SKYWEST Pilots: SAY NO TO ALPA!!

[sweptback]

I hope you don't think ALPA is going to get you a raise...if they do it won't be anything noticeable in your paycheck..we have a ton of great benefits for extra pay here at skywest...then it'll be in place for 3-4 years as a contract...THEN you'll have 4 years + of negotiations for another raise...ask an ASA guy when the last time they got a raise was? 7 years ago, and still no sun on the horizon...I would support an IN HOUSE union, just GOD forbid we get ALPA...

You are so amazingly clueless it isn't funny. I think the 12,000 hour SkyWest captain you're berating knows all about the "great benefits" and "extra pay" you get there junior.

Bonus question: if management wants to play obstructionist tactics to prevent any meaningful negotiations from taking place, what difference would it make if ALPA, Teamsters, or an in-house union was sitting on the other side of the table? The end result would be the same, no?

 

[Terrain Terrain]

the onlything ALPA will do at skywest will give you a 2% PAYCUTT right away!!

 

[CFIT]

Skywest pilots: Time to know what ALPA is and is not. ALPA is not managment. ALPA and Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. For some reason Skywest pilots think that ALPA ruins airlines? If so, they explain how and why? Keep in mind that a CBA is an agreement. With the RLA the company only has to agree. They are not forced. Why would a company agree to a contract that would put thier labor cost out of control?

Right now SW pilots have no voice. It is not that no one hears you, it is you have no lungs, throat, voice box and mouth to expell air to make noise in the form of words and sounds. You have no house. No office.

If you choose a union then you will get delivered to your property the nails, tools and raw materials to build your house. But YOU will have to build your house.

If you want the best materials for pilots then ALPA is your source.

ALPA is a resource not a service.

HELP ME, HELP ME, I have no voice or throat or thoarax, but I'm trying to build a Tuff Shed.....



So dramatic

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

HELP ME, HELP ME, I have no voice or throat or thoarax, but I'm trying to build a Tuff Shed.....



So dramatic

Well, at least it got your attention.

CFIT, your arguements against ALPA are from a position that ALPA is this organization that decides for you. Rather ALPA is more democratic than the US gov't.

ALPA is the resource. The car, the map, the gas, and support. However, the Skywest pilots will have to get in the car, work together and firgure how and where they want to go. Problem is, often, ALPA is brought on the property and pilots sit around and say "I'm not going to do it, you do it" and the organization gets a bad reputation. This is why ALPA wants to see some sort of an organized structure before before they go live.

CFIT- time to change your argurment. Get rid of the street education on unions and how they work and start debating the issues from reality. Your favored child status will not last forever. The RJ era is ending. The BK era is winding down.

When the music stops will the Skywest pilots have a say in their placement? In addition, the outside world is getting closer with foreign control and globalization. Do you have sound arguements as to how the SW pilots will be immune to these forces?

Simply put, the SW pilots are a state with no representative in Congress.
If the SW pilots had charges against them the District Attorny would be thier represntation.

You have no voice or if you do have one it doesn't have your sole intrest.

The time to "build your Ark" for the coming rain is now. Don't wait for the flood. Sorry for the biblical reference, but it is applicable.

 

[SkyNation]

ALPA is the resource. The car, the map, the gas, and support.

Sounds like the car is broken or breaking down, the map is useless, gas is running out and there is no support at most, if not all, ALPA regionals. Hmmmm, no thanks. Not a very good 'history' of the 'resource.'

However, the Skywest pilots will have to get in the car, work together and firgure how and where they want to go.

I want to work for a company that is strong now, prepared for the future 'rainy days,' and is nimble and willing to adjust to an ever changing and more competitive market. So far (without ALPA), I have those things.

Your favored child status will not last forever.

34 years plus and counting...........

When the music stops will the Skywest pilots have a say in their placement?

Will the ALPA regionals? Please give current examples of how union pilots at Mesaba, Comair, ASA, etc. are 'strong arming' their managements in having a say?

In addition, the outside world is getting closer with foreign control and globalization. Do you have sound arguements as to how the SW pilots will be immune to these forces?

Do you have equally strong, or better yet stronger arguments (since you're trying to sell this idea-don't burn down my house unless you can build me a better one) how union represented pilots will be immune to these forces?

The time to "build your Ark" for the coming rain is now. Don't wait for the flood. Sorry for the biblical reference, but it is applicable.

who is currently experiencing a 'flood' and who is 'rising above it' thanks to their 'ark'?

signed,
Former ALPA

 

[CFIT]

Well, at least it got your attention.

When the music stops will the Skywest pilots have a say in their placement? In addition, the outside world is getting closer with foreign control and globalization. Do you have sound arguements as to how the SW pilots will be immune to these forces?

Yes you have my attention.

But the fact of the matter is there is nothing you have mentioned that has not been solved with ALPA installed either.

SkyWest has been under the existing TA 18 months past what it set for but ASA has been doing the same thing for nearly 5 years and they have ALPA. ASA talks about greive programs that number in the thousands and admit that only the important ones are pursued, so obviously the CBA is more of a guideline than a policy, just like at SkyWest. Today's administration has completely nutered organized labor, management has found the key to breaking CBAs, and there is no way back from what I can see. Mesaba has been absolutly screwed by the justice system, and there isn't one thing ALPA can do about it, is it not the primary reason for representation? Following closely is Comair, the trail has been blazed.

Beyond that, it is blatant conflict of intrest for ALPA to represent a regional pilot group and tiered legacy above it, nothing less.

As far as foreign ownership and globalization, ALPA will have no say and no control over these issues, because if a contract is ratified at one airline that isn't impacted by it then it becomes the baseline for all the others.

From my perspective there is nothing ALPA can offer SkyWest.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds like the car is broken or breaking down, the map is useless, gas is running out and there is no support at most, if not all, ALPA regionals. Hmmmm, no thanks. Not a very good 'history' of the 'resource.'[/I]

Why do you think that the Car is immune from breaking down?
Do you think your car, oh wait you don't have one, but if you did would your car run perfect all f the time?



I want to work for a company that is strong now, prepared for the future 'rainy days,' and is nimble and willing to adjust to an ever changing and more competitive market. So far (without ALPA), I have those things.

Why would ALPA change that? ALPA doesn't control your business model. What specifically would ALPA do? Force management? How?

34 years plus and counting...........

And you've been apart of that for how long? What do the industry analysist say about the regional future?

Will the ALPA regionals? Please give current examples of how union pilots at Mesaba, Comair, ASA, etc. are 'strong arming' their managements in having a say?

Not sure they are strong arming anyone. Did ALPA force UAL and DAL into BK? Mesaba? Comair? Why is Comair in BK and not SW?



Do you have equally strong, or better yet stronger arguments (since you're trying to sell this idea-don't burn down my house unless you can build me a better one) how union represented pilots will be immune to these forces?

Immune? No. But able to resist. Yes. Are you able to resist? have a say? the SW pilots do not work with management. management speaks. SWs pilots do.

The ark reference has to do with the people laughing at Noah for building an ark. The people believed they were not going to be effected.

 

[AWACO]

You actaully believe in the ark?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes you have my attention.

But the fact of the matter is there is nothing you have mentioned that has not been solved with ALPA installed either.

Not sure if you realize what Mesabe ALPA has been doing. The judge said the company can impose terms. The company thought that would be all the leverage they needed. When ALPA and the other unions did not cry uncle to management, management realized they had to negotiate with ALPA.

At SW, managmeent doesn't need to wiat for a judge. They can impose whenever they like...

SkyWest has been under the existing TA 18 months past what it set for but ASA has been doing the same thing for nearly 5 years and they have ALPA. ASA talks about greive programs that number in the thousands and admit that only the important ones are pursued, so obviously the CBA is more of a guideline than a policy, just like at SkyWest. Today's administration has completely nutered organized labor, management has found the key to breaking CBAs, and there is no way back from what I can see. Mesaba has been absolutly screwed by the justice system, and there isn't one thing ALPA can do about it, is it not the primary reason for representation? Following closely is Comair, the trail has been blazed.

So it's ALPA fualt at ASA that their management doesn't obey the law and stick to the agreement?

Why is it that ALPA can't do a thing about? What can the SW pilots do about it? Do you even know how to file a legal brief? Serve an injuction? Do the SW pilots have 75 years of legal experience in the RLA?

Beyond that, it is blatant conflict of intrest for ALPA to represent a regional pilot group and tiered legacy above it, nothing less.

Common street education. This is false. Have been on the RJDC website?

As far as foreign ownership and globalization, ALPA will have no say and no control over these issues, because if a contract is ratified at one airline that isn't impacted by it then it becomes the baseline for all the others.

And you know this to be true becuase...why? You are a Utah pilot. What do you know about globalization? I don't know too much myself but I do know that ALPA knows about it. Pretty presumptious of you

From my perspective there is nothing ALPA can offer SkyWest.

That is the whole point. This is more than your perspective. this is about all of us. Not the SLC view, but the national and internation view. The real question is.. what does the SW pilot offer the industry. How do the SW pilots make the pilot profession better? What are the SW pilots doing to make this profession worthwhile?

What were the SW pilots contributions to LAHSO safety?

Perhaps you should look at it from a different prespective other than, what about me.

Question for you. Does ALPA have an international structure and presence?

There really is no analysis that indicates ALPA is the cause for the BK epidemic that plagues your parent carrier and others.

Have you read Hard Landing?

No member of the Mesaba Labor Coalition was left out to dry.
The coalition was very effective, credit Wychor(alpa), Rogat(afa) and Granath(amfa).
Bet unions at nwa wish they would have done it...

The strike issue became moot when Judge Dipsh** issued the strike injunction. Note, however, the level of support for us at the US
Courthouse last Thursdayat our picketing/protest/rally by over eight airlines, and by union leadership.
International ALPA also issued a hiring ban against mesaba management.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Follow up CFIT:

If you vote down union representation is there a concern that the message to management will be... "do what you will, we are yours"

 

[CFIT]

That is the whole point. This is more than your perspective. this is about all of us. Not the SLC view, but the national and internation view.

How is having a national or international view going to help pilots at SkyWest when the issues are germain to only our organization? Should we just use the ALPA viewpoint solve our central concerns, of course not.



The real question is.. what does the SW pilot offer the industry. How do the SW pilots make the pilot profession better? What are the SW pilots doing to make this profession worthwhile?

We have helped shape an airline that is one of the most successful today, gives ample employment and potential for growth to thousands of pilots. I know for a fact that some of our practices have been adopted at other carriers that have contributed to a safer operation.



What were the SW pilots contributions to LAHSO safety?

Probably nothing, we complied with the FAA HSAT like all the others that started the program after it was instilled.



Perhaps you should look at it from a different prespective other than, what about me.

Maybe I should but I think the issue of organized labor at SkyWest will not help anybody now including ASA.



Question for you. Does ALPA have an international structure and presence?

Probably, but I don't know how that helps at the regional level.



There really is no analysis that indicates ALPA is the cause for the BK epidemic that plagues your parent carrier and others.

Maybe there is, but who knows, from what it appears though it doesn't seem to help.



Have you read Hard Landing?

No I have not (but I've had a few).

The fact is that even if SkyWest were to vote in ALPA today it would be years before a contract could be developed that might help ASA, and that seems to be what you are after, isn't it? Would you wreck your airline for somebody else's gain?

I hope not.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How is having a national or international view going to help pilots at SkyWest when the issues are germain to only our organization? Should we just use the ALPA viewpoint solve our central concerns, of course not.

When the impact of international and globalization effects skywest pilots, a viewpoint is better than none.


We have helped shape an airline that is one of the most successful today, gives ample employment and potential for growth to thousands of pilots. I know for a fact that some of our practices have been adopted at other carriers that have contributed to a safer operation.

How have you helped shape it? by flying your trips? What I mean is, how have you addressed the issues as a pilot group?

What were the SW pilots contributions to LAHSO safety?

Probably nothing, we complied with the FAA HSAT like all the others that started the program after it was instilled.

ALPA was instrumental in coming up with a safe policy that allowed pilots to help ATC move airplanes effeciently and not give up safety. The FAA plan has serious concerns.

The point? ALPA pilots were part of creating policy whilst SW pilots simply complied with it. I don't know about you, but as a professional I want to be a part of policy creation, not just compliance.

Maybe I should but I think the issue of organized labor at SkyWest will not help anybody now including ASA.

Again, it is not only about SW and ASA. It is about all of us.


Probably, but I don't know how that helps at the regional level.

I believe you will find out in less than five years. Right now the many global alliances are down to three. Your pilots fly in two of those alliances; Skyteam and Star. Right now, the foreign airlines of Europe and Asia are economically strong. They may didcate terms to UAL and DAL. I don't think they will really care about the SW pilots (or any pilots really) when they do. The pilots of represented carriers will have a voice in those terms.

Maybe there is, but who knows, from what it appears though it doesn't seem to help.

Help whom? The carriers? No. The pilots. Yes.


No I have not (but I've had a few).

I have. There is no discussion that the problem with the airline industry is unions. Unions are organizations run by people. Any organization that is run by people, including families, is going make mistakes.


Why did FedEx and CAL come back to ALPA? How does your opinion of ALPA fit with FedEx. have you seen thier TA?


The fact is that even if SkyWest were to vote in ALPA today it would be years before a contract could be developed that might help ASA, and that seems to be what you are after, isn't it? Would you wreck your airline for somebody else's gain?

I hope not.
.

Would you wreck ASA for your gain?

 

[Terrain Terrain]

ASA was going to be sold to MESA or Skywest. I know that does not make it all better, but it could be a lot worse.

 

[SkyNation]

[/i]

The ark reference has to do with the people laughing at Noah for building an ark. The people believed they were not going to be effected.

umm, right. our 'ark' is weathering the storm, while arks that were built with 'ALPA's governance structure that ensures all pilots have a voice in all decisions that are made' (from skywestalpa.org) seem to not be fairing so well.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

umm, right. our 'ark' is weathering the storm, while arks that were built with 'ALPA's governance structure that ensures all pilots have a voice in all decisions that are made' (from skywestalpa.org) seem to not be fairing so well.

But yet you cannot or will not provide a reason why other ALPA carriers aren't doing well. Is it becuase of ALPA or managment. Did ALPA kill Braniff, Pan Am and Eastern? TWA? The history books are clear on this. Is Skywest doing well because they are sucking the life out of ASA?

In addition, if ALPA is so bad why did FedEx and CAL come back? Have you seen the FedEx TA? Which was approved by over 95%. What does that mean? Also, why aren't ALPA pilots decertifying ALPA at the BK carriers? Is it possbile that SW is coddled by management because SW is non union?

How is SWA so sucessful with a union?

Finally, you don't have an ark, you've a management team that fears unionization so they're careful to give you enough, but not what you really derserve. Your work rules and payrates are balanced from union contracts. Where I come from, that is not your own, that is being at the whim of another...

So either way you benefit from union contracts and the efforts of ALPA on Captitol Hill. You might as well contribute instead of feed off of.