Wow, Delta's Earnings

[General Lee]

Let's compare profitability and financial health General. Due to Delta still carrying forward years of unprofitability, Delta paid no corporate taxes during Q2 while Southwest paid $140 million. So let's take a look at Delta and Southwest's pre-tax margins excluding special items for both carriers (an apples to apples comparison):

Delta Q2 pre-tax profit: $844 million
Delta Q2 revenue: $9.71 billion
Delta Q2 pre-tax margin: 8.7%

Southwest Q2 pre-tax profit: $413 million
Southwest Q2 revenue: $4.64 billion
Southwest Q2 pre-tax margin: 8.9%

That's right General. Without bag fees, Southwest posted a higher pre-tax margin than Delta. Maybe customers don't like being nickeled and dimed to death and choose Southwest over the other guys.

While we are comparing, let's take a look at cash levels and the big liabilities on the balance sheet as of June 30, 2013:

Delta Long Term Debt: $10.5 billion
Delta Unfunded Pension Obligation: $15.4 billion
Delta unrestricted cash and short term investments: $3.9 billion

Southwest Long Term Debt: $2.7 billion
Southwest Unfunded Pension Obligations: $0
Southwest unrestricted cash and short term investments: $3.4 billion

So General, which airline do you want to be working for the next time this country go into a recession? The one with a lot of liabilities or the one with a lot of cash and paid off assets?

Without Bag fees Max? Hey, looks like they are here to stay, and you will eventually catch on, or someone's management will be asking for more at the table as your group continues to get old and increase longevity. Sorry. Don't avoid it. With bag fees, DL and the other 2 legacies will continue to make 3 times what you do. And the pension liability has decreased thanks to stock market gains. Regardless, if profits keep rolling like they are now anyway, it might be paid off in a decade. Management initially had a goal of reducing the long term debt from $18 billion originally (in 2009) to $10 billion, but it's been going so well that now $7 billion is the target. And having 3 legacies instead of 6 ensures a lot more stability in the market.

So, enjoy your transition over to the right seat (why? I still can't figure that out. Did you have something to do with that item? I think you did), and I may look at your 717. Ah, maybe I'll wait for the 738 instead, it will pay a lot more. Bye Max!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Let's compare profitability and financial health General. Due to Delta still carrying forward years of unprofitability, Delta paid no corporate taxes during Q2 while Southwest paid $140 million. So let's take a look at Delta and Southwest's pre-tax margins excluding special items for both carriers (an apples to apples comparison):

Delta Q2 pre-tax profit: $844 million
Delta Q2 revenue: $9.71 billion
Delta Q2 pre-tax margin: 8.7%

Southwest Q2 pre-tax profit: $413 million
Southwest Q2 revenue: $4.64 billion
Southwest Q2 pre-tax margin: 8.9%

That's right General. Without bag fees, Southwest posted a higher pre-tax margin than Delta. Maybe customers don't like being nickeled and dimed to death and choose Southwest over the other guys.

While we are comparing, let's take a look at cash levels and the big liabilities on the balance sheet as of June 30, 2013:

Delta Long Term Debt: $10.5 billion
Delta Unfunded Pension Obligation: $15.4 billion
Delta unrestricted cash and short term investments: $3.9 billion

Southwest Long Term Debt: $2.7 billion
Southwest Unfunded Pension Obligations: $0
Southwest unrestricted cash and short term investments: $3.4 billion

So General, which airline do you want to be working for the next time this country go into a recession? The one with a lot of liabilities or the one with a lot of cash and paid off assets?

Easy there Max. With so many facts right out in the open, the General's head will explode.

26 Billion in Delta debt vs. 2.7 Billion at SW? That's a massive difference. Especially after DL came out of bankruptcy.

Those numbers are very similar to GM's bankruptcy. Still carrying large pension obligations...for years. It definitely wasn't a complete whitewash on the debt.

I think the SW debt is really only carried because it's cheap money right now. Otherwise the debt load would be closer to zero.

What happens to Delta's debt when rates start to rise? Could get interesting. Good Gen, you might need it.

Wave,

Yes, the General is trying to make an argument to outsource smaller cities to a 'Connection' carrier. Just like OYS quote below....eerily similar isn't it?

 

[General Lee]

Easy there Max. With so many facts right out in the open, the General's head will explode.

26 Billion in Delta debt vs. 2.7 Billion at SW? That's a massive difference. Especially after DL came out of bankruptcy.

Those numbers are very similar to GM's bankruptcy. Still carrying large pension obligations...for years. It definitely wasn't a complete whitewash on the debt.

I think the SW debt is really only carried because it's cheap money right now. Otherwise the debt load would be closer to zero.

What happens to Delta's debt when rates start to rise? Could get interesting. Good Gen, you might need it.

Wave,

Yes, the General is trying to make an argument to outsource smaller cities to a 'Connection' carrier. Just like OYS quote below....eerily similar isn't it?

Thanks to Bag Fees, all of that debt will be erased sooner. What a concept, eh? But, you won't add yours until Gary comes and takes money away from you first, and THEN he will add bag fees. Make sure Max is involved in the negotiations btw, he will likely do great things for you, like make sure the Volaris guys become Senior Capts at that eventual merger with SWA, and Max will also agree to a 50% pay cut, loss of duty rigs, overtime pay, etc. Max will really be a bright spot in your SWAPA someday....... (wow, what a trainwreck)

And what happens when debt payments start to rise? Are you questioning the guys who successfully paid down $8 billion over the last few years while posting record profits? Really? These are the guys who, against your own opinion, bought a refinery and have effectively gotten rid of the middleman on DL's largest expense, fuel. But, YOU KNOW BETTER.

Wow Red, you probably write your responses after your 7 leg intra-Texas flying days, and your brain has melted. I do think you and Max should get together and hang out, and discuss how BOTH of you got the better of your AT brothers and sisters. In the meantime, enjoy the stagnation.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

That's your response?

Gary might do this and might do that? That's all you got?

The Volaris deal is dead Gen. Done and over. Not sure why you keep bringing it up. We have no codeshare outside of SW. None. Zero. How many RJ's do you have now?

27 Billion vs 2.7 Billion. Wow.


It must be painful for guys like you to see the AirTran pilots lined up to make more than you. After all those years of thumbing your nose at them in the Atlanta terminal. A little sweet revenge. Even Max will be knocking it out of the park.

 

[General Lee]

That's your response?

Gary might do this and might do that? That's all you got?

The Volaris deal is dead Gen. Done and over. Not sure why you keep bringing it up. We have no codeshare outside of SW. None. Zero. How many RJ's do you have now?

27 Billion vs 2.7 Billion. Wow.


It must be painful for guys like you to see the AirTran pilots lined up to make more than you. After all those years of thumbing your nose at them in the Atlanta terminal. A little sweet revenge. Even Max will be knocking it out of the park.

Hahahaha! "That's all you got???" I'll tell you what "you got." Stagnation, one plane type, 25 min turns, multiple leg days, and an airline that once WAS the Low Cost King. Things are a changing Red...

And AT pilots making more than me? Really? You Corndogs are getting passed up by legacy widebody pilots, and the narrow bodies aren't far behind, and will pass you soon. Throw in thousands of scheduled retirements over the next 10 years(I'll move up over 5,000 numbers in 10 years---almost half the list) vs your certain stagnation, and I bet many of your bottom half of your seniority list will be actively looking to leave and head to a big 3 legacy. I don't blame them, a life of multiple leg days forever on one plane type, regardless of the high pay, seems like a prison sentence. But, at least you and Max can hold hands and talk about how great it felt when Gary shoved a hot poker up your tushes in the 2014 contract..... Have fun!



Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Your talking about stagnation at an airline that basically only flies domestic to about 35 states vs Delta (who grows by codeshare). We'll have growth and retirements coming. There are plenty of new destinations ahead for Southwest. I guarantee. I don't think Delta can say the same.

You'll have growth with a new joint venture to Yellowknife on Canadian North Airlines. Maybe you could go ice fishing. How's that widebody order coming? What? You don't have any? Good luck with that growth thing. At least you have the retirements coming.

We'll see how that stagnation thing works out in the end General. And yes the AirTran guys are bringing their longevity...which means that some guys are making more than you. Who would have thought?

 

[General Lee]

Your talking about stagnation at an airline that basically only flies domestic to about 35 states vs Delta (who grows by codeshare). We'll have growth and retirements coming. There are plenty of new destinations ahead for Southwest. I guarantee. I don't think Delta can say the same.

You'll have growth with a new joint venture to Yellowknife on Canadian North Airlines. Maybe you could go ice fishing. How's that widebody order coming? What? You don't have any? Good luck with that growth thing. At least you have the retirements coming.

We'll see how that stagnation thing works out in the end General. And yes the AirTran guys are bringing their longevity...which means that some guys are making more than you. Who would have thought?

Red,

Stagnation comes from a lot fewer retirements, and one aircraft type. At your airline, when one Capt retires, one AT FO will move up to Capt, and then one newhire will take the FO's place. Not the case at any of the three Legacies. When a top widebody Capt retires, more than 10 people move up, all to higher wages (unless you have grouped pay rates for 3 or more planes like AA and UA, but not at DL). So, there is your stagnation, fewer retirements (by far) and one plane type.

The widebody order is rumored to be out later this month. Apparently it will be either A330s or 777s, and they will be on property by 2015, to start more point to point Asia flying from SEA. And, 30 A321s are also supposedly coming too. (Awaiting the announcement, and I'll happily post it when and if it happens). So, besides 88 717s, 14 MD90s, and 100 739ERs (those are 1 for 1 replacement planes), there could be quite a bit of growth. If those 10 widebodies come along and 30 additional A321s come too, hiring could explode. I would think half of your list will apply just for the chance at better QOL and advancement due to expansion and retirements.

I am sure some AT pilots make more than I do now, but not many, and certainly don't have the potential I do as 5000 retire in the next decade. And, I don't have to go to Midland Odessa.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Hey discount double-speakGL- do you think your sh/tty work environment will disappear with those widebody orders that "might" happen?

Keep chasing that carrot general- every single SWA pilot out earns you and 90+% like they're life better- so good luck- maybe you'll be happy when.....__________

 

[Kroll]

Xj,

A wise person told me to stop looking at everyone else because only I could change my situation. So I focused on where I wanted to to go in life. It can appear that everyone around us have it made. The reality is that we all get thrown curve balls throughout life. At those times we have a choice on how we react to those curveballs.

I would strongly suggest to get off this website and take your kids for an ice cream. Then figure out what you want and where you want to go. Then focus on how you can get there.

I don't mean to sound condescending because that is not my intent. This advice helped me at a point when I was frustrated with what I saw going on around me. In the end all the nonsense that I was making noise about could not help me achieve my goals. I hope it helps you sharpen your focus. There might seem like a lot of hurdles in front of you but hurdles were made for you to jump over. So start jumping my friend.

K-Roll

 

[Kenney G]

That's your response?

Gary might do this and might do that? That's all you got?



That's all Max needed to convince the AirTran pilots to give up their seniority to you.

 

[jonjuan]

Hahahaha! "That's all you got???" I'll tell you what "you got." Stagnation, one plane type, 25 min turns, multiple leg days, and an airline that once WAS the Low Cost King. Things are a changing Red...

And AT pilots making more than me? Really? You Corndogs are getting passed up by legacy widebody pilots, and the narrow bodies aren't far behind, and will pass you soon. Throw in thousands of scheduled retirements over the next 10 years(I'll move up over 5,000 numbers in 10 years---almost half the list) vs your certain stagnation, and I bet many of your bottom half of your seniority list will be actively looking to leave and head to a big 3 legacy. I don't blame them, a life of multiple leg days forever on one plane type, regardless of the high pay, seems like a prison sentence. But, at least you and Max can hold hands and talk about how great it felt when Gary shoved a hot poker up your tushes in the 2014 contract..... Have fun!



Bye Bye----General Lee

Don't forget guys hired 7 years after you making $80K/ year more than you. Other than that, of course. Your family must be oh so proud.

 

[waveflyer]

Kroll-
I like that advice. A lot.

But I compartmentalize the situation. There's advice I give an individual - see your post^^^. And then there's what I believe systemically.

Becoming a major airline pilot is and always has been, and should be, a formidable challenge-
And screw the pilots who refuse to develop themselves fully- they shouldn't be in an RJ, let alone a 75.

But I guess that's my point about RJs
This level of outsourcing has done two things- provided large jet flying opportunities to pilots who haven't earned it yet, and denied major airline jobs to those who have. And a whole lot of backwards wrong situations have developed when the major airline furloughs just to outsource.

So I get it- and that's my advice to a young pilot too- prioritize, keep it in perspective, WORK on yourself, break through barriers, network, build your reputation and develop your relationships- get where you want to be-

But systemically- we've muddied the waters of this career in ways we shouldn't

Outsourcing a 90,000lb jet capable of FL410 that routinely goes coast to coast in a day?
That's wrong - it's a seniority scam

 

[General Lee]

Don't forget guys hired 7 years after you making $80K/ year more than you. Other than that, of course. Your family must be oh so proud.

How do you know what I make? Oh, you think everyone flies an "average" schedule, no greenslips, etc? For senior guys in category, this Summer has been great. Speaking of family, how's your Mom and sister doing? Those two are "freaky!" Wow. Tell them I said hi.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Kroll-
I like that advice. A lot.

But I compartmentalize the situation. There's advice I give an individual - see your post^^^. And then there's what I believe systemically.

Becoming a major airline pilot is and always has been, and should be, a formidable challenge-
And screw the pilots who refuse to develop themselves fully- they shouldn't be in an RJ, let alone a 75.

But I guess that's my point about RJs
This level of outsourcing has done two things- provided large jet flying opportunities to pilots who haven't earned it yet, and denied major airline jobs to those who have. And a whole lot of backwards wrong situations have developed when the major airline furloughs just to outsource.

So I get it- and that's my advice to a young pilot too- prioritize, keep it in perspective, WORK on yourself, break through barriers, network, build your reputation and develop your relationships- get where you want to be-

But systemically- we've muddied the waters of this career in ways we shouldn't

Outsourcing a 90,000lb jet capable of FL410 that routinely goes coast to coast in a day?
That's wrong - it's a seniority scam

Wavey,

Aren't you outsourcing to cheaper labor with a jet the same size as yours? Yes, yes you are. I understand the merger process, but most mergers try to attain pay parity quickly, especially on the same plane. Oh wait, maybe you guys wanted to shove something up their rears and give them a great "take or or leave it" offer? Sounds plausible, and it appears outsourcing to a cheaper vendor so you could get better SLI outside the "normal" arbitration process that almost every recent merger has followed. Hypocrite! Thanks to all that, I bet any loyalty other than a bit from "Benedict" Maxblast will be washed down the toilet.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Hey discount double-speakGL- do you think your sh/tty work environment will disappear with those widebody orders that "might" happen?

Keep chasing that carrot general- every single SWA pilot out earns you and 90+% like they're life better- so good luck- maybe you'll be happy when.....__________

Hey hypocritical PFT ****************************** bag: Would you like to place a wager on how many of those "every single SWA pilots," submits a pilot application to DL? Your airline is overstaffed, and you are not making that "holy grail" paycheck. Your management has stated they need to cut costs, and there is no growth for your foreseeable future.
You should shut your nut drainer, and keep it healthy for its sole purpose.