With the lord anything is possibe

[Snakum]

TXCap sums it nicely. Guys, I do respect your right to believe whatever you want. And I gave five years of my life protecting your right to speak about it. But a thread with a title like this one was BOUND to attract controversy.

Minh

 

[Timebuilder]

I just wonder why all the enlightened pilot-god types (small g) here feel so justified in bashing Christians for no apparent cause, but would most likely (and rightly so) come to the vigorous defense of some black pilot being bashed for no good reason.

That's an interesting question. May I take a moment of your time to answer it?

The answer has to do with what modern America views as "civil rights", particularly in the mass media.

The mass media views Christianity as being the historical majority religion, and all others as being minority religions. Since the media is not uneducated, they know of the nature of the founding of this country, the beliefs of the individuals who accomplished this founding, and of the intent of the Constitution. They also see fit to present these things as differently as they like in order to accomplish their agenda: the realization of a fully secular American society, despite what they know to be true. In order to do this, they maximize coverage of the lunatic fringe, such as the branch davidians, a cult, in order to help distort the public view of Christianity. If a Chritian leader mentions in an interview that we are counciled to "not lay down with a man as if with a woman", there is always a gay activist at the ready to lambaste the bible as being narrowminded and oppressive, and its follwers as being "backward". No other religion is so roundly pillaged in the press, not even post 9-11 Islam.

Since most of us are regular users of the media, we Americans become hardened to Christianity, since it is seen as publically acceptable to both restrain and disdain the followers of Christ. If you go to a modern public school, you immediately learn as a young child that Christ and his teachings are forbidden in most schools, and as a child, you logically conclude that there must be something wrong with Christian belief. You may carry this idea for your entire life.

So while it is easy to identify the belittling of a black man as a violation of his civil rights, and it is never seen in our media as being socially acceptable to do so, our natural tendency is to come to his aid.

On the other hand, we never see a suport in the media (NY Times, CNN, big three networks) for Christianity, and in fact we see Christian views being denigrated widely. It is no surprise, in this environment, that the majority of secular America feels very comfortable in disrespecting both the rights and the persons who adhere to Christian belief.

If you were born in the sixties, seventies, or eighties, you have been trained to be anti-Christian your entire life. Those of us who were born in the fifties remember when this change occured, and we have seen the decadence that has followed.

A cultural note: I heard a blurb on Fox this morning that at least two of the Columbia astronauts attended church regularly, and that their pastors are leading services for them.

I hope this post clarifies the question you posed.

 

[cjh]

Well, it certainly explains YOUR view of the question he asked. It certainly would not reflect my opinion on the subject.

First of all, I would come to the defense of any person, pilot or otherwise, black or otherwise, in need of help. To target a specific race and thereby make race an issue with the question is offensive, at least to this NON christian.

Second, I would defend to the death your right to believe anything you wish, but remember it's a two way street and with your freedom comes my corresponding freedom to disagree with you.

Last, it's really NOT a particularly interesting question. There's no reason to assume non-believers are any less caring about others than whatever religious group you wish to name. I's just that we don't waste time worrying about the various mythologies, christianity included, nor are we concerned with racking up brownie points for the big pie in the sky. So, if someone bashes your charished opinion on creation, I for one, figure you're on your own defending your position. If you can't that's your problem. My only concern is, as stated before, that you continue to have the right to your opinion, however misguided I think it is.

 

[Timebuilder]

My point is this: not everyone, in fact a very great number of Americans, are taught to NOT share your view. Everyone, however, is taught that racial hatred is wrong.

Few are taught that a hatred of Christainity is wrong.

 

[cjh]

Teaching of religion should be left to church and family. In the case of christianity, both certainly seem to do everything possible to foster their belief system, to the point of invading the privacy of others who don't agree.

Hating christianity is wrong? It's neither right nor wrong, it's just one person's opinion vs another's. If I choose to learn about Greek mythology or christian mythology or islamic mythology that's my business. If I read about a religion steeped in senseless cruelty I have every right to form an opinion about it, and it's probably going to be negative. It's understandable that if you're a part of that group you might be defensive but so what? You labor under the opinion that because christianity is the major religion of this country everyone should be forced to respect it or at the very least that it merits respect. That's just not the case. It's a viewpoint, and you're lucky to live where it's a popular one, but it's certainly not the ONLY viewpoint and it warrants no more attention or preference than any other viewpoint.

I certainly also disagree that people are taught to hate christianity. Seems to me christians are their own worst enemies. I live in the Midwest and it gets crammed down your throat constantly. I'd certainly say that christians get more than their fair share of air time. And, as TXCAP4228 pointed out, whenever one of these threads gets going it's because some thumper has once again made it an issue. You don't find many of "us" casting the first stone.

 

[Timebuilder]

You labor under the opinion that because christianity is the major religion of this country everyone should be forced to respect it or at the very least that it merits respect. That's just not the case.

I'm not saying that you have to respect Christianity. I AM saying that people are taught to respect every viewpoint in America EXCEPT Christianity.

Feel free to completely ignore whatever you like. That's what makes us a free country.


Good day.

 

[canadflyau]

I can read that you feel very strongly about this subject to make such strong statements. Although one of your last posts pointed out something huge to me, if you think that Christians are "racking up brownie points for the big pie in the sky" I will say that you do not understand Christianity. I apologize if that incorrect teaching was what was "crammed down your throat constantly" by what you call "thumper(s)", that should not have happened and I, as a Christian, am sorry.

I do not understand how you come out cracking jokes and namecalling yet say "You don't find many of "us" casting the first stone." The original poster is obviously excited about the challenege that he feels can be overcome while starting up an operation, I am sorry but I fail to see where his excitement in saying "With the lord anything is possibe" is even close to casting a stone... the unprovoked jokes and namecalling shortly followed, and all you whom disagreed with this fellow pilot's personal beliefs could have chosen to just not respond to the thread.... He just wanted advice about all the paperwork, not at all what he got.

 

[Timebuilder]

"Here, here."



(yes, I've been watching the british parliament feed on c-span too much)

 

[prodigal]

TXCAP

You are quite free to believe anythig you wish and as free to state such. If you care to re-read my last paragraph you'll see that I only appeal to you all to do so with some respect and decorum.
It's clear that you are also free to be abrasive and abusive for no good reason. No one is trying force anything on you. I fail to see any hypocracy in calling for civility and respect.
Where does all this anger come from against Christians?

 

[TXCAP4228]

Prodigal,

1) Nothing I said was any more abrasive than anything you said. I even called you sir in an attempt to remain civil.
2) While I may not agree than anyone is trying to force anything onto me, I will say again that we are all free to believe anything we want, and to say so. That belief applies as much to you as it does to me.


The post you made to which I repsonded said in part:

I just wonder why all the enlightened pilot-god types (small g) here feel so justified in bashing Christians for no apparent cause, but would most likely (and rightly so) come to the vigorous defense of some black pilot being bashed for no good reason....

It seems all it takes to bring the cat calls is simply to mention Christianity at all. If you chose not to believe, then right on brother, it's your choice, but how about showing some respect for a fellow pilot and the decorum that would reflect on you as a professional.

3) Someone who makes a post disagreeing with you in NOT "Christian bashing" just because it disagrees with you. The way I read what you wrote, any disagreement is "Christian bashing".

Now you say:

It's clear that you are also free to be abrasive and abusive for no good reason. No one is trying force anything on you. I fail to see any hypocracy in calling for civility and respect.

I challenege you to show where I have been abrasive. I called your comments hypocritical because you try to claim a freedom for yourself that you deny to others. Futher, you call people who disagree with you "christain bashers" and then say you have called for civility and respect, while failing to show civility and respect on your own part - and this is the definition of hypocrisy.

To support my position I will repeat part of my previous post:

(POSTED BY TXCAP4228) It doesn't bother me to read these things because all of you are free to say and believe what you do. But WE, sir, are also free to disagree and free to say so. I find your comments above to be particulary hypocritical.

Finally, I have no anger at Christians. My only issue - and you have still not addressed it - is how most christians (including you) think that they are entitled to wear their beliefs on their sleeves (and of course you are), but that people who do not believe are somehow being uncivil or disrespectful by disagreeing.

We have the RIGHT to disagree, sir. And if we excercise that right, it makes us neither disrespectful nor uncivil. It makes us free Americans.

 

[whereamI]

Non-offensive, Non-religious Post

I just remembered, it's called "Pei Wei's". That's the name of the restaurant under the same ownership as PF Changs, with the same food, but half the price tag. Enough talk, lets eat!

 

[prodigal]

TXCAP

Curious interpretation of my post but in the spirit of the moment I won't rebut. I did interpret your response to mine as a bit sarcastic. If I was mistaken, then my apologies sir.
I'll reiterate my earlier statement that anyone is free to espouse any belief, but I just don't understand the visceral reaction by some (if not yourself) to such an innocent post.
The original poster was in no way evangelizing nor trying to "cram" anything down anyone's throat. Nor do I see how someone's Christian auto signature could be offensive. You may not like it, but if not, just ignore it. Who would deny the right of someone to have it? Why this visceral reaction?
There are those here who are as fanatical in their attack of Christians and other religions as the "religious fanatics" they insist on attacking. I would submit that those who do so remove any difference between themselves and those whom they find so offensive. Intolerance is intolerance. In my opinion that is the real hypocracy.
Again, how about some respect for each other's views, and professional decorum.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Re: TXCAP

I still think you have missed my point.

The original poster was in no way evangelizing nor trying to "cram" anything down anyone's throat. Nor do I see how someone's Christian auto signature could be offensive.

You are right on both counts. That's my whole point. If the original poster can make a statement that he believes in god or is blessed and it not be offensive, then somebody else can make a reply to that which says "you know, I disagree with you on that and am not a Christian at all" and that's not offensive either.

I'm saying that YOU ARE CALLING IT OFFENSIVE AND DISRESPECTFUL for the sole reason that it is in disagreement with you. But that doesn't MAKE it offensive and disrespectful.

You may not like it, but if not, just ignore it. Who would deny the right of someone to have it? Why this visceral reaction?
There are those here who are as fanatical in their attack of Christians and other religions as the "religious fanatics" they insist on attacking.

The core of my disagreement with you is that you categorize someone who disagrees with you as intolerant or visceral solely because they disagree with you. I say that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them uncivil or intolerant or visceral. It just means they disagree with you.

Now, you say that there are people who are fanatical about "attacking" christians or other religions. No one who has posted on this thread has attacked have they? They have all said they disagree with you, but that's not an attack, that's a disagreement.

Snakum was a smart-@ss but I thought what he said was pretty funny. In any case, even though I don't really think he needed to he apologized for it. But even still, he didn't attack you or christianity did he? Certainly no more than you have attacked any of us for saying that you believe.

Fly safe everybody, 5:30(AM) will be here awfully early and I need some sleep.

 

[Timebuilder]

Religion does not represent the following of God, to me anyway.

According to Christ, as quoted in the Bible, religion is not a good thing, but trust in the truth of the Bible, which He authenticated to be without error, IS a good thing.

There is a world of difference between the two. Based on what some religious people have done (not followers of Christ and His word, the Bible) I would agree that religion, in and of itself, is dangerous AND misleading.

I'm hungry. Pei Wei's?

Is that pronounced Pee Wee's?

 

[cjh]

TXCAP4228,

Great posts! Well said.

WhereamI,

Thanks for the update on the restaurant. Alas, there does not appear to be one in my city. Guess I'm stuck with the more expensive "original". Ah well, life could be worse!

 

[I'm Blessed]

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and replies. This was my first time ever using this message board and really did not know what type of information to expect, from what I read it was all quite helpful. Some technically helpful, other philosophically and idealogically helpful. When you are talking about a business that interfaces with the public like an airline it is very important to know what kind of a slant an expression, issue, name, etc. can take. And again for all your inputs sincerely thank you.
I further apologize for any divisive or offensive remarks I may have made or suggested. I will even wipe the signature "I'm Blessed" off any future correspondence. I use that term because people often ask "How are you doing?" I'm not always doing great, but neither am I sure they want to hear a/b my issues. Irregardless, I figure I'm doing better than I deserve, so why not just respond with "I'm Blessed". It really isn't for the purpose of starting controversy or wearing my "religion" on my sleeve. I returned from a red eye yesterday and my 11 year old son had breakfast and a newspaper on the table waiting for me before he left for school......I guess "I'm Lucky"! My teenage daughter later came home from school and told me what an idiot I am and why don't I just leave on another 4day.... I guess "I'm not so Lucky".
Have a great day and enjoy the great Chinese food out there. We don't have a PF Chang nearby, but I visit them on every LAS overnight I get.

 

[Bluto]

Mmm, Pei Wei. Pronounced "pay way".

 

[Timebuilder]

Ah.

Maybe they mean "pay way less".

 

[brianjohn]

I'm Blessed--
Don't even think about changing any of it!!!
It's great you have it up there. You didn't cram anything down anyone's throats and if they don't like it, they have the right to ignore it.
You aren't doing anything wrong!
I am blessed too!
Keep it on there!

 

[brianjohn]

TXCAP4228-
You are right, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone's personal beliefs. Doing it in a way as to poke fun is totally different. Using the term "religious wacko" is certainly poking fun. It's also stereotyping. I'm not saying you did that, but in my opinion this whole mess got started by someone using the term "religious wacko" for no apparant reason.
It's quite alright to disagree with me, but if it's done in an irrational and cynical way, I would get defensive.