XJT Pilots Authorize Strike!

[walpaper]

Looks like a "no vote" from JS since it has already been publicly stated that we will be below Comair in hard rates but at or above them in W-2 compensation, when one factors in profit sharing, hard DPM's, retirement, leg by leg pay, etc. If you do your research, you will find that the second TA for the dispatchers wasn't much better than the first. They basically moved the money around.

Sam

Your continual use of people's "supposed" initials is starting to freak me out. What are you, some kind of stalker? A quick glance at the Expressjet senority list reveals no Sam Fisher, or SF as you would put it. If you are going to try to "reveal" everyone else as a means to belittle their views, why not reveal yourself?

 

[Sam Fisher]

Your continual use of people's "supposed" initials is starting to freak me out. What are you, some kind of stalker? A quick glance at the Expressjet senority list reveals no Sam Fisher, or SF as you would put it. If you are going to try to "reveal" everyone else as a means to belittle their views, why not reveal yourself?

I apologize as that wasn't my intent at all. But no, not a stalker. Not sure how one could stalk on here.

Have a nice day.

Sam

 

[flap operator]

AviatrTX -


Maybe you should take your blame statements and think about it before you start "blaming" other airlines for your current strife. I know most if not all of you think Mesaba sold you down the river by signing the contract we did... and by not raising the bar ABOVE comair. Well... NEWS FLASH! Mesaba mostly operates turboprops. We now have industry leading turboprop rates.

I voted NO and don't think it was the best we could have done. But we gained in ALL areas. We did not take any steps back. I know a dude on reserve at Comair and he complaints incessantly about reserve rules. Oh, gee, Mesaba has better R work rules than Comair? Is it possible? YES. It's not all about PAY. Check your facts and then blame others ok?

Stop b!itching about our contract and the contracts of others and put your energy into YOUR contract... where it is needed most. It's getting really iritating hearing the comparing of contracts pre economic downturn to the ones of late. AirWilly on your good side? THEY TOOK CONCESSIONS!!! You got a lot of bitter floating around in you against other airlines and their pilots... why don't you channel that toward YOUR mgmt? They're the ones trying to fuuck you... not the rest of us!


FO

 

[Nova]

But you did negotiate 50 seat jet pay rates and that is what our company measures our offers against at the Negotiation table.

 

[flap operator]

But we're NOT a 50 seat jet airline. We don't have any and probably won't ever have any. Why don't you compare work rules? I'm just saying that you gotta look at the big picture. And for as much blame as you Coex'ers are putting on other pilot groups, you might be best benefitted by channeling that blame towards the people who truely are worthy of being blamed. Remember, it's a fight against YOUR mgmt, not other pilot groups. Please also remember, that every airline is different and operates differently. Therefore, it would be like comparing apples to oranges. There is NO WAY that Mesaba could have ever afforded a Comair + (in pay) contract for us. What we got was Comair + in alot of work rules and some increases in pay. We're more than half the size smaller of your company or Comair. Once again, stop blaming US and do something about your own cause. You are on control of your contract... not Mesaba, Mesa, Chautauqua or anybody else. Different threats, different earnings, different agreements with the mother airline all make it too convoluted for true comparison.

Good luck to you all... I (we) at Mesaba support you as much as you supported us. I for one, will not hold anything against your pilot group if the outcome isn't Comair +. It's just ignorant to do so.


FO

 

[AviatorTx]

You are on control of your contract... not Mesaba, Mesa, Chautauqua or anybody else. Different threats, different earnings, different agreements with the mother airline all make it too convoluted for true comparison.

Unfortunatley, this is not true. As much as I wish it were. It is not. That's just a fact.

I will give you credit where credit is due though and admit that you Messaba guys did pretty good, in your work rules area. You should have not negotiated 50 seat rates though without having 50 seat equipment. You could have crossed that bridge when you came to it, an possibly gotten great rates.

Now... The bottom line is that the NMB regarless of our protests has lumped us into the same catagory as all of the airlines you mentioned. Period.

We have NO control over this. The NMB is like the shark that eats you. Once it makes up it's mind (which the NMB has). It's not personal, yet it will not listen to reason, or care when you scream out in pain. Once the shark has decided to eat you, it will. You can fight back to the best of your ability, but short of having any weapons, your efforts will probably fall short, and you will be supper.

That is what has happened with us and the NMB. We have done everything we can to convince them that we are doing mainly mainline flying in an all get fleet and therefore should earn liniar mainline type wages. The NMB has disagreed, and says we are just another 50 seat jet carrier and should earn 50 seat jet type wages.

When the NMB quotes 50 seat jet wages, they cite the recent contracts that have ben signed and lump us into that catagory. Regardless of how much we want, the NMB simply looks at the last contracts that have been signed and says we need to be in that ballpark. So, in closing... Since nobody else has really raised the bar in the last few years, it is now going to be next to impossible for us to get a substantial gain. We can pi$$ and moan all we want to, but the NMB will NEVER release us unless we are at least in the same ballpark as the bottom feeders that have hosed us, by hosing themselves. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Yes, it is our Management playing hardball... That's their job. But we owe a deep thanks (insert finger) to all the bottom feeders that handed our management the loaded gun to kill us on payrates.

 

[Air Biscuit]

Flap Operator, thanks for the support. I agree completely with what you are saying. I think that it is up to us to finally take a stand and say enough is enough and fight till the end. Patience is key. Unfortunately we've got guys here ready to take the first offer that comes down the pipe because it is better than what we have now, also because their impatient and short term thinkers who say we don't have any leverage, all the while bad mouthing the other guys for their sh!tty contracts. This will justify them with settling for the sh!t sandwich that's about to be served. We have more leverage than anyone out there and can hold out for a whole lot more. These guys forget Comair held out for three years before they were able to strike. It takes time. I just hope there's enough of us out there like me willing to not even compare Comair in making my decision for what is right in pay. All the f.o.'s that I've been flying with have had enough of this place and could care less if it burns to the ground. There not willing to settle for even the original 29% that the union was shooting for. They are worried because they think that alot of the Captains that they fly with are trigger happy and ready to sign off on anything. I won't settle. Let's see $17,600x29%=$22,704 still a pathetic slap in the face for a highly skilled professional career. Let's face it if you double nothing it is still nothing. Again thank you for your support.

 

[Instigator]

We have more leverage than anyone out there ...

You do? What leverage will you use to get anything more than what's on the table right now for rates?

 

[Air Biscuit]

You do? What leverage will you use to get anything more than what's on the table right now for rates?

I won't sign it. How hard is that to comprehend. If you think that we will be on ice forever your wrong. Our day will come. Bush is going bye, bye, in another month.

 

[flap operator]

AviatorTX - I understand your point. We were in the same boat you are almost a year ago. It is true that the NMB makes BLANKET comparisons. Unfortunately most of the pilot groups do to, including yourself. You are at the mercy of the NMB and it DOES SUCK. But why is it hard to acknowlege the facts that you do know, despite what hte NMB thinks. I hope that you don't base your views on the world soley on one source of information. I certainly hope tha you realize Coex is very different than Mesaba, who is very different than Chautauqua who is very different than Mesa. While the NMB may not think so, it IS A FACT. You honestly cannot believe that a company like Mesaba with solid financials and complete control by Northwest who plays better hardball than any airline out there can acheive the same that Comair did in 2001 or you COULD acheive in 2004? NWA has the strongest scope on their regionals. NWA has the strongest (in their favor) contracts with their regional partners. Again, we are all different companies. The only thing we do the same, is fly airplanes. Agian, stop blaming the others, especially wihtout loking at their circumstances. You will never know how it felt to be a Mesaba pilot. Likewise we never knew how it felt to be a Mesa pilot. Different circumstances in different times.

It obviously is hard to reason with you, since you're rightfully caught up in the "contract blues." It was a tremendous learning experience for me and my pilot group. We can now hopefully see things from both sides of the line, as we've "been there, done that." If you honestly believe Mseaba has a "sh!tty" contract you obviously have either your sights set WAY TOO HIGH or you have no clue what our contract includes.

Respectfully as a fellow airline pilot,

FO

 

[Nova]

But we're NOT a 50 seat jet airline. We don't have any and probably won't ever have any.

You don't think that future operators of the 190 won't look to the Jetblue contract as a benchmark even though Jetblue has yet to take delivery of their first jet? Whether or not you have any 50 seat jets on property has little bearing on the implications of your negotiated rates. You don't think if Pinnacle gets a bit too expense for mainline that they won't turn around and start sending those jets towards Mesaba since you've already negotiated a lower pay rate? We've already seen it with the 70 seat jets among competing feeders.

What will your excuse be when the first 50 seat jet is delivered whether it be 1 year from now or 5 years?

 

[AviatorTx]

I certainly hope tha you realize Coex is very different than Mesaba, who is very different than Chautauqua who is very different than Mesa. While the NMB may not think so, it IS A FACT.

What it all boils down to though, is since the NMB lumps us all into the same catagory, we ARE all in the same catagory as far as pay goes.

I tried to make it clear in my last post that I am not trying to bash Messaba here, as I realize you guys are a smaller, more of a turboprop airline. It really does not matter now. Mesa and sh*taco did most of the damage. They ARE pretty much in the same catagory as we are. As we are so reminded by the NMB.

The "contract blues" you refer to are induced by the FACT that we have a next to impossible task now due to the precedent set before us.

My hat's off to you Messaba guys. At least you took it to the last second and actualy tried. You just diddn't roll over and lube yourselves up for management like the other two bottom feeders I mentioned. They screwed the rest of the industry just as much as they screwed themselves.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Flap Operator speaks wisely and from experience. I applaud him for sacking up and telling it the way it unfortunately is.

Sam

 

[Britpilot]

Umm, didn't every one of you sign up for a job that paid 17,500 a year or less?
I suppose there is unity within the group. You all were willing to work for nothing. Good luck... I guess....

Get back in your cessna and fuuck off.

 

[cynic]

You teach people how to treat you

You guys need to watch Dr. Phil. MAybe subscribe to O magazine?

You teach people how to treat you. What did you teach the company when you accepted $17,500 a year?

Like I said, good luck, you'll need it. And actually, I own Diamond Star, not a Cessna. And yes, I'll go climb in that. And thanks again for keeping those wages so low!

http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness/smallbusiness/wpn-2-20020710YouTeachPeopleHowToTreatYou.html

"So often we hear people ask the question, "Why does he/she/they treat me/us so badly?". The honest answer, in most cases, is "Because you let him, her or they!""

 

[AviatorTx]

Get back in your cessna and fuuck off.

Give up... You are trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

 

[FlyChicaga]

cynic, if you are so against XJT and it's newhire pay, then why did you interview here?

 

[FlyChicaga]

cynic quoted: "I'd love to fly a big jet for big money (at least 75K a year) but is that dream going down in flames with the proliferation of regional airlines?

I have no interest in being a career pilot with regional airline QOL and pay. But I'd do it in the short term for a long term gain; but then that might make me part of the problem (taking the job) as opposed to part of the solution"

Hmm.

Another cynic quote: "Perhaps I need therapy!"

Perhaps. You have anger issues.

 

[Britpilot]

Give up... You are trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

True, true, true. And this moron actually admits to owning a Diamond Star.

 

[cynic]

Ummm, I have no wits about me, and yet I turned down the 17,500 a year job.



Still no intelligent response to these facts

1) You all took low paying jobs. Not just low, but poverty wage jobs.

2) You are responsible for showing that pilots will work for nothing.

3) As a result, you have trained mgmt. that there is no need to pay even a livable wage.

So explain how I'm wrong and pilots at XJET have no culpability here?

And yes I'm disappointed and angry because people LIKE YOU are responsible for the low wages. If you took the job it is your fault. My only consolation is that you will get what you trained mgmt you deserve.



And what’s wrong with a diamond star anyway? Glass panel, good gas mileage, snappy controls…