Wings Air @ LZU

[Snakum]

Well G-Force, seems you've been fired yet again. What's this ... three times now? And as usual it is THEIR fault. And THEY broke rules and are unethical and blah blah blah.

John, you need to look hard at yourself. Getting fired from every aviation job you've ever had and then gettoing on here and wringing out the owners/managers in public is not a good sign that you're emotionally mature/stable. Seriously.

Time for a career change.

 

[G-force]

TIRADES of SNAKUM!!

Well G-Force, seems you've been fired yet again. What's this ... three times now? And as usual it is THEIR fault. And THEY broke rules and are unethical and blah blah blah.

John, you need to look hard at yourself. Getting fired from every aviation job you've ever had and then gettoing on here and wringing out the owners/managers in public is not a good sign that you're emotionally mature/stable. Seriously.

Time for a career change.

Hey dude,the pilots at these places that I worked AGREE with me more so than with you!!I guess SAFETY,adherence to FAR's,good MX,and NOT being DUMPED-ON NON-STOP by mgmt is simply not important to YOU, but it is important to thousands of pilots, so you are probably a mgr. somewhere doing all of these things to the pilots at your work place!!
So do not give me any advice,I do not need any from you!!
You dude,need to take some VALLIUM!!!

 

[climbhappy]

Valium has One "L" but on a serious note, you just don't play your cards right. If you think they're that bad, you wait til you're flying and you have a POI ready to come ramp check the airplane. there are ways to get "those ba$tards "if they're as bad as you say. I just think you're throwing the penalty flag on them to their face and they're blowing you out for telling them how to run their business. In the end if a piston banger is making oil pressure and you fly , what say 75 miles each leg to ATL, you could just about choose one of 20 airports on the way.

What are they doing that is so unsafe because you have not bothered to say? sure a current pitot static needs to be done. 100 signed off, but if it was out on the day you flew or ran out the night before and I ran the business and I asked you to fly this one trip and we'd get it into maint that night and you didn't play ball ...and I had to cancel and turn away 6 good customers, I'd fire your butt too. you just don't get it and given that example, I'd say you weren't a team player and you're gone.

so, what were the squawks? do tell?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well G-Force, seems you've been fired yet again. What's this ... three times now? And as usual it is THEIR fault. And THEY broke rules and are unethical and blah blah blah.

John, you need to look hard at yourself. Getting fired from every aviation job you've ever had and then gettoing on here and wringing out the owners/managers in public is not a good sign that you're emotionally mature/stable. Seriously.

Time for a career change.

You mean you actually KNOW this guy?

G-force, you've been canned from three outfits? It doesn't surprise me given your online attitude.

Sorry to hear though. Take a Valium as well. Life is short.

 

[Snakum]

I know of him, from folks in the INT area.

As a minimum, he was let go from ...

... a 135 outfit in the Midwest ... their fault, because they were cheap and didn't follow regs.

... a small air taxi op in Greenville, SC flying single pilot. They made promises they didn't keep.

... another 135 op in Georgia. They wouldn't follow regs.

And I wouldn't swear to it, but I believe there was a King Air operator between the Cirrus and the most recent firing, and there was a rumour of a stint at Seagrave, too.

G, if one place cans you for not playing ball I can buy it. I've seen some shady stuff in my very short part-time career. It happens. But three or four? Nope. I don't buy it. I am serious when I say find a new career. This one just doesn't agree with you.

Seriously.

 

[pdkaviator]

G-Force dumba$$

"Dude" every post begins with Dude. What are you? twelve?

 

[G-force]

Turkeys Can Lie!!!

I know of him, from folks in the INT area.

As a minimum, he was let go from ...

... a 135 outfit in the Midwest ... their fault, because they were cheap and didn't follow regs.

... a small air taxi op in Greenville, SC flying single pilot. They made promises they didn't keep.

... another 135 op in Georgia. They wouldn't follow regs.

And I wouldn't swear to it, but I believe there was a King Air operator between the Cirrus and the most recent firing, and there was a rumour of a stint at Seagrave, too.

G, if one place cans you for not playing ball I can buy it. I've seen some shady stuff in my very short part-time career. It happens. But three or four? Nope. I don't buy it. I am serious when I say find a new career. This one just doesn't agree with you.

Seriously.

Hey turkey,you are great at making up STUFF,why don't you get a job in the MEDIA???
Go back and live in your DREAM WORLD,where everthing is perfect,all Pt.135 operators are perfect, all mgmt. are perfect,where all pilots are treated as HUMAN BEINGS,and the weather is always severe clear!!!
That is your WORLD !!
If you want to go ahead and defend the actions of this outfit,go ahead and you can look all the more foolish for doing so!!!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

An Observation...

G-force, you seem to think heavily inside the box. Maybe be more open-minded in life. You might be able to hang on to your jobs longer.

If you don't mind me asking, (as this would clarify things greatly) were you born in a country where english is the native language? Perhaps what many of us read is more a language barrier, open to misinterpretation of sentiment.

 

[climbhappy]

G force, please tell me the squawk you wouldn't fly with?

was the 100 hour out? if so for how long? what did they say?

avionics in and out like an old KT76?

these planes aren't that sophisticated. I think if you'll actually back up the allegations here with some facts, you might even win support. with the kind of reply and rebuke you always throw back...a la "kool aid, bleach chasers, tirades, a perfect world...and on and on and on... lay it out there. l am reasonable, maybe some others are too.

you can't get in trouble, just don't name actual times and places or names. we already know the company, though.

 

[G-force]

No Time For Debate

you can't get in trouble, just don't name actual times and places or names. we already know the company, though.[/

quote]

How about not defending these BUMS in mgmt at this outfit,am really not in the mood to listen to it,squawks were not the MAJOR issue here!!
So do not be a CLUCKING TURKEY like some of these other numb-nuts on this forum!!
Do you really want to defend BOTTOM-FEEDERS like these BUMS??
Think of how FOOLISH you would look!!
We will talk later.

 

[Max Q]

Generally, nobody here is defending management.

It's just that nobody is going to side with an irrational loudmouth spouting off on a public forum that can't even post in the correct location. Your very first post was plagued with punctuation and grammar errors. It was obviously posted in a fit of rage and nobody is going to take that kind of garbage seriously.

You have done nothing to earn even the slightest bit of credibility and for that, nobody believes a single word you say. You've basically reduced yourself to a loudmouth whistleblower that is absolutely incapable of maintaining a job flipping hamburgers. We are only interested in poking fun at you and generally adding fuel to the flame.

Your next step would be to beg a moderator to delete the whole thread, apologize for forcing us to listen to all your garbage, and then start a new thread in the charter forum, utilizing proper spelling and grammar, avoiding all caps, cut the name calling, and leave specific names out.

Next time, follow these steps:

Fly safe.
Refuse aircraft.
Get fired.
Apply for and be awarded another job.
Repeat until you end up with a job that won’t fire you for flying safe.
Watch 6 o clock news about your previous employers crashing airplanes.

(Happens to me all the time… just last week actually)

-Brett

 

[G-force]

An Expert For Sure!!

Generally, nobody here is defending management.

It's just that nobody is going to side with an irrational loudmouth spouting off on a public forum that can't even post in the correct location. Your very first post was plagued with punctuation and grammar errors. It was obviously posted in a fit of rage and nobody is going to take that kind of garbage seriously.

You have done nothing to earn even the slightest bit of credibility and for that, nobody believes a single word you say. You've basically reduced yourself to a loudmouth whistleblower that is absolutely incapable of maintaining a job flipping hamburgers. We are only interested in poking fun at you and generally adding fuel to the flame.

Your next step would be to beg a moderator to delete the whole thread, apologize for forcing us to listen to all your garbage, and then start a new thread in the charter forum, utilizing proper spelling and grammar, avoiding all caps, cut the name calling, and leave specific names out.

Next time, follow these steps:

Fly safe.
Refuse aircraft.
Get fired.
Apply for and be awarded another job.
Repeat until you end up with a job that won’t fire you for flying safe.
Watch 6 o clock news about your previous employers crashing airplanes.

(Happens to me all the time… just last week actually)

-Brett

Who DIED and made you GOD ?????
There are several pilots that can attest to everything I have said!!!!!

 

[wildbill]

John,
I have had just about enough of your crying and whining. Being a part of management of this company I will no longer put up with your bashing. I could share with this board why you are no longer with this company, but being a gentleman I will not. We could discuss a lot of things. If you continue to include me in your discussion I will forget to keep my mouth shut. As with any company there may be problems, but violation of maintenance proceedures or FAR's are not in the mix. You continue to expound on things that are not true. As the others have suggested you may look into a match book cover for a truck driving school nearest you. In this business, a reputation is paramount to success and slowly but surely you are flushing yourself down the toilet. We may not have the newest equipment, pay the best or have the benefits of the heavy iron carriers, but I appreciate the pilots and staff who have chosen to make our small airline home. We are small and growing but the doors are still open to discuss legitimate problems. You should have taken advantage of it while you were still here and not after it was too late. I feel our pilots are truly professionals and I respect them as such.
You need to move on and get a life.....

 

[Max Q]

Who DIED and made you GOD ?????
There are several pilots that can attest to everything I have said!!!!!

Terrific. Why are you yelling again? :laugh:

-God

*stows bellow*

 

[climbhappy]

I thought the saying was "Who died and left you pope?'

 

[DX Rick]

Hey dude,the pilots at these places that I worked AGREE with me more so than with you!!!!!

Yes, we all know your type.
You're the one that comes into the crew room, ranting and raving about who knows what, getting everyone involved...as we just nod our heads, smile and say "yeah, I agree".
But the second you walk away, we all look around and ask each other "what the hell was that all about?"

Sounds like you need to find a new job.

 

[G-force]

Good Spin Mgr.

John,
I have had just about enough of your crying and whining. Being a part of management of this company I will no longer put up with your bashing. I could share with this board why you are no longer with this company, but being a gentleman I will not. We could discuss a lot of things. If you continue to include me in your discussion I will forget to keep my mouth shut. As with any company there may be problems, but violation of maintenance proceedures or FAR's are not in the mix. You continue to expound on things that are not true. As the others have suggested you may look into a match book cover for a truck driving school nearest you. In this business, a reputation is paramount to success and slowly but surely you are flushing yourself down the toilet. We may not have the newest equipment, pay the best or have the benefits of the heavy iron carriers, but I appreciate the pilots and staff who have chosen to make our small airline home. We are small and growing but the doors are still open to discuss legitimate problems. You should have taken advantage of it while you were still here and not after it was too late. I feel our pilots are truly professionals and I respect them as such.
You need to move on and get a life.....

Your tirade is nothing more than the official company spin pretending to be RIGHTEOUS!!How come the former chief pilot and other pilots say that your outfit is not righteous??? I am just repeating what I know and what they know!!

Why doesn'y your outfit atleast PAY the pilots that are owed pay after they are are fired for no good reason??I know of atleast one person that is owed back pay but has not gotten it as of this date!
Try and find me atleast one pilot on this forum that approves of not getting paid what they are owed???

Your oufit being the way it is run,the way it treats pilots,is nothing more than a poster child for UNIONS!!!

 

[Ground Loop]

Look G-force. I know that company very well and it is what it is. If you have all the experience that your profile suggests, then you should have known what to expect. I worked there before SM was even hired and before they heard of you, so I might know something.

The truth is RR is probably gonna make it. He is driven and has his goal in sight. I probably left there too early. The going got very tough and I couldn't hang. But they are well funded right now and giving good pilots a place to work in a VERY poor market.

I would work there again if I needed to and they would have me. The place is full a good people trying to make it.

I know all the stories about pilots checks bouncing and them not getting paid, some of the stories you are referring to are probably about me. Let me say that I know of NO PILOT that has not gotten their money out of Wings. It may take a minute, but they got it.

Let me also say that I have no reason to defend them, quite the contrary. After I left I heard about alot of bad mouthing, bashing and name calling that was directed at me. So be it.

Good luck in this business around ATL. Kinda small community and very competitive. Try to keep your nose clean and don't bend anything and maybe you'll make it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

G-force, sounds like you're airing grievances after being fired; not before. If you were so concerned about the way things were being operated, you should've resigned rather than wait to get canned (justified or not) and spout off negatively about their operations.

So why were you let go. At this point Wings is well aware of who you are at this point. Perhaps you could fill us in with an honest play-by-play of what really transpired. You might even garner some support.

 

[climbhappy]

I've been demanding some facts and he finally showed up


He claims through a PM that he flew to athens and the weather was forecast good. they flew 3 MAPs and saw nothing at 200. the training pilot then took the same FO and the FO says they got in but by busting mins and saw the lead ins at 100.

says five or six went missed. it should be on the ATL apr tapes for that day. also , the weather would be noted.

and he says the CP got fired for backing him up.

Spout off ranter or not, if you get fired for refusing to cheat and possibly become an artillery shell then fine.

I just found out a friend who had rec'd the guy that flew the hendricks crowd into Bull Mtn got fired just for the referral. He was a Saab 50 cpt. It is amazing how kneee jerkers who are grieving want to shoot and kill anyone who remotely had anything to do with it. That guy had 10,000 hours flying 1900s up north. even though it was a complete cockpit breakdown, failing to fly the published MISS is sad and awful.

 

[G-force]

To Amish & Groundloop

G-force, sounds like you're airing grievances after being fired; not before. If you were so concerned about the way things were being operated, you should've resigned rather than wait to get canned (justified or not) and spout off negatively about their operations.

So why were you let go. At this point Wings is well aware of who you are at this point. Perhaps you could fill us in with an honest play-by-play of what really transpired. You might even garner some support.

You two dudes are reading too much into the tirades and empty rhetoric of others on this thread,notably mr.wildbill at Wings Air.

My specific gripe is this,when a captain has to execute 3 MAP's at AHN and then returns to LZU since all 3 approaches went to minimums(200 & 1/2),then 3 weeks later that captain is fired for not BUSTING MINIMUMS.Then 3 weeks after that,the chief pilot is fired for trying to back up the captain.What does this tell you about Wings Air?? I'll tell you what tells me,this place is an ACCIDENT waiting to happen!!! Some un-suspecting ticket holder/pax is going to LOSE his /her life if this continues,not to mention the CREW!!! This is as UN-PRESSIONAL and UN-ETHICAL as it gets and busting minimums is ILLEGAL!!! You got a problem with that???

So now you can see the diatribes of persons on here like wildbill, do not have a leg to stand on,but wildbill drinks the Wings Air Kool-Aid and is going to spout the company line as the spin-mgr.
So lets face some more facts,if I did not have anything on these bums at Wings Air,then why is wildbill,a mgmt person so upset???? Go figure!

Yes,on the day in question at AHN,about 8 to 10 other aircraft went MAP after failing to see anything during an ILS app runway 27!!!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

G-force,

What were the specific reasons provided by management for being terminated? Like what shows up on your PRIA.

Why did it take 3 weeks after this incident. What took place after your return that day and the weeks leading up to the dismissal.

From what you've stated, you made the right decision not to bust minimums if indeed you couldn't see the lights. If there were nearly a dozen of AC going missed, then it wouldn't seem that unusual. There seems to be more to the story than whats been told. Otherwise, you might have a lawsuit on your hands potentially.

 

[acpilot]

A scumbag operator is a scumbag operator. Having worked for one, I can say it's better to up and leave rather than risk violation...or worse. I remember all the rhetoric regarding their "professional" behavior; we still joke about it. They actually told us that we had an FAA waiver for duty times!

I don't know the operator that G-Force is referring to, but I am not inclined to believe that any 135 cargo op. flying beater Navajos is a 100% FAR abiding outfit. The cargo biz is a cutthroat sector; every cost needs to be minimized. Based on what I've seen at other companies, I would believe the pilots are told to "make it work" or face some sort of punishment. I've seen genuinely good pilots fired for skidding a plane off of an icy runway...and then I've seen "company men" do much, much worse, get it swept under the rug, and then get promoted! If you fold to mgmt's demands, ignore regulations when they "get in the way," never EVER question mgmt, and rarely write anything up, you'll do well in a 135 cargo op. If you stand up to mgmt and follow the the FAR's to the letter, you'll be sold down the river to the FAA as soon as you screw up.

Don't get me wrong, 135 cargo serves a purpose. It teaches pilots a lot about flying airplanes very quickly. My hat is off to those who choose to do it.

I don't know what kind of pilot G-Force really is, but I generally believe that 135 cargo ops. leave A LOT to be desired in terms of FAR adherance and aircraft MX. You should already know that going into a 135 cargo job, though.

 

[climbhappy]

if the chief pilot did get fired for backing him as he says , then the problem is bigger than G force. I think these guys must compete with the caravan operator and , if customers think, "well these guys seem to get job done all the time (which is why they'll come back) then they may never know how dangerous it was and how easily their lives could have been snubbed out.

last year, some lousy pilot from georgia brought a king air full of politicians and rich guys up to Mayberry, NC (MT Airy.)

flew a GPS approach in weather than was below mins for the GPS. went missed then tried a VFR pattern to landing and crashed all iced up on 030 heading ( RY36 was in use.)

that's a case of a 600 hour wonder being way over his head.

 

[captainv]

G-Force,

I would hope you've taken your story to the ATL FSDO with half the effort you've expended here.

If the place is as bad as you say, getting fired could be the best thing that's happened to you, and you can explain it in a future interview, especially if the fired CP backs you up.

I would suggest that your mission to warn other pilots has been completed. Shrug off the personal attacks and put your energies elsewhere, you've done your part. Let it go.

One other thing, Wings Air is a regional?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

One other thing, Wings Air is a regional?

http://www.flywingsair.com/

Small op doing Navajo hops around the ATL area.

 

[BWatz]

I think they have FO's and don't actually pay them anything. I have been told that by multiple people. I hope that's not true.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I think they have FO's and don't actually pay them anything. I have been told that by multiple people. I hope that's not true.

It probably is. They don't need one with an AP. Most of these ops charge the PAX extra for a second pilot, which under the regs. isn't needed. The guys who end up sitting for free gain time and experience out of it instead of monetary compensation. I don't say this is a fair practice, but it is what it is in these type of ops. When I got my minimum certificates, I used to do these 135 Baron trips for $50 a day. The outfit charged the passenger $150-$200 unbeknownst, for a guy with a wet commerical. Rarely got to touch the controls unless the leg was empty. At the time, I thought it a big deal flying paying passengers around in a Baron, even though I wasn't flying!

 

[BWatz]

It probably is. They don't need one with an AP. Most of these ops charge the PAX extra for a second pilot, which under the regs. isn't needed. The guys who end up sitting for free gain time and experience out of it instead of monetary compensation. I don't say this is a fair practice, but it is what it is in these type of ops. When I got my minimum certificates, I used to do these 135 Baron trips for $50 a day. The outfit charged the passenger $150-$200 unbeknownst, for a guy with a wet commerical. Rarely got to touch the controls unless the leg was empty. At the time, I thought it a big deal flying paying passengers around in a Baron, even though I wasn't flying!

I can't believe someone would actually do that for free...

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I can't believe someone would actually do that for free...

I'm sure you've been around long enough to believe it. There's no shortage of operations that CHARGE YOU (Gulfstream, for example) for the privilege of flying right seat. Given the opportunity, most inexperienced pilots will be more than glad to ride along for free. These are NOT FO's. They're not qualified to do anything other than learn with passengers onboard. It's a sham for the customer who thinks they're getting an equally competant pilot by paying extra, when in reality its a time-building seat warmer.