With the lord anything is possibe

[cjh]

Re: Ever hear?

yet almost everyone will make a last desperate prayer to change their ways when they get in over their heads.

Not if you're a true non-believer. Although you may not believe it, praying to something you don't believe in really isn't a comfort. It would be like me telling you to pray real hard to the pagan gods, and your prayers would be answered. If you don't believe in them how satisfying or comforting do you think a prayer to said entities would make you feel?

Let's just leave it that we can all once again agree to disagree. Believers are comforted by their religion(s), non-believers lead whole lives without theism being a part of it. Lead an honorable life, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Crabtree]

Alright

I can agree to disagree............

 

[Timebuilder]

I can agree, to disagree.

Crabtree, you are referring to the OLD TWA. I think this rule was revoked in the 1960's. Any 80 year old TWA guys on the board who can verify what I was once told?

yet almost everyone will make a last desperate prayer to change their ways when they get in over their heads.

Cjh, he did specify almost everyone, didn't he?

The tendency he is referring to is that in a time a greatest need, a personal tradgedy, a battle, a major failure in a aricraft, a great many people will decide that prayer is their last available means of surviving the challenge. They used to say that "there are no athiests in foxholes", a reference to this last ditch grasp of the unbeliever.

As you point out, not everyone will reach out to God in their lives. According to the Bible, most people will not be saved. That's their free will at work. Choose, and choose wisely.

So, you have free will from God and freedom in America. Not a bad deal.

 

[cjh]

Yeah, I'm aware of the point to which Crabtree was referring. An analogy undoubtedly invented by religious folk. Speaking as a non-believer who has been faced with a life threatening situation I can say that a sudden prayer to something I don't even believe in was the last thing on my mind. Never happened and not likely to.

The valid portion of the analogy, however, is that religion maintains its stronghold in part by preying on the fears of the flock. Religion will always flourish in an evnironment where people are frightened and uneducated. It has a more difficult time surviving in the light of science and reason. Perhaps yet another reason why religion is so often at odds with science. If I teach you the scientific reason for an eclipse you no longer have to pray to your god for the sun to return.

Free will is a joke if you bother to analyze it logically, but why bother. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine. All I ask of anyone's belief system is that they not attempt to drag me into the fold. I'm happy with my viewpoint, and I'm fine with the fact that you're happy with yours. Like oil and water, our views on this subject are not likely to ever mix.

Freedoms offered by Americal are certainly worth protecting. With the media and government infused paranoia sweeping the nation, those freedoms are in danger.

 

[Timebuilder]

Your words sound so familiar.

Once, they were my own.

Good day.

 

[cjh]

See ya' on other posts!

 

[Timebuilder]

Hey, if ya fly a Navajo, we have something in common after all!

 

[cjh]

yep, one small step....

 

[prodigal]

SCIENCE AND REASON

cjh, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Albert Einstein express belief in God. I've also heard the same from other scientists (sorry I can't name them at the moment). I was also a chemistry major in college so I, too, am not unschooled in rational, analytical thought.
The point is that the more we learn, often the more questions it raises and so far "science" hasn't been able to explain everything.
It's true that as we progress in our understanding of the universe we strip away old beliefs and superstitions. That's as it should be. Personally I don't see science and belief in God as mutually exclusive concepts. Quite the contrary, "science" is just a human construct for our attempt to try to get our minds around that which is. Religions are much the same but deal with a slightly different plane (excuse the pun) of existence.
I've studied and lived with Native Americans to some extent and one great truth that the Lakota people teach is that EVERYTHING is connected.
Not trying to change your mind. Just offering food for thought.
Peace.

 

[Publishers]

chiming in

Sometimes it is extremely hard to chime in to subjects on this board. This is one of them.

Within my belief in God I find comfort, I find my vision clearer, the path warmer, the light better, and a gentile nudge when I stray off the objective.

I have started a number of carriers and would be glad to work with the author of this thread.

I will not bore you with my belief for it is mine and serves me well. I will not labor to convince you that you need something I have found, for that is up to you to seek.

You see faith is like the first time you pulled back on that yoke, it is confidence that you will fly.

You see if you want to walk on water, the first step is to get out of the boat.