that??? We will be doing all the stuff soon enough.

I can be a Captain on an MD88, but I am waiting for 738 as a line holder, which isn't too far off. And let me guess what you fly??????? Oh wait, you will always (ALWAYS) fly a 737. Maybe today you are flying a 737-500 instead of a -300, and maybe tomorrow you will be flying a -700 !!!! I bet you can't wait!!! Good for you! Have fun on that AM trip with stops in CLE, MDW, OMA, DEN, LAS, LAX, OAK, PDX, BOI, SEA, PHX, ELP, PHX (again), ABQ, LBB, AUS, HOU, MSY, BNA, ORF, and back to BWI. Wow, all in 3 days. You must be great at landings...... I will be doing San Juan this week (turns), and a St Thomas too. I can't wait for ANC summer trips. The fishing is great. I'll ship you some.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I can be a Captain on an MD88, but I am waiting for 738 as a line holder, which isn't too far off....I'l be doing San Juan this week (turns), and a St Thomas too. I can't wait for ANC summer trips. The fishing is great. I'll ship you some.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You could be Captain and choose not to be??? (Kinda funny you're going to upgrade in the airplane you love to make fun of. Oh yes, an '800 is just like a '700 sport)

In that case I would take up a collection for the fish. 'Cause folks who have been at SWA as long as you have been at Delta have been Captains for quite awhile making twice your salary. They'll be happy to oblige

But don't fret. When you upgrade they'll only be making 30% more than you.

(And SWA's CASM is still lower)

 

[bravodude]

Time zone changes? Well, if you stay up all night long in Munich after not taking a nap, then you probably would be tired. (until you take your 3 hour nap in a crew rest seat across the pond). I think you would be much more tired with 5-6 legs and AM trips at Southwest. You have no time to rest, and knowing you have 4 more legs to go after you do an early AM from ELP to PHX (with LAX, SJC, SEA, and GEG to go) just doesn't sound fun, at all. But don't worry, you can go to the local pub in GEG where they have the 1 2 3 rule and drink your sorrows away, and go to bed a 6pm so you can do the same thing tomorrow---GEG--BOI--SLC--STL--CLE--DTW. Sweet!

Instead, you can go to Venice, Italy from ATL or JFK, stay at a very nice hotel and take a short ride to the canals and have a real Italian dinner, get some sleep, and then fly home, flying a 3 day worth 22 hours, and having a total of 3 pilots. If you lack landings for the month, you can pick up 757 trips that are shorter (like St Martaen, Aruba (24 hour layover on the beach), always fun Bogota, Quito or Guayaquil (Ecuador), or the ever popular San Jose, Costa Rica. Options. You can stay in the same time zone and fly Latin America, or you can go way South to South America, or you can go to Africa and spot a zebra and eat a roasted Rhino, or you can go to Europe and drink beer. Or, you can even bid domestic and fly one of 5 or 6 other types of planes and do the Southwest style flying. Options. That is the difference. Here we can fly a 738 (we have 737-700s on order, with winglets too) forever, and in the last year we can bid 777 and see Dubai. Options are great. We had a newhire just get the 767ER INTL out of JFK too. It is not out of reach.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That all sounds great with a few exceptions. first every delta retired pilot that a ever flew while at a fractional all said international flying sucks. second i am sure you like your morning coffe in venice with your 90 year old fa's and thta slam clicker of a captain but as for me i will fly in the us and with the money that i make i will go with my wife. what is that you make good money too oh but wait i would have to be a heavy captain to make good money i wonder how long that will take. gimme a brake. I know why you are waiting for the 737 its so that if you go bk again and ask for conscesions again you can come over here. but don't worry we will never hire so go to the mad dog.

 

[Double Shot]

never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference.

 

[Double Shot]

In case of doubt, make it sound convincing.

Let this thread end already.

 

[SWA/FO]

So all that talk about HEAVY flying and you don't even fly one?

If you think SWA will fly 737 forever you couldn't be more wrong. You keep talking about 8 legs and overnights that few crews stay at. Maybe your argument would make sense if you had it in 1982. But General the war is over (and you lost), this is 2007.

I start reading your posts and the first few sentences make some sense. Some people want different things, different types of flying etc... then you jump way overboard with a bunch of lies about the current state of affairs at Southwest Airlines.

 

[General Lee]

You could be Captain and choose not to be??? (Kinda funny you're going to upgrade in the airplane you love to make fun of. Oh yes, an '800 is just like a '700 sport)

In that case I would take up a collection for the fish. 'Cause folks who have been at SWA as long as you have been at Delta have been Captains for quite awhile making twice your salary. They'll be happy to oblige

But don't fret. When you upgrade they'll only be making 30% more than you.

(And SWA's CASM is still lower)

Well, I have flown the 737-200, the 737-300G (glass they called it), and the 737-800 before. I also plan to be a captain on the 757/767 when I can hold it, and then maybe the 764. Then, after those, I will probably bid the 787 and then the 777. How about you guys? I have no wish to fly the MD88, and that is an option I have at Delta. (choices are good).

I am so glad you think you know our salaries. Maybe you haven't been reading any DL posts, but we are getting a minimum of 11% raise over the next two years (thanks to our 401Ks being filled to the max, and DL still having to pay us the 9% DC contribution, and the 2% 401K match---now in cash), added to a 12 year Captain salary that is bound to go up over our current contract. (Really, you and I know it has to go up) And who is making TWICE my salary? Really? So, when I do go to 738 Captain your guys will be paid over $300 an hour? Twice the pay, huh? Riiiight.

The key here is that I actually have a choice on what I fly, and what I bid. You do not. You could stay FO forever I guess, or you can be a captain on a plane you will fly forever. Great. I can go for domestic, or for INTL flying. I can fly big, or fly small. The smallest plane I want to captain (now) is bigger than the biggest plane you have, and I will go even bigger, eventually making at least what your captains make, and maybe more. Are you sure SWA's CASM is lower than our mainline's CASM? (you love to add our RJs into the equation...) Doubt it. Enjoy ELP!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So all that talk about HEAVY flying and you don't even fly one?

If you think SWA will fly 737 forever you couldn't be more wrong. You keep talking about 8 legs and overnights that few crews stay at. Maybe your argument would make sense if you had it in 1982. But General the war is over (and you lost), this is 2007.

I start reading your posts and the first few sentences make some sense. Some people want different things, different types of flying etc... then you jump way overboard with a bunch of lies about the current state of affairs at Southwest Airlines.

Okay, HUH? I fly the 757 (to ST Thomas) and the 767-300 to San Juan and ANC in the Summer. The 767-300 is a heavy, but you knew that. And guess what? I have a few good friends at SWA that tell me about their schedules. You couldn't be more wrong. One confessed to me that he didn't know if he could handle that many legs each trip for another 25 years. (no lie) But, maybe guys like you enjoy that flying. Good for you. It is not for everyone, and not everyone wants to do it. To say that you don't do many legs is wrong. I know that you have added some long transcons into the mix (PHL-LAX, BWI--OAK, PVD--PHX, BWI-SAN etc). That is great. But the deal is that instead of stopping in LAX after flying from PHL, they usually tag on another leg or two. No thanks. Great productivity equals exhaustion for most. You may be the exception to the rule. Good for you. You can't hide the truth. Enjoy it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Dude, Your Company is in bankruptcy. U R smok'in crack.

So now all of the sudden you "trust" your management cus they are telling you something you want to hear? Did they teach you this in the Navy?

Are you sure SWA's CASM is lower than our mainline's CASM? (you love to add our RJs into the equation...) Doubt it. Enjoy ELP!

You seem real proud about your paycut. We kick everyones a$$, without a paycut. If RJs made money then why would Delta sell ASA? If RJs made money - we would fly them at Southwest. Cattle Baron rules in ELP!!!

 

[Quimby]

Time zone changes? Well, if you stay up all night long in Munich after not taking a nap, then you probably would be tired. (until you take your 3 hour nap in a crew rest seat across the pond). I think you would be much more tired with 5-6 legs and AM trips at Southwest. You have no time to rest, and knowing you have 4 more legs to go after you do an early AM from ELP to PHX (with LAX, SJC, SEA, and GEG to go) just doesn't sound fun, at all. But don't worry, you can go to the local pub in GEG where they have the 1 2 3 rule and drink your sorrows away, and go to bed a 6pm so you can do the same thing tomorrow---GEG--BOI--SLC--STL--CLE--DTW. Sweet!

Instead, you can go to Venice, Italy from ATL or JFK, stay at a very nice hotel and take a short ride to the canals and have a real Italian dinner, get some sleep, and then fly home, flying a 3 day worth 22 hours, and having a total of 3 pilots. If you lack landings for the month, you can pick up 757 trips that are shorter (like St Martaen, Aruba (24 hour layover on the beach), always fun Bogota, Quito or Guayaquil (Ecuador), or the ever popular San Jose, Costa Rica. Options. You can stay in the same time zone and fly Latin America, or you can go way South to South America, or you can go to Africa and spot a zebra and eat a roasted Rhino, or you can go to Europe and drink beer. Or, you can even bid domestic and fly one of 5 or 6 other types of planes and do the Southwest style flying. Options. That is the difference. Here we can fly a 738 (we have 737-700s on order, with winglets too) forever, and in the last year we can bid 777 and see Dubai. Options are great. We had a newhire just get the 767ER INTL out of JFK too. It is not out of reach.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You make intl' flying sound so glamorous & exciting. Try not to sugar coat it quite so much though.

For not giving a rat's a$$ about SWA, you sure are hung up on the routes, skeds, turn times & layovers that are done in Herb's 73's. What's up with that?

 

[SWA/FO]

Great productivity equals

continued employment, no paycuts, no benefit cuts, no work rule changes