SKYWEST Pilots: SAY NO TO ALPA!!

[Lazy8]

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. Just because upgrades are 24 months now at SkyWest does not mean they will not be at ASA or Eagle levels someday.

This industry is cyclical. SkyWest is at the top of the heap right now, but may or may not be 5 years from now.

Actually, that has everything to do with it. We're not talking 5 years from now we're talking today. If in 5 years from now SkyWest has 10 year upgrades you can expect higher per hour wages. You don't demand pay for what your airline may or may-not be doing 5-10 years from now. Regionals are paid out on PRESENT DAY contracts from the majors.

You accept job contracts that give your company a profit margin today and change that contract as the business changes. If SkyWest had ComAir's hourly wages, they'd be harder pressed to generate profits because, overall, you're paying employees WAY more with quick upgrades. I'm sure everyone is familiar with Horizon's long upgrade yet very high hourly wage. You can't honestly tell me they'd be paying those wages if they had 12-24 month upgrades.

*edit*
And please, let's not cherry pick out failing airline pilot pay-rates to SkyWest's. They're paid & treated better than most any ALPA regional carrier.

g

 

[SSDD]

Completely incorrect. Filling out an ASAP will NOT, once again, will NOT, keep you from losing your job. It only keeps the FAA from violating you. If you are an idiot, the company can still fire you.

SkyWest will only provide you with a lawyer if they want to, they are not required to do so. If they decide to fire you, I guarantee you will not receive legal help from SkyWest.

If you are an idiot, you SHOULD be fired! What kind of arguement is that?

 

[ILOVEBEER]

If you are an idiot, you SHOULD be fired! What kind of arguement is that?

What?? It wasn't an argument, I was correcting his misconceptions. I think you need to re-read it. I agree, you should be fired. The original poster seems to think that an ASAP will save your job, which is incorrect. I just laid out the facts, Jack.

 

[DashTrash400]

You accept job contracts that give your company a profit margin today and change that contract as the business changes. If SkyWest had ComAir's hourly wages, they'd be harder pressed to generate profits because, overall, you're paying employees WAY more with quick upgrades. I'm sure everyone is familiar with Horizon's long upgrade yet very high hourly wage. You can't honestly tell me they'd be paying those wages if they had 12-24 month upgrades.

Actually our payrates were negotiated at a time when our upgrade time was considerably lower, quite close to what Skywest is today. Low payrates are low payrates whatever the upgrade time. You might think your takehome pay is plenty after that 8 month Brasilia upgrade, but meanwhile management around the industry is pointing to your depressed payscales and trying to convince 5 year FOs they need to "migrate to market."

 

[www.]

In my eyes it's obvious we need representation at SkyWest...but I look at ALPA and see nothing but problems. What is the union at Southwest..inhouse? Why is it that they are not chastised for not being ALPA?
W

Yes, you do need representation.

Yes, they are inhouse but are a union.

Because they are a union.

I think there are some on this board that would agree that ALPA may not be for you but you need to be represented by someone. If you don't vote for representation JA will just walk away with the money in his pocket just like the several times before.

You can have a relationship with the company and have a union. The difference is that everything is in ink. If a person has a problem with putting it in a contract then would you just take his word for it? Those days are over and even at SWA and CAL, when Gordon was there, they had contracts and both airlines were successful.

 

[IFLYASA]

Actually, that has everything to do with it. We're not talking 5 years from now we're talking today. If in 5 years from now SkyWest has 10 year upgrades you can expect higher per hour wages. You don't demand pay for what your airline may or may-not be doing 5-10 years from now. Regionals are paid out on PRESENT DAY contracts from the majors.

You accept job contracts that give your company a profit margin today and change that contract as the business changes. If SkyWest had ComAir's hourly wages, they'd be harder pressed to generate profits because, overall, you're paying employees WAY more with quick upgrades. I'm sure everyone is familiar with Horizon's long upgrade yet very high hourly wage. You can't honestly tell me they'd be paying those wages if they had 12-24 month upgrades.

*edit*
And please, let's not cherry pick out failing airline pilot pay-rates to SkyWest's. They're paid & treated better than most any ALPA regional carrier.

g

Here at ASA, it's about a 5 year upgrade and our management if offering a payscale less than yours.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Which part? The tennis shoes that Chromer gave him written permisson to wear or the FFDO thing?

The FFDO thing. He stepped on his own peepee bad with those 2 cancellations, and still retained his job. His reasoning is simple. He believes that "these FOs can't fly a plane to save their own lives; why should I have any of them in the cockpit with me with a weapon?" Isn't it strange that the FOM change requiring the AP to be engaged in RVSM airspace was specifically because of him, though no one will admit it?

The black sneaker thing is totally bogas. If he has an issue with his feet, why does he carry all of his bags and not use a rollerboard or some other assist device?

Things that make you go, "Let's do whatever we want."

 

[SkyWstman]

I didn't bother to read all the posts but I will tell you why I am in favor. Skywest is deceptive to it's employees. The 18 month TA thing was deceptive. Recently the company said they were willing to talk about a pay raise, then they said,"oh, sorry, there is a union drive going on so we can't." Like this is the first time there was a union drive at Skywest. Now because many of the fence sitters have jumped over to the side of legal representation, they can all of a sudden talk about a raise again. I don't like being lied to, I could care less if we get a raise unless it's significant. I don't think it will be much in these times anyway. The other reason I want ALPA is so that if I overlook something in the normal course of duty and somebody dies, I have the absolute best in legal representation. When someone dies, the public wants a lynching even if it was unintentional. I don't want to spend anytime in prison for a simple mistake that turns into a disaster. I think I will be better served by the union lawyers than Skywest lawyers.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

The FFDO thing. He stepped on his own peepee bad with those 2 cancellations, and still retained his job. His reasoning is simple. He believes that "these FOs can't fly a plane to save their own lives; why should I have any of them in the cockpit with me with a weapon?" Isn't it strange that the FOM change requiring the AP to be engaged in RVSM airspace was specifically because of him, though no one will admit it?

The black sneaker thing is totally bogas. If he has an issue with his feet, why does he carry all of his bags and not use a rollerboard or some other assist device?

Things that make you go, "Let's do whatever we want."

Don't forget Snoopy and the Rambo headband!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Long Time Gone]

Didn't want to bore everyone with ALL of the specifics. He even puts the d*mn snoopy on the dash in the sim. It's adhered with a bandaid. Wears the bandana in the sim also. Dork boy.

 

[LAMESAUCE]

interesting to see alpa spend money to get skywest pilots tied into the whole alpa gig. 2% of 2500 pilots making average of 50k/year is about 2.5 million dollars/year would sure give all those hard-working alpa secretaries/executives/whoever a nice bonus check.

wait, weren't alpa employees on strike since we weren't making enough money? hmm...

sounds like i need to buy stock in alpa.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Skywest pilots: Time to know what ALPA is and is not. ALPA is not managment. ALPA and Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. For some reason Skywest pilots think that ALPA ruins airlines? If so, they explain how and why? Keep in mind that a CBA is an agreement. With the RLA the company only has to agree. They are not forced. Why would a company agree to a contract that would put thier labor cost out of control?

Right now SW pilots have no voice. It is not that no one hears you, it is you have no lungs, throat, voice box and mouth to expell air to make noise in the form of words and sounds. You have no house. No office.

If you choose a union then you will get delivered to your property the nails, tools and raw materials to build your house. But YOU will have to build your house.

If you want the best materials for pilots then ALPA is your source.

ALPA is a resource not a service.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

P.S. When the Skywest pilots have an aciddent... will the NTSB include you?


From any given accident listing on the NTSB website.....

Parties to the investigation are the Air Line Pilot Association, Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, Federal Aviation Administration, Northwest Airlines Inc., and the Professional Flight Attendants Association

 

[ATR Pirate]

Now because many of the fence sitters have jumped over to the side of legal representation, they can all of a sudden talk about a raise again. I don't like being lied to, I could care less if we get a raise unless it's significant. I don't think it will be much in these times anyway.

I hope you don't think ALPA is going to get you a raise...if they do it won't be anything noticeable in your paycheck..we have a ton of great benefits for extra pay here at skywest...then it'll be in place for 3-4 years as a contract...THEN you'll have 4 years + of negotiations for another raise...ask an ASA guy when the last time they got a raise was? 7 years ago, and still no sun on the horizon...I would support an IN HOUSE union, just GOD forbid we get ALPA...

 

[ATR Pirate]

If you want the best materials for pilots then ALPA is your source.

ALPA is a resource not a service.

What a JOKE! ALPA is NOT the best materials for pilots......ALPA SUCKS

 

[sweptback]

I hope you don't think ALPA is going to get you a raise...if they do it won't be anything noticeable in your paycheck..we have a ton of great benefits for extra pay here at skywest...then it'll be in place for 3-4 years as a contract...THEN you'll have 4 years + of negotiations for another raise...ask an ASA guy when the last time they got a raise was? 7 years ago, and still no sun on the horizon...I would support an IN HOUSE union, just GOD forbid we get ALPA...

You are so amazingly clueless it isn't funny. I think the 12,000 hour SkyWest captain you're berating knows all about the "great benefits" and "extra pay" you get there junior.

Bonus question: if management wants to play obstructionist tactics to prevent any meaningful negotiations from taking place, what difference would it make if ALPA, Teamsters, or an in-house union was sitting on the other side of the table? The end result would be the same, no?

 

[Terrain Terrain]

the onlything ALPA will do at skywest will give you a 2% PAYCUTT right away!!

 

[CFIT]

Skywest pilots: Time to know what ALPA is and is not. ALPA is not managment. ALPA and Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. For some reason Skywest pilots think that ALPA ruins airlines? If so, they explain how and why? Keep in mind that a CBA is an agreement. With the RLA the company only has to agree. They are not forced. Why would a company agree to a contract that would put thier labor cost out of control?

Right now SW pilots have no voice. It is not that no one hears you, it is you have no lungs, throat, voice box and mouth to expell air to make noise in the form of words and sounds. You have no house. No office.

If you choose a union then you will get delivered to your property the nails, tools and raw materials to build your house. But YOU will have to build your house.

If you want the best materials for pilots then ALPA is your source.

ALPA is a resource not a service.

HELP ME, HELP ME, I have no voice or throat or thoarax, but I'm trying to build a Tuff Shed.....



So dramatic

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

HELP ME, HELP ME, I have no voice or throat or thoarax, but I'm trying to build a Tuff Shed.....



So dramatic

Well, at least it got your attention.

CFIT, your arguements against ALPA are from a position that ALPA is this organization that decides for you. Rather ALPA is more democratic than the US gov't.

ALPA is the resource. The car, the map, the gas, and support. However, the Skywest pilots will have to get in the car, work together and firgure how and where they want to go. Problem is, often, ALPA is brought on the property and pilots sit around and say "I'm not going to do it, you do it" and the organization gets a bad reputation. This is why ALPA wants to see some sort of an organized structure before before they go live.

CFIT- time to change your argurment. Get rid of the street education on unions and how they work and start debating the issues from reality. Your favored child status will not last forever. The RJ era is ending. The BK era is winding down.

When the music stops will the Skywest pilots have a say in their placement? In addition, the outside world is getting closer with foreign control and globalization. Do you have sound arguements as to how the SW pilots will be immune to these forces?

Simply put, the SW pilots are a state with no representative in Congress.
If the SW pilots had charges against them the District Attorny would be thier represntation.

You have no voice or if you do have one it doesn't have your sole intrest.

The time to "build your Ark" for the coming rain is now. Don't wait for the flood. Sorry for the biblical reference, but it is applicable.

 

[SkyNation]

ALPA is the resource. The car, the map, the gas, and support.

Sounds like the car is broken or breaking down, the map is useless, gas is running out and there is no support at most, if not all, ALPA regionals. Hmmmm, no thanks. Not a very good 'history' of the 'resource.'

However, the Skywest pilots will have to get in the car, work together and firgure how and where they want to go.

I want to work for a company that is strong now, prepared for the future 'rainy days,' and is nimble and willing to adjust to an ever changing and more competitive market. So far (without ALPA), I have those things.

Your favored child status will not last forever.

34 years plus and counting...........

When the music stops will the Skywest pilots have a say in their placement?

Will the ALPA regionals? Please give current examples of how union pilots at Mesaba, Comair, ASA, etc. are 'strong arming' their managements in having a say?

In addition, the outside world is getting closer with foreign control and globalization. Do you have sound arguements as to how the SW pilots will be immune to these forces?

Do you have equally strong, or better yet stronger arguments (since you're trying to sell this idea-don't burn down my house unless you can build me a better one) how union represented pilots will be immune to these forces?

The time to "build your Ark" for the coming rain is now. Don't wait for the flood. Sorry for the biblical reference, but it is applicable.

who is currently experiencing a 'flood' and who is 'rising above it' thanks to their 'ark'?

signed,
Former ALPA