SKYWEST Pilots: SAY NO TO ALPA!!

[Gr82Aviate]

What's ALPA going to do? How are the guys at Mesaba doing? I think Duane Worthless described it as "indentured servitude". Is that the help ALPA gave them?

Or how about Comair, Delta, United, or any other carrier that went into BK. The reality is that management has figured out ow to circumvent organized labor on virtually every front. Organized labor hasn't won any significant battle in years and the clowns at ALPA are worse yet other than walking in holding patterns, they havn't done squat.

Globalization and Brand Alliances, management is going to do whatever has the best return. Scope settings and equipment shift will happen and be complete long before ALPA can do one damthing about it. Management will find a loop hole in the CBA and transfer everything they want. ALPA will grieve it but it will not stand. The next CBA will have wording in it, via concession of somthing else like pay, but then it will be too late.


In 5 years, is ASA any better off? They have been holding off for the "pie in the sky" contract and only recently has momentum begun to accept reality that that probably wont happen. Who knows where this industry will be in 5 years? Could flurish and grow, or one giant terroist attack or oil hits $125 a barrel or bird flu or who knows..........

When does ASA hit the 5 year mark themselves?????

So then, I guess your solution is to roll over and play dead? All I ever see is you putting down ALPA, but you don't offer any other viable way to get management to negotiate fairly! Or is everything just perfect in your opinion?

 

[Hootie9750]

Alpa doesn't give a crap about any regional. And yes every ASA transfer that I have talked to hates ALPA. I'm not opposed to an in house union, but ALPA isn't worth sh!t.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Alpa doesn't give a crap about any regional. And yes every ASA transfer that I have talked to hates ALPA. I'm not opposed to an in house union, but ALPA isn't worth sh!t.

The in house union thing was tried...didn't get the nod here!

 

[CFIT]

So then, I guess your solution is to roll over and play dead? All I ever see is you putting down ALPA, but you don't offer any other viable way to get management to negotiate fairly! Or is everything just perfect in your opinion?

If you are saying that the only alternative is either " play dead" or ALPA, then I'd say you're wrong. From what you are saying is there is no way to have a working relationship with management without a CBA, again, I'd say you are wrong. Managment will do only what they have to do to sustain the business, until it becomes a battle. Then it becomes a fight, and, by human nature it becomes a fight they want to win. If you want to negotiate, do it on a local level. If you want to fight then bring in LEC's, MEC's, CNC's, he!! bring in the whole alphabet, but don't expect to have a harmonious relationship with management.

It's like bringing a lawyer with a pre-nup on your first date.

And there is no way ALPA can look after the regionals and the majors with the same intrest, they may say "trust us" but their hands are on your hips.....

 

[CFIT]

The in house union thing was tried...didn't get the nod here!

If SAPA is called the "sophmoric student council" representation then the last in house union program was refered to as "Blinkies Clown Fun House" type of program. It appears as though the current drive is seen as the same.

 

[Doberman]

wow, if soo many of you candy aS experts are so anti-union, then please explain your idea of utopia. Lets hear it....because it is not SAPA (Sorry aS Pilot A.) Just like recently when BH stated "don't forget who you work for". Oh yea, that one didn't make it on the sapa update.

We are only as good as our people we elect...either way. But you seem to be against a democracy...well guess what...you are in the wrong country! Go join North Korea with the rest of the communists. There is nothing wrong with representation and we are not getting that now...so I say again...if not ALPA then what. I am all ears.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If you are saying that the only alternative is either " play dead" or ALPA, then I'd say you're wrong. From what you are saying is there is no way to have a working relationship with management without a CBA, again, I'd say you are wrong. Managment will do only what they have to do to sustain the business, until it becomes a battle. Then it becomes a fight, and, by human nature it becomes a fight they want to win. If you want to negotiate, do it on a local level. If you want to fight then bring in LEC's, MEC's, CNC's, he!! bring in the whole alphabet, but don't expect to have a harmonious relationship with management.

It's like bringing a lawyer with a pre-nup on your first date.

And there is no way ALPA can look after the regionals and the majors with the same intrest, they may say "trust us" but their hands are on your hips.....

So, I'll ask you again....what's your solution? I never said "playing dead or ALPA" were the only solutions, I asked what YOUR solution might be?????

 

[SkyNation]

So, I'll ask you again....what's your solution? I never said "playing dead or ALPA" were the only solutions, I asked what YOUR solution might be?????

what's yours? what 'solution' will ALPA provide us? will this 'solution' provide us with:

-more money?
-more opportunities?
-more ability to compete for future opportunities?

and after this 'solution' is applied, will we find ourselves:

-earning more than other regionals?
-enjoying sustained growth?
-at the top of the regional industry?

gosh, if it can give us all that, I'll bet pilots from other regionals will really be lining up to come over here!

.....oh, wait

 

[Gr82Aviate]

what's yours? what 'solution' will ALPA provide us? will this 'solution' provide us with:

-more money?
-more opportunities?
-more ability to compete for future opportunities?

and after this 'solution' is applied, will we find ourselves:

-earning more than other regionals?
-enjoying sustained growth?
-at the top of the regional industry?

gosh, if it can give us all that, I'll bet pilots from other regionals will really be lining up to come over here!

.....oh, wait

So, since you've got all the answers what's your suggestion to getting a reasonable offer from management here? I don't feel 1.2% quite covers the last 6 1/2 years with no cost of living increase...maybe you do? Then again you probably just started so you haven't enjoyed getting no increase at all for almost 7 years!

 

[atrdriver]

Look, if Southwest had ALPA, do you think they would be a success today? Just a question for you serious ALPA woodies out there. I mean I don't really care either way.

Yes, I believe that SWA would be successful today regardless of who their union was, simply because their management learned long ago that treating employees as their greatest assets is the way to success. A union, regardless of which one, is only an adversary to management if management wants them to be.

 

[atrdriver]

What's ALPA going to do? How are the guys at Mesaba doing? I think Duane Worthless described it as "indentured servitude". Is that the help ALPA gave them?

Or how about Comair, Delta, United, or any other carrier that went into BK.

And what do you think would have happened to ANY of these carriers had the pilots NOT been represented by a union? They would have voided the contracts without having to go to court, and there would have been no recourse. As it is there is a legal process, and an unhappy outcome for the union can be appealed. Without a union there is nothing stopping management from doing exactly as they please.

 

[atrdriver]

ALPA pissed in my wheaties every day for the last year! Everyone knows ASA pilots are dropping out like flies. I tried to believe ALPA was going to do something..I was optimistic just like the rest of you ASA guys still holding out for your dream contract...wake up and smell the coffee..When I resigned on the 9th of a previous month..I was the 40th person to have left THAT MONTH. ASA's chief pilots and secretaries told me I'd be an idiot to stay here (at ASA)...Now not everyone of those people leaving are going to SkyWest..but there were 7 in the class ahead, and several in mine, and several who couldn't make it. Thats just in the last 3 weeks worth of classes...just keep watching your pilot group get smaller and smaller over there...then you'll hire just to keep the planes flying, not to grow..Hey I'm not trying to piss anyone off..I'm just saying..ALPA doesn't do crap for you...

No moron, management pissed in your wheaties. ALPA tried it's best to protect you from it, yet all you did was bitch and moan and call them the enemy. You are so blinded by your hate for a bunch of hard working volunteers that you can't see that it is management who has run this airline into the ground.

 

[Bizjet]

If you are saying that the only alternative is either " play dead" or ALPA, then I'd say you're wrong. From what you are saying is there is no way to have a working relationship with management without a CBA, again, I'd say you are wrong. Managment will do only what they have to do to sustain the business, until it becomes a battle. Then it becomes a fight, and, by human nature it becomes a fight they want to win. If you want to negotiate, do it on a local level. If you want to fight then bring in LEC's, MEC's, CNC's, he!! bring in the whole alphabet, but don't expect to have a harmonious relationship with management.

It's like bringing a lawyer with a pre-nup on your first date.

And there is no way ALPA can look after the regionals and the majors with the same intrest, they may say "trust us" but their hands are on your hips.....

You are not unlike spinless whimps at any airline union or nonunion. I guess when JA decided not to negotiate a 70 seat rate you were first in line to praise him and say that he had his fingers crossed when he made that promise. If you came home early from a trip and walked into your bedroom and found your wife in bed with JA you would apologize to him for not knocking first. "Yesser boss man I knew you were only giving her a first class flight physical--I justa hoping that yo physicals are covered by the company insurance! I understand why you are so upset with me because I have not read the employment contract that give you da rite to screw with everything I have. I hope my anti-union postings over on Flight Info make up for my stupidity."

 

[hoover]

HMMM. Doesn't it take 2 or more to communicate.

SWA seems to do a good job and they are union.

Yes it does. But if communication isn't happening in a non-union situation, it sure as hell isn't going to happen if a union is involved.

Another observation I have made during my career is, at the best companies, management and labor have a genuine interest in working together for the betterment of all. Each party may have its own personal agenda, but both sides recognize that it is better to work with the other side, rather than against them. Southwest is a perfect example of that

The worse companies to work for are companies where management and labor put their own interests ahead, rather than alongside, the common agenda of having a successful profitable company.

As far as Skywest goes, I have no idea what it is like there. But it seems to me that it has lasted over 30 years and been very succesfull. It continues to be a desired place to work for many. For 30 years pilots have chosen not to unionize. There must be a reason for that.

One last thought. The main drive for a union seems to be because they have a single pay rate for 50, 70, and 90 seaters. At most we are talking a few bucks an hour. Is that one issue really that big a deal, in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Dubya]

Yes, I believe that SWA would be successful today regardless of who their union was, simply because their management learned long ago that treating employees as their greatest assets is the way to success. A union, regardless of which one, is only an adversary to management if management wants them to be.

It's really hard sitting on the fence with this issue. I think it's an electric fence. Reading all of the rants for one side or the other doesn't help at all. In my eyes it's obvious we need representation at SkyWest...but I look at ALPA and see nothing but problems. What is the union at Southwest..inhouse? Why is it that they are not chastised for not being ALPA? This whole issue stinks like a dead skunk.

W