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You stay classy Linden Hillman

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Defensive? How's that exactly?

The overblown reaction to the letter

1) The letter you claim was fabricated and were wrong about?

2) "I smell bullshat" FAIL

3) "It's funny when people who have no clue as to what the hell they're talking about, post as if they do." Whoops!

4) "Some of you sound like such children. Grow up."

5) "Your lack of maturity is an embarrassment to yourself"

That, boy, is exactly what I am referring to. Congrats on your winning lottery ticket. I am legitimately happy for my friends at AirTran.
 
Offer the trannies a staple. Take it or leave it. Bet they all vote to take it.

Done.

I predict that SWA and SWAPA will soon tire of all the back and forth nonsense.
 
You get a better company, pay, benefits, bases, etc.

How long have you been in the airline biz? I ask because you post as if things never change. The SWA contract has an ammendable date, a seniority number does not. If things go badly for SWA, the first thing to go will be the pilot contract that I gave up seniority to get. No thanks. Aples to Oranges comparison. It's a known (seniority) v.s. a variable (Contract). like I said before, arbitrators know this and in the past have given very little weight to differences in contracts

What does SWA get? Please do not say aircraft, ATL, growth, etc. They bought that.

They get a growth and seniority advancement that they wouldn't have had otherwise, they get a larger profit sharing check, they get 27hr layovers in the Carribbean and Cancun. BTW, the pilots didn't buy us.

If SWA gives SWAPA a raise you will get that also. You get everything they get plus all the benefits they already have.

What if they give concessions in 5 years from now, will I get that too? Think that will never happen? Talk to guys fron UAL/DAL/UsAir. SWA guys were leaving in droves to go to those airlines 10 years ago when the SWA contract was the anchor of the major airline industry.

My point is, things change in this business, seniority, not so much. Arbitrators know this. Apples to oranges my friend.
 
In the end, we'll reach an agreement that will pass on both sides (yeah, right) or it will go to arbitration. Scare tactics don't work, but feel free to continue if it makes you feel good.

I hear you guys are commenting internally about not even negotiating; but just going straight to arbitration. Regardless of the comments on this forum, the two sides agreed to negotiate. Do you not support your team's efforts?

You want to say, "Give us relative, or we'll see u in arbitration." Real nice.

Btw, how's the weather in SW FL?
 
How long have you been in the airline biz? I ask because you post as if things never change. The SWA contract has an ammendable date, a seniority number does not. If things go badly for SWA, the first thing to go will be the pilot contract that I gave up seniority to get. No thanks. Aples to Oranges comparison. It's a known (seniority) v.s. a variable (Contract). like I said before, arbitrators know this and in the past have given very little weight to differences in contracts



They get a growth and seniority advancement that they wouldn't have had otherwise, they get a larger profit sharing check, they get 27hr layovers in the Carribbean and Cancun. BTW, the pilots didn't buy us.



What if they give concessions in 5 years from now, will I get that too? Think that will never happen? Talk to guys fron UAL/DAL/UsAir. SWA guys were leaving in droves to go to those airlines 10 years ago when the SWA contract was the anchor of the major airline industry.

My point is, things change in this business, seniority, not so much. Arbitrators know this. Apples to oranges my friend.

You ask how long I have been in the airline business. I am not in yet. I graduate from High School in 2 years. I hope that doesn't make you feel like a jerk because you debate a high school student. Good Luck. I think you need it.
 
Yes, after several phone calls and internal message board posts from our pilots about it, the AirTran ALPA MEC put out a statement yesterday on our message board about the letter (which actually happened several weeks ago, shortly after the PA was signed, which is what I figured), detailing how it came up, what the letter said, and how it was received.

The AirTran ALPA MEC received a pleasant letter back from MV stating that yes, it had been a wording error in the initial press release after the Process Agreement was signed. That's all ALPA really wanted, to make sure that SWA management agreed with the Process Agreement for what happens after arbitration in the same way ALPA interpreted it, which the MV reply letter clearly states that they do.

Yes, the letter asked for a public retraction. No, ALPA didn't get it. My personal opinion: ALPA then knew better than to push their luck, had what they needed legally by written mutual agreement of what happens after arbitration concerning the integration process, and decided not to further rock the boat. End of story. Should ALPA have written the letter? Absolutely. Would I have asked for a public retraction in the initial letter? No. But I don't get a vote. ;)

However, methinks that MV got about as upset about that letter as BJ did at SWAPA over the grievance regarding the nose art sticker; both were probably a little annoyed and that was likely the end of it, but as always in "the turbine turns", both stories seem to have taken on a life of their own at our respective companies.

Most people dismiss rumors of "excessively angry management" as just rumor unless said management goes on the public record about it, just as SWA guys have about the BJ "nose art angst" rumor. I would think that both MV and BJ are probably much more even-keeled guys than that, it's just business after all, but I could be wrong... it's happened before.

Just another slow news day... ;)

You ATN guys are hillarious! Lear comes on to say he read a thread on your forum saying everything is cool, so you just believe it. Will your MEC Chair admit he screwed up with that letter? NO! Has he even engaged y'all regarding the letter? I bet not. He is too busy firing committee guys and directing your MC to bother.

Don't take Lear's opinion. Ask to see the letter for yourselves. Then see if Lear's summary jives with the truth.
 
You ATN guys are hillarious! Lear comes on to say he read a thread on your forum saying everything is cool, so you just believe it. Will your MEC Chair admit he screwed up with that letter? NO! Has he even engaged y'all regarding the letter? I bet not. He is too busy firing committee guys a

While I have never seen an AAI pilot come on here and comment about SWAPA's internal affairs, there is no shortage of SWA pilots who seem to think that they are free to comment on ATN71 matters.

No one cares what you think about our union, but if you want to guarantee this thing goes to arbitration, just keep poking your finger in our eye. . . . .

Be careful what you ask for, though. :erm:
 
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I do not think I need to post his name and you do not need to ask. Everybody knows.
Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to me... I wouldn't want to assume the worst of someone I've never met.

I figured you weren't referring to me anyway, what with all the positive letters of commendation in my PRIA file from the V.P. of H.R. on down to the Chief Pilot's office here at AAI for everything from flying skills to professionalism to customer service.

Thankfully the 3 senior managers responsible for the only blip on my entire flying record at ANY job are either gone, soon to be gone, and/or likely returning to the line when the integration is complete, but I just wanted to make sure before I responded.

You have yourself a great day out there, mkay? ;)
 
Just wanted to make sure you weren't referring to me... I wouldn't want to assume the worst of someone I've never met.

I figured you weren't referring to me anyway, what with all the positive letters of commendation in my PRIA file from the V.P. of H.R. on down to the Chief Pilot's office here at AAI for everything from flying skills to professionalism to customer service.

Thankfully the 3 senior managers responsible for the only blip on my entire flying record at ANY job are either gone, soon to be gone, and/or likely returning to the line when the integration is complete, but I just wanted to make sure before I responded.

You have yourself a great day out there, mkay? ;)

You sound like you are trying to convince me. If you think I was talking about you then you need to convince SWA, not me. It sounds like you are guilty. I would not respond anymore to this because otherwise it will create a life of its own.
 
You ATN guys are hillarious! Lear comes on to say he read a thread on your forum saying everything is cool, so you just believe it.
Ummm,,, it's not about what I posted. They don't have to believe me... they heard it directly from the horse's mouth on our internal forum before they came over here and read what I reposted for our esteemed future SWA coworkers, so please don't think they're just responding based on what I said alone. :)

Will your MEC Chair admit he screwed up with that letter? NO! Has he even engaged y'all regarding the letter? I bet not. He is too busy firing committee guys and directing your MC to bother.
Actually, the Vice Chair responded for him (he does all our web board communicating for the MEC), and the pilots are pretty broadly supporting the letter. I'm still trying to figure out why so many of the SWA pilots are trying to instill discourse between the AAI pilots and ALPA. It's just not going to happen and only aggravates people.

Don't take Lear's opinion. Ask to see the letter for yourselves. Then see if Lear's summary jives with the truth.
I doubt the MEC is going to release much of anything. They've pretty much gone into information lock-down mode since the SLI started, and there's honestly just not enough angst about it among our pilot group. To us, it's a non-issue between ALPA and SWA management. It was addressed by the pilot group. The MEC answered. There doesn't seem to be any animosity out of it from SWA management, seeing as they just sent all of us SWA coins and a very nice letter to go along with it well AFTER the letter in question was written and responded to by MV, so the VAST majority of the pilots are still content to let the process work as agreed.

I could be wrong about the mood of our pilot group, but that's what I'm seeing in both the MCO and ATL crew rooms as well as our internal message board. It's just doing the job, having a good time, discussing some of the SLI possibilities privately amongst ourselves at work, and going home to family; business as usual, sit back and wait.

Really there's no animosity on our side of the table. Hope you guys have a great day out there, wherever you may be. :beer:
 
You sound like you are trying to convince me. If you think I was talking about you then you need to convince SWA, not me. It sounds like you are guilty. I would not respond anymore to this because otherwise it will create a life of its own.
Not worried about it. Just trying to clarify who you were referring to.

You take care now... ;)
 
If a quick upgrade is so important, you should have come to AT.

Upshot for SWA FO's is actually getting to upgrade sometime in the future. You had an indefinite hold prior to the AT deal. read my tag line below, your own boss said it. With Airtan out of the way you'll actually get a chance to upgrade. You're welcome.

Standby let me quote GK again after the DOJ sells job.


I’ll just reiterate to them my respect and admiration for what they’ve accomplished over 17 years, the fact that they are such a great airline. It’s one of the reasons we wanted to acquire them. That on a combined basis, they’ll be much stronger and have opportunities to grow their airline, whereas without Southwest, they wouldn’t, quite frankly.

Capt, I would of upgraded just through attrition. Also to have 1700 young dudes injected in front of us, thats the problem. Your welcome? What BS is that. Have you seen AT's financials. They where in the shizter. A FO at SWA or a failing company in the long run. You chose. Future growth! LOL! We hope! You have to understand something Captain, you can't sell that BS to us. I will say without us you would have been out on the street in the long run. Why in the hell do you think your shareholders sold you out. Your not the white horse, but only the Smarty Jones that couldn't make it to the finish line. It's all good. You may lose your captain seat and may keep it. Heck I might be your capt. You have know idea what will happen, neither do I. But thanks to SWA you get to feed your family.
 

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