XJT Pilots Authorize Strike!

[Sam Fisher]

If you are saying that you would accept an unsatisfactory agreement now, merely because you are too impatient and unwilling to wait-out the negotiating process, your thinking is beyond my comprehension.

Wrong Mr D. Pay rates aside, what we've already negotiated is industry-leading in all areas. I'm pretty impressed with the information flow and the results of our 2+ years of bargaining. Some will probably disagree but I applaud our negotiators for their performance and the gains made to date. I trust that what my NC puts in front of us will be what they genuinely believe is the best they can do, given the most horrible negotiating environment in airline history. Please remember that your situation at CMR was a completely different timeframe.

Negotiations are normally a long an tedious process, and especially at difficult times like these. The NMB deliberately uses the "delay tactic" in an effort to force acceptance of inferior agreements. So does the Company. And so, by the way, does ALPA National. You appear to be letting them take advantage of your impatience.

Given our 2+ years of negotiating, I think we at XJT are all well aware of the reality of the airline negotiations process. Nobody is taking advantage of me. I have my own mind and my view point is my own.

When the needs of the pilot group (as opposed to the wants) have not been met and you are considering the possibility of self-help and taking "strike votes", it is not logical to say that you will strike if you can do it now but you will take a bad agreement if you have to wait. Pardon me, but that doesn't make sense.

Who said anything about a bad agreement? Don't let the emotional chest thumpers on this thread lead you to believe what we have gotten is a "bad agreement" because we won't meet CMR in hard pay rates. That agreement was negotiated prior to 9/11 and all of the subsequent industry turmoil.

You should never point a loaded gun (strike vote) at the Company's head unless the group is fully prepared to pull the trigger. Without complete unity of purpose, which I don't find in this thread, pulling the trigger is suicide.

Trust me. We are unified. I have no doubts as to what this pilot group will do, should we have to pull the trigger (if we are allowed).

Unity doesn't mean that every pilot must agree on every line in the contract. However, it does mean that the group must agree on what your "needs" really are. If you do in fact agree on the "needs", it follows you will also be willing to wait however long it takes until they are achieved AND to walk away if they are not.

I agree. But I believe our needs are being addressed.

IMHO, something as drastic as a strike is never warranted to satisfy your wants but is sometimes necessary to obtain your needs. If the difference between wants and needs is not clear to the group the success of a strike is unlikely.

JMO. Again, I wish you all the very best.

We shall see. I guess at the end of the day, it is all moot. We won't be released anytime soon.

Sam

 

[ILStoMinimums]

What makes you think I don't already have more years under my belt than you? I guess the longer you're in this business the more pissed off you become and you think that because I'm not like you that I must be a newbie? I'm just not an ignorant @ss is all. The only reason we're paid such low wages is because there are more pilots than jobs. You've got to be an idiot to think a company is going to give you more money when that is the case. Did you ever get any higher education? You may have learned a bit about economics. Perhaps you didn't get past high school and that is why you're stuck at a regional and pissed off at the world. And for the guy who poopooed the idea that XJT will not be guaranteed to be the only Continental connection carrier in the next few years, go on strike and hope for the best. It's all supply and demand and if you can't supply it at competitive rates then I can assure you that 10 other companies will be happy to underbid you. You've got to take a look at the current economy as well as your competition. Just because there's no competition today doesn't mean there won't be tomorrow. Just look at what United has done to diversify its regional carriers. You guys can all do what you want. I don't work there. Just prove me right so I can have you serve my burger at McD's. I hope you don't prove me right and you all still have jobs at the end of the day but you radical folks out there deserve to be smacked back into reality.

OK, well in a nutshell your happy making $17,500 as a first year FO + a few bucks on 2nd year pay, etc......? But hey your competitive right!

 

[Sam Fisher]

OK, well in a nutshell your happy making $17,500 as a first year FO + a few bucks on 2nd year pay, etc......? But hey your competitive right!

I didn't see anything about him being happy making that. But I do think being competitive is going to be important going forward in this industry, given how many RJ carriers are out there bidding on a finite amount of feed. It sucks, but it is the way it is.

Sam

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I didn't see anything about him being happy making that. But I do think being competitive is going to be important going forward in this industry, given how many RJ carriers are out there bidding on a finite amount of feed. It sucks, but it is the way it is.

Sam

Sam,

I do agree. Being competitive is key, but I believe you guys deserve more and still can be competitive. Hope I'm not on my own in my thinking. And, I figured him being happy with what he makes was just understood by reading his post.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

I'm not making 17,000 a year by the way. My company pay is quite good. However, my company is still able to compete with other regionals because we provide a great product and our pay scale is not out of line with the current economic situation. Also, if you don't think competition will affect you down the road, ask the current United regional what they have to say about it. We've all taken pay cuts and our ability to strike has been very limited to say the least. I guarantee as soon as Continental can diversify their risk they will. It's what any of you would do if you were in the drivers seat at Continental.

 

[flap operator]

Sam - I'm curious to know, how YOU know that you've got industry leading language in all areas discussed... WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A TA? I guarantee your NC has not let the cat out of the bag... and if they have, it will be detremental to your cause. Remember, the devil is in the details.

Speaking from the other side of the line,

FO

 

[Instigator]

Sam - I'm curious to know, how YOU know that you've got industry leading language in all areas discussed... WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A TA? I guarantee your NC has not let the cat out of the bag... and if they have, it will be detremental to your cause. Remember, the devil is in the details.

Speaking from the other side of the line,

FO

As each section has been negotiated, the language has been released to the pilot group. We already know what the majority of a complete TA looks like. Most of it so far is rather impressive. The rest, we'll see...

 

[flap operator]

Interesting... our MEC was very tight lipped with the details of each TA'd section. They'd give us mini summaries, but very little detail. Perhaps they did this because what we got, was not exactly what we were lead to believe we got. I dunno... perhaps it's just different strategies.

Good for you guys then... sounds like it's shaping up to be a good contract. Care to share details of this industry leading soon to be TA?

FO

 

[Sam Fisher]

Sam - I'm curious to know, how YOU know that you've got industry leading language in all areas discussed... WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A TA? I guarantee your NC has not let the cat out of the bag... and if they have, it will be detremental to your cause. Remember, the devil is in the details.

Speaking from the other side of the line,

FO

While Instigator said it quite well, I will add on that we have seen virtually every closed section to date (which is all but scope, compensation, scheduling, and expenses) but we have also seen bullet points on the gains made in scheduling and compensation to date. I'd be more than happy to compare our vacation section and retirement section to yours, etc. Our NC has done a great job so far and I look forward to seeing the rest.

Sam

 

[cynic]

Umm, didn't every one of you sign up for a job that paid 17,500 a year or less?
I suppose there is unity within the group. You all were willing to work for nothing. Good luck... I guess....

 

[Nova]

Umm, didn't every one of you sign up for a job that paid 17,500 a year or less?
I suppose there is unity within the group. You all were willing to work for nothing. Good luck... I guess....

Again, when most of us signed on here the COEX payrate was near industry leading. You seem determined to compare our 2 year old payscales with an underdetermined standard. Plus most of us here were hired to fly turboprops which we no longer have on property. Contract '97 was constructed for a company that flew 3 different turboprops and had 25 jets on order. Now we have about 250 jets and no props. We're a new company negotiating an appropriate contract as we speak or did you forget that? So stop your "your 6 year old payscales are substandard" junk.

 

[AviatorTx]

Nova just nailed it.

Our payscales are almost SEVEN years old, and it's a TURBOPROP contract.

BUT... Barely minus the payrates... It's STILL better than most of the low life bottom feeding scumsucking contracts that have been signed in the last two years. Comair and Air Whisky are about the only two exceptions. I'll take our seven year old work rules over 90% of your NEW bottom feeding work rules any day of the week.

I apologize... It's not going to be by much, but we WILL raise the bar. We know the risks involved, but so be it!

 

[Saluki Dawg]

I'm not even sure I can look some of you guys in the eye anymore, I'm so ashamed of this thread. We're at the 5 yard line, and you guys sound like you're ready to punt to the other team instead of going for the TD. I know, corny sports analogies. The best I could come up with this early.

If you think that we will keep our exclusivity with CAL after January 1, 2007, then some of you guys really are on your favorite (insert your favorite recreational narcotic here). Comair + 1% MINIMUM in HARD payrates or this is a NO VOTE from me. We could sign a Mesa or Skywest deal, and we'd still lose our flying with CAL to other carriers. Will we lose all of it? No, but we will lose some of it no matter what kind of contract we sign. Don't even begin to fall for the trap that management is putting out, that they will be able to only make a deal to keep our flying with CAL if we sign off on payrates that are BELOW COMAIR.
There is no deal to be made with CAL. The day that we went from being Continental Express to ExpressJet Holdings, CAL publicly stated their intentions in the future of diversifying their portfolio of Small Jet providers. So, let's wait and see what our NC sends us to vote on. The Dispatchers already sent their first TA back to the company to work on, and approved their second TA. We voted down our first TA in C'97 and approved the second. Read the TA carefully, decide based on the facts contained in the TA, and not on fear of losing flying in the furture, because that flying is already lost. If the contract is what you honestly think we deserve, then vote yes. If not, send it back to the NC for further negotiation. Remember, these guys are professionals, and won't be insulted just because we didn't ratify the first TA.

 

[Nova]

Where do the Mechanics stand with their contract talks?

 

[Captain X]

If not, send it back to the NC for further negotiation.

I don't condone voting either way on the first TA. What I do condone is reading it side by side with OUR Contract '97 and making your voting decision based on that comparison.

I agree with Saluki but just be prepared for what you may "lose" between TA1 and TA2 if it comes to that as well.

I can think of more than a few things that the company would go after if we open this puppy back for a second TA -- RSV days off, vacation, retro, leg by leg overs, hard vs soft DPM, and uniform allowance just to name a few.

Be rational and look at the WHOLE package before you decide. If you have a family, include them in the decision making process as well.

It may not (or it may) be what you were hoping for but you really have to look and see if you will be better off with what comes in TA1 (compared to C'97 NOT with where you think we DESERVE to be) or if rolling the dice on TA2 is worth gambling those gains.

 

[TOGA]

Reality check:

1. ExJet makes more money than Southwest during the worst time in the history of the airline industry.

2. DOUBLING the pay rates of all three crewmembers would cost our passengers less than $2 per flight.

3. Today's best paid pilots make less than half what their counterparts of 30 years ago did (in adjusted dollars).

4. Oil was almost double its current price twice before ('73 & '81, adjusted for inflation).

5. We are primarily responsible for the lives of up to 300 people per duty period.

6. It's nearly impossible to find a job that 'requires' our level of education and pays less than ours does. (This fact ignores the required flight training, medical and background screening, practical testing, and the aforementioned level of responsibility)



Don't let emotion or propaganda cloud facts. Vote based on facts.

 

[cynic]

Reality Check:

You all took jobs (regardless of what 'industry standards are or were') at or below poverty wages.

The company knows what pilots will work for and they won't pay more than that. This is thanks to all you guys currently working there, and thanks to all you guys currently applying and taking the jobs.

Good luck though. You'll need it. And think, if you get a 10% raise your pilots will start at $19,250.00 a year. Woweee!

Of course there is NO relationship between quality of personnel and pay, so I suppose it doesn't matter, right??

 

[rattler]

Cynic, go bother someone else. This contract is not only big for X-Jet, it is huge for the entire industry. It will directly effect contract talks at ASA, and will make an impact on Eagle pay. It will also strengthen the position of Comair pilots. You can either show your support, or get out.

 

[nimtz]

cynic,

Congratulations. I've looked on this board from time to time over many years under a few different names, but you are the first person to make my ignore list! Never even really thought about the thing until I read yet another of your post calling out the same stupid BULLSH!T.

You have never flown for an airline, so you have no room to judge the life or actions of any airline pilot regardless of what company they fly for. Probationary year at any airline sucks my friend, that is reality pretty much anywhere in this profession. Don't believe me, go check America West first year pay sometime. Since you have never worked for an airline I won't expect you to understand, so in the meantime don't comment about what you don't know. Don't waste all the valuable time you obviously have replying cause I won't be reading
your garbage anymore!

 

[Sam Fisher]

I'm not even sure I can look some of you guys in the eye anymore, I'm so ashamed of this thread. We're at the 5 yard line, and you guys sound like you're ready to punt to the other team instead of going for the TD. I know, corny sports analogies. The best I could come up with this early.

If you think that we will keep our exclusivity with CAL after January 1, 2007, then some of you guys really are on your favorite (insert your favorite recreational narcotic here). Comair + 1% MINIMUM in HARD payrates or this is a NO VOTE from me. We could sign a Mesa or Skywest deal, and we'd still lose our flying with CAL to other carriers. Will we lose all of it? No, but we will lose some of it no matter what kind of contract we sign. Don't even begin to fall for the trap that management is putting out, that they will be able to only make a deal to keep our flying with CAL if we sign off on payrates that are BELOW COMAIR.
There is no deal to be made with CAL. The day that we went from being Continental Express to ExpressJet Holdings, CAL publicly stated their intentions in the future of diversifying their portfolio of Small Jet providers. So, let's wait and see what our NC sends us to vote on. The Dispatchers already sent their first TA back to the company to work on, and approved their second TA. We voted down our first TA in C'97 and approved the second. Read the TA carefully, decide based on the facts contained in the TA, and not on fear of losing flying in the furture, because that flying is already lost. If the contract is what you honestly think we deserve, then vote yes. If not, send it back to the NC for further negotiation. Remember, these guys are professionals, and won't be insulted just because we didn't ratify the first TA.

Looks like a "no vote" from JS since it has already been publicly stated that we will be below Comair in hard rates but at or above them in W-2 compensation, when one factors in profit sharing, hard DPM's, retirement, leg by leg pay, etc. If you do your research, you will find that the second TA for the dispatchers wasn't much better than the first. They basically moved the money around.

Sam