SKYWEST Pilots: SAY NO TO ALPA!!

[CFIT]

What are the skywest pilots going to do about bankruptcy laws?
What are Skywest pilots going to do about globlization and brand alliances?

Skywest pilots: The world is not Salt Lake City or St. George. At some point you will have to deal with what is coming over the horizon. Things may be fine now, but what do you want to be in five years?

What's ALPA going to do? How are the guys at Mesaba doing? I think Duane Worthless described it as "indentured servitude". Is that the help ALPA gave them?

Or how about Comair, Delta, United, or any other carrier that went into BK. The reality is that management has figured out ow to circumvent organized labor on virtually every front. Organized labor hasn't won any significant battle in years and the clowns at ALPA are worse yet other than walking in holding patterns, they havn't done squat.

Globalization and Brand Alliances, management is going to do whatever has the best return. Scope settings and equipment shift will happen and be complete long before ALPA can do one damthing about it. Management will find a loop hole in the CBA and transfer everything they want. ALPA will grieve it but it will not stand. The next CBA will have wording in it, via concession of somthing else like pay, but then it will be too late.


In 5 years, is ASA any better off? They have been holding off for the "pie in the sky" contract and only recently has momentum begun to accept reality that that probably wont happen. Who knows where this industry will be in 5 years? Could flurish and grow, or one giant terroist attack or oil hits $125 a barrel or bird flu or who knows..........

When does ASA hit the 5 year mark themselves?????

 

[Clark W.]

for ALPA to represent both regional and majors is a contridiction.
ALPA needs to keep it's business with the Majors and the Majors only. They do better protecting Fed Ex 727 crews who avoid checklist and run off the runway, than they do regional pilots for less.

 

[DrewBlows]

What's ALPA going to do? How are the guys at Mesaba doing? I think Duane Worthless described it as "indentured servitude". Is that the help ALPA gave them?

Mesaba (and Northwest) managment drove the company into the ground. A bankruptcy court judge ruled to make them "indentured servants". Without ALPA, Mesaba wouldn't have had to go to court, they could have just unilaterally imposed cuts. Consequentially, they wouldn't have had to take such big pay cuts, because they wouldn't have been making nearly as much to begin with. If taking a smaller paycut in bankruptcy is your goal, then I guess non-union is the way to go.

Or how about Comair, Delta, United, or any other carrier that went into BK.

I wonder if the Delta Flight Attendants would have liked to been union while dealing with bankruptcy? I guess they don't have time to think about it during their nine hour break following their CVG-JFK-SAN (8:30) day.

 

[ATR Pirate]

What an ignorant rant! Who pissed in your wheaties this morning? 100s of guys leaving ASA to go to SKYW huh. Don't think so. There is a good amount going but it's not in the 100s.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

ALPA pissed in my wheaties every day for the last year! Everyone knows ASA pilots are dropping out like flies. I tried to believe ALPA was going to do something..I was optimistic just like the rest of you ASA guys still holding out for your dream contract...wake up and smell the coffee..When I resigned on the 9th of a previous month..I was the 40th person to have left THAT MONTH. ASA's chief pilots and secretaries told me I'd be an idiot to stay here (at ASA)...Now not everyone of those people leaving are going to SkyWest..but there were 7 in the class ahead, and several in mine, and several who couldn't make it. Thats just in the last 3 weeks worth of classes...just keep watching your pilot group get smaller and smaller over there...then you'll hire just to keep the planes flying, not to grow..Hey I'm not trying to piss anyone off..I'm just saying..ALPA doesn't do crap for you...

 

[www.]

Twice in my life I worked for a non-union carrier that went union. I can tell you from firsthand experience that having a union never solves the problems that the rank-and-file expect it to solve. I am not talking about OT pay or scheduling rules or stuff like that. I am talking about communication. The main problem that exists in companies that go union is a lack of meaningful communication. A union doesn't solve that problem. It makes it worse.

HMMM. Doesn't it take 2 or more to communicate.

SWA seems to do a good job and they are union.

 

[www.]

I'm not pro ALPA, believe me. However, in the case of a lawyer and a union, I look at it this way: If Alex Burdette can keep his job after the crap he pulled, you can get away with anything here. Not that I would do anything intentionally like he did.

Which part? The tennis shoes that Chromer gave him written permisson to wear or the FFDO thing?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Do you anti-ALPA whiners truly believe that ALPA can just go to the company, or the bankruptcy judge, and say "no, we are not going to take any paycuts?". Or "no, you must keep these aircraft on our property?". Or tell the mothership that you must keep the flying we are doing with us? If that is what you believe, then you have no clue as to how an airline operates, or what the role of ALPA is concerning your career. ALPA is there to help you if you have a problem renewing your medical. ALPA is there for when some manager who never flies the line tries to discipline or fire you because of a percieved 'lack of judgement'. ALPA is there to assist in the negotiation and enforcement of employment contracts. ALPA conducts research into improving the safety of airline travel.

But ALPA does not control the operation or finances of the airline, so don't expect something of them that is outside of their purview.

And to you, ATR Pirate, your 2000 hrs really makes you an authority on the subject. Try doing something for your fellow pilots, instead of taking the lazy way out. Oh, looks like you already did.

Peace.

Rekks.

 

[gcaflyer]

ASA's chief pilots and secretaries told me I'd be an idiot to stay here (at ASA)...

Please tell me specifically who said this you can PM me if you don't want to post it. Otherwise, I call BS. I know most of the CP's and can't think of one (even behind closed doors) that would say that.

 

[Bizjet]

ALPA pissed in my wheaties every day for the last year! Everyone knows ASA pilots are dropping out like flies. I tried to believe ALPA was going to do something..I was optimistic just like the rest of you ASA guys still holding out for your dream contract...wake up and smell the coffee..When I resigned on the 9th of a previous month..I was the 40th person to have left THAT MONTH. ASA's chief pilots and secretaries told me I'd be an idiot to stay here (at ASA)...Now not everyone of those people leaving are going to SkyWest..but there were 7 in the class ahead, and several in mine, and several who couldn't make it. Thats just in the last 3 weeks worth of classes...just keep watching your pilot group get smaller and smaller over there...then you'll hire just to keep the planes flying, not to grow..Hey I'm not trying to piss anyone off..I'm just saying..ALPA doesn't do crap for you...

Bye. One whiner down and a few more to go.

 

[AV8700]

Last class was 7 ASA. The curent class is 3. The 4-6 more could not come do to ASA staffing needs. That is what I heard.

I know that there have been plenty to leave for Skywest but no way could applicants be denied based on ASA staffing issues.

Those that have left were very junior at ASA anyway and may have left to chase the upgrade. A risky move, had we taken the paycuts the shoe would be on your foot. Your not immune

 

[Gr82Aviate]

What's ALPA going to do? How are the guys at Mesaba doing? I think Duane Worthless described it as "indentured servitude". Is that the help ALPA gave them?

Or how about Comair, Delta, United, or any other carrier that went into BK. The reality is that management has figured out ow to circumvent organized labor on virtually every front. Organized labor hasn't won any significant battle in years and the clowns at ALPA are worse yet other than walking in holding patterns, they havn't done squat.

Globalization and Brand Alliances, management is going to do whatever has the best return. Scope settings and equipment shift will happen and be complete long before ALPA can do one damthing about it. Management will find a loop hole in the CBA and transfer everything they want. ALPA will grieve it but it will not stand. The next CBA will have wording in it, via concession of somthing else like pay, but then it will be too late.


In 5 years, is ASA any better off? They have been holding off for the "pie in the sky" contract and only recently has momentum begun to accept reality that that probably wont happen. Who knows where this industry will be in 5 years? Could flurish and grow, or one giant terroist attack or oil hits $125 a barrel or bird flu or who knows..........

When does ASA hit the 5 year mark themselves?????

So then, I guess your solution is to roll over and play dead? All I ever see is you putting down ALPA, but you don't offer any other viable way to get management to negotiate fairly! Or is everything just perfect in your opinion?

 

[Hootie9750]

Alpa doesn't give a crap about any regional. And yes every ASA transfer that I have talked to hates ALPA. I'm not opposed to an in house union, but ALPA isn't worth sh!t.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Alpa doesn't give a crap about any regional. And yes every ASA transfer that I have talked to hates ALPA. I'm not opposed to an in house union, but ALPA isn't worth sh!t.

The in house union thing was tried...didn't get the nod here!

 

[CFIT]

So then, I guess your solution is to roll over and play dead? All I ever see is you putting down ALPA, but you don't offer any other viable way to get management to negotiate fairly! Or is everything just perfect in your opinion?

If you are saying that the only alternative is either " play dead" or ALPA, then I'd say you're wrong. From what you are saying is there is no way to have a working relationship with management without a CBA, again, I'd say you are wrong. Managment will do only what they have to do to sustain the business, until it becomes a battle. Then it becomes a fight, and, by human nature it becomes a fight they want to win. If you want to negotiate, do it on a local level. If you want to fight then bring in LEC's, MEC's, CNC's, he!! bring in the whole alphabet, but don't expect to have a harmonious relationship with management.

It's like bringing a lawyer with a pre-nup on your first date.

And there is no way ALPA can look after the regionals and the majors with the same intrest, they may say "trust us" but their hands are on your hips.....

 

[CFIT]

The in house union thing was tried...didn't get the nod here!

If SAPA is called the "sophmoric student council" representation then the last in house union program was refered to as "Blinkies Clown Fun House" type of program. It appears as though the current drive is seen as the same.

 

[Doberman]

wow, if soo many of you candy aS experts are so anti-union, then please explain your idea of utopia. Lets hear it....because it is not SAPA (Sorry aS Pilot A.) Just like recently when BH stated "don't forget who you work for". Oh yea, that one didn't make it on the sapa update.

We are only as good as our people we elect...either way. But you seem to be against a democracy...well guess what...you are in the wrong country! Go join North Korea with the rest of the communists. There is nothing wrong with representation and we are not getting that now...so I say again...if not ALPA then what. I am all ears.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If you are saying that the only alternative is either " play dead" or ALPA, then I'd say you're wrong. From what you are saying is there is no way to have a working relationship with management without a CBA, again, I'd say you are wrong. Managment will do only what they have to do to sustain the business, until it becomes a battle. Then it becomes a fight, and, by human nature it becomes a fight they want to win. If you want to negotiate, do it on a local level. If you want to fight then bring in LEC's, MEC's, CNC's, he!! bring in the whole alphabet, but don't expect to have a harmonious relationship with management.

It's like bringing a lawyer with a pre-nup on your first date.

And there is no way ALPA can look after the regionals and the majors with the same intrest, they may say "trust us" but their hands are on your hips.....

So, I'll ask you again....what's your solution? I never said "playing dead or ALPA" were the only solutions, I asked what YOUR solution might be?????

 

[SkyNation]

So, I'll ask you again....what's your solution? I never said "playing dead or ALPA" were the only solutions, I asked what YOUR solution might be?????

what's yours? what 'solution' will ALPA provide us? will this 'solution' provide us with:

-more money?
-more opportunities?
-more ability to compete for future opportunities?

and after this 'solution' is applied, will we find ourselves:

-earning more than other regionals?
-enjoying sustained growth?
-at the top of the regional industry?

gosh, if it can give us all that, I'll bet pilots from other regionals will really be lining up to come over here!

.....oh, wait

 

[Gr82Aviate]

what's yours? what 'solution' will ALPA provide us? will this 'solution' provide us with:

-more money?
-more opportunities?
-more ability to compete for future opportunities?

and after this 'solution' is applied, will we find ourselves:

-earning more than other regionals?
-enjoying sustained growth?
-at the top of the regional industry?

gosh, if it can give us all that, I'll bet pilots from other regionals will really be lining up to come over here!

.....oh, wait

So, since you've got all the answers what's your suggestion to getting a reasonable offer from management here? I don't feel 1.2% quite covers the last 6 1/2 years with no cost of living increase...maybe you do? Then again you probably just started so you haven't enjoyed getting no increase at all for almost 7 years!

 

[atrdriver]

Look, if Southwest had ALPA, do you think they would be a success today? Just a question for you serious ALPA woodies out there. I mean I don't really care either way.

Yes, I believe that SWA would be successful today regardless of who their union was, simply because their management learned long ago that treating employees as their greatest assets is the way to success. A union, regardless of which one, is only an adversary to management if management wants them to be.