You might be a "Kernal"

[humveedriver]

Blaming me for this devolving into military vs civilian breaks down when you see SWA put classes with 85% military.

And it's not civilians looking down on military
It's the other way around

Those guys are looking at never upgrading. Last 5 years of their career maybe, if being on reserve is worth it. The key is they are retired military. SWA doesn't want to see new hires split for the legacies ( I hate to say it because its GL bait).
I think the pool of financially stable 40+ year olds with lots of flying time favours the military vs the civilian side. I think the late 30's, early 40's RJ crowd has SWA as the number 3 or 4 pick now compared to 5 years ago. Frankly I enjoyed flying with the retired Delta guys and retired military types. Money was never an issue and they were just happy to be there. So if I had to chose between being asked if I was old enough to have pilots license, or hearing 4 days of where is my 3 year upgrade? I'll take the old man ?

 

[waveflyer]

26 out of 30 humvee

26/30

That's an overreach

 

[SWA Bubba]

26 out of 30 humvee

26/30

That's an overreach

So why does it bug you so much? And clearly, it does. You started this thread, and have made the most anti-military generalizations. Do you think if a new-hire class was 26 out of 30 civilian-trained instead, that the former military guys should whine about it? Who gives a crap-- as long as they're behind us on the seniority list, who cares where they got their training?

Bubba

 

[Flyer1015]

There are difficult things in aviation and things that are not so difficult. You were talking about skill transfer. Flying a stabilized approach to a carrier in a jet, even if it is single engine presents a much greater difficulty than flying a stabilized 10 mile straight in in a 737. It only becomes difficult or dangerous of you screw it up so badly that you ignore a myriad of automated calls and visual indications that you are screwing up.

A carrier pilot does not have those luxuries not to mention the runways we land on seldom move. What the cockpit of an airliner does is takes much of the skill required through automation. What the carrier trained pilot has going for him is if the automation fails he is already accustomed to using manual skills and can quickly process spatial relationships. There is where the skill transfer comes in. Your typical RJ pilot may not have the manual flying skills to complement your amazing ability when the chips are down. The Colgan accident probably serves as a good example of this.

Who would you want in an upset situation like the Colgan or Air France accidents. A guy that received a 3 hour sim course, or a person with extensive training in aerobatics in high performance aircraft?

While you do have a good point, keep in mind it was Kernals at AA who invented the AAMP course that subjected airliners to 90 degree flips for wake turbulence and recovery procedures akin to F4 Phanthoms. The NTSB wasn't impressed much. (AA 587 crash investigation)

 

[waveflyer]

So why does it bug you so much? And clearly, it does. You started this thread, and have made the most anti-military generalizations. Do you think if a new-hire class was 26 out of 30 civilian-trained instead, that the former military guys should whine about it? Who gives a crap-- as long as they're behind us on the seniority list, who cares where they got their training?

Bubba

When has SWA ever run a class of 87% civilians?

And are you trying to tell me that the military faction of Swapa wouldn't be WAY more vocal if SWA was interviewing just 1 of 6 per group military and hiring just 4 of 30?

A serious question- are you really trying to tell me that?

You aren't the one getting pissed on by civilians bubba- so maybe you just don't know how some of your military guys act around SWA-

And please remember- this is airline 6 for me. My legacy has it's issues- but this constant military superiority living in the past was not one of them. The charter company I flew with hired mostly military.

Military pilots at SWA have earned their bad reputation by their arrogant sense of entitlement - it isn't my fault for calling a spade a spade or a dbag a dbag-

Read the thread bubba- I've got lots of ex mil friends all of which can't stand the kernals too-

But this is an entrenched cultural issue in our ranks BECAUSE SWA hooks up so many- how can those in this class not have a sense of entitlement?

26 out of 30 is ridiculous and you know it when the military makes up such a large percentage of our crap pilots

If this is news to you bubba, you might just be a ....

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Starts every radio transmission with "annnnnd"....

Asks "what's your background?" within the first two minutes of being in the cockpit? (Scotch Romanian)

Once Air Force, never cool again.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

I have. She's a Ginger as well. Longest four days of my life - "There is no turbulence behind a line of thunderstorms, it's all in front".

Don't be sexist...b1tches hate that.

 

[Gillegan]

Interesting thread. It's a fair point that an ex-mil pilot will have generally been through a bit more vetting before embarking on a civilian career and that the standard of their training is probably more consistent than in the civilian world but that doesn't mean that the only source of GOOD PILOTS is the military - and you are a kernel of you believe otherwise.

I've flown with a lot of civilian pilots and a lot of military pilots and there were good and bad pilots from both backgrounds. The bad ones from the military were usually the ones that made sure you knew where they came from - almost like they had a sense of entitlement and that to actually apply themselves in their civilian job was beneath them. The good military guys were very good, very humble and judged pilots based on their ability and performance and NOT on what they did before.

An interesting side-note to this; I've spent the last 18 years flying with pilots from all over the world and I would have to say that almost all of the kernals that I've run across have been American.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

A sexist term there- anyone met any female kernels?
I've flown with females I'd rather not, but they weren't kernels

Look for the "chevron" tie. Here's your sign.

 

[humveedriver]

Seriously? I didn't want anyone to know my name when I was drinking. Are you sure it wasn't a nametag fake name like Hugh G. Rection or Dick Hertz. That I could see a military guy doing.

That must have been it. That was a first though. I'll wear the sterile jacket outside if its cold. But inside at the bar? Maybe that was SOP at the O-Club to distinguish the aviators from the mere mortals. The Kernal will also drive the FA's away because he can't hold a normal conversation. All he can talk about is flying or himself.

 

[skypine69]

I quit the CAP when the day after the class about how to salute properly.

 

[Herkdrv]

When has SWA ever run a class of 87% civilians?

And are you trying to tell me that the military faction of Swapa wouldn't be WAY more vocal if SWA was interviewing just 1 of 6 per group military and hiring just 4 of 30?

A serious question- are you really trying to tell me that?

You aren't the one getting pissed on by civilians bubba- so maybe you just don't know how some of your military guys act around SWA-

And please remember- this is airline 6 for me. My legacy has it's issues- but this constant military superiority living in the past was not one of them. The charter company I flew with hired mostly military.

Military pilots at SWA have earned their bad reputation by their arrogant sense of entitlement - it isn't my fault for calling a spade a spade or a dbag a dbag-

Read the thread bubba- I've got lots of ex mil friends all of which can't stand the kernals too-

But this is an entrenched cultural issue in our ranks BECAUSE SWA hooks up so many- how can those in this class not have a sense of entitlement?

26 out of 30 is ridiculous and you know it when the military makes up such a large percentage of our crap pilots

If this is news to you bubba, you might just be a ....

You seriously need to get laid. Preferably by someone in the service or who has served before. They shag the best! :beer:

 

[SWA Bubba]

When has SWA ever run a class of 87% civilians?

And are you trying to tell me that the military faction of Swapa wouldn't be WAY more vocal if SWA was interviewing just 1 of 6 per group military and hiring just 4 of 30?

A serious question- are you really trying to tell me that?

Yes, I'm trying to tell you exactly that. The overwhelming majority of us couldn't give the slightest crap where their partner got their training. All we care is that the guy (or gal) we fly with has a decent personality, for 3-4 days' worth of sitting side by side. If you've got a few good stories, I don't care if they took place in an Air Force plane, an outhouse, a Abrahms tank, a 30-year old 747 freighter, or a twin Otter in Asswipe, Africa (all stories I've heard for the other pilot).

And I have no idea if SWA ran a class of 87% civilian or not; I've never known anyone who kept track but you. All I know is that -I- seem to fly with more FOs who were civilian trained than military trained. I don't know why that is, nor do I care. Perhaps it goes in cycles, and it just worked out that way for the typical seniority of guys I usually fly with. Maybe it's because ex-military guys tend to be older, have to retire sooner, and leave more civilians behind. I don't know.

And as far as this most recent wave of interviewing that you're complaining about, you might take up your concerns with the third party company who created the computer program that determines who's competitive for hiring, since it was a computer that determined who got interviewed this time--no more hooking your buddy up.

You aren't the one getting pissed on by civilians bubba- so maybe you just don't know how some of your military guys act around SWA-

Actually, I have. When I was a FO, there were two civilian-trained captains I flew with who treated me like crap, just because I was formerly military. And while we have former military D-bags here--and trust me when I say this, Wave--we have plenty of D-bag civilian-trained guys as well. Perhaps since you're more familiar with that particular brand of feminine product, you don't notice the scent as much.

And please remember- this is airline 6 for me. My legacy has it's issues- but this constant military superiority living in the past was not one of them. The charter company I flew with hired mostly military.

Really? Apparently, military-trained guys are only "arrogant," "entitled," and D-bags" when they get hired by Southwest, but not when they get hired by other civilian carriers? Is that really what you're saying?

Military pilots at SWA have earned their bad reputation by their arrogant sense of entitlement - it isn't my fault for calling a spade a spade or a dbag a dbag-

Read the thread bubba- I've got lots of ex mil friends all of which can't stand the kernals too-

But this is an entrenched cultural issue in our ranks BECAUSE SWA hooks up so many- how can those in this class not have a sense of entitlement?

26 out of 30 is ridiculous and you know it when the military makes up such a large percentage of our crap pilots

Again, for the hard of hearing, a third-party computer determined who got interviewed this time--no "hooking up of friends" by anyone this time. So you'll have to pick some other boogeyman to blame for there being such a high percentage of military-trained interviewees in this batch.

If this is news to you bubba, you might just be a ....

By the way, I never cared before, but now you got me curious. So I just looked up my new hire class from 13 years ago. Out of 24 guys, there was 15 civilian trained, and only 9 military trained. What an outrage! I should have whined to someone back then! That's over 62% civilian! Unfair!

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

That 3rd party computer program had parameters set by us somewhere. Garbage in garbage out,

Look, I don't give a rat's ass where someone is from either, but maybe you don't notice the dbag mil scent either for the same reason.

Again, I'm not saying military pilots are different - I'm saying the culture of holding onto your past is different here than at other airlines. To me, it's still the ripple effect of that Phx meet and greet era where so many were hired on a handshake and came in thinking they were special. It's cultural here. I've had no less than a half dozen compliment me and drink beer- and then tell me Swa ought to go back to that kind of a process for military pilots- he wanted me to agree with him. Seriously?

I'm sorry you want to play it so cool- but these are valuable jobs. And though most of my friends have long since landed where they've landed I don't like the blatant disrespect for civilians that hiring 4 out of 30 represents. It's hugely discriminatory.

Funny how the guy who's background isn't discriminated against finds no problem with it.

Maybe you're not all that enlightened to how much your 20% is a pain in the ass.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I thought I'd never see the day....

A fight to the death between Bubba and Wave!!!

"Como Estan Beeches!!"
-Anchorman-
2004