Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[Dash Power]

I don't think you're worried about that at all. What you're worried about is that you're not going to be happy after the merger. Ty will be fine, and I suspect you will be, too, if you stop worrying about everyone else and just worry about yourself.

Ty,


Whats the worst that can happen to me? Relative seniority.(won't happen) What am I losing?

What is the worst that can happen to you? Staple. (won't happen) What are you likely to lose? Somewhere in the middle.

The middle is where I gain and you lose SENIORITY.

Your welcome for the huge quality of life increase I have spent a good amount of time earning for you. And I thank you for the increase seniority you will be giving to all my SWA brothers and sisters. That is what a win/win situation is all about.

Together we are going to kick some serious booty in this crappy airline business. And we both gain because of our efforts.

So why am I worried......?

 

[Ty Webb]

I think you just made my point for me. . . . . . And the rest of your post is consists of doing exactly what our unions have asked us NOT to do.

TW

 

[BlueYonder]

The middle is where I gain and you lose SENIORITY.

.

Some seem to think that the only way they can get ahead is if someone else loses.

The improvement in pay for Airtran pilots will not be at the expense of a single SWA pilot. A loss of seniority will most certainly be at the expense of the Airtran pilots.

I wonder which option an arbitrator will consider to be "fair and equitable"

 

[MILPILOT17]

.

Some seem to think that the only way they can get ahead is if someone else loses.

The improvement in pay for Airtran pilots will not be at the expense of a single SWA pilot. A loss of seniority will most certainly be at the expense of the Airtran pilots.

I wonder which option an arbitrator will consider to be "fair and equitable"

I don't know, but I have a feeling we're going to find out. Good luck fellas!

 

[Dash Power]

I think you just made my point for me. . . . . . And the rest of your post is consists of doing exactly what our unions have asked us NOT to do.

TW

You are really a weird dude......

You have engaged with this more than most, if not all, others on this topic.

 

[Ty Webb]

You are really a weird dude......

Probably not . . . . You've been wrong about everything else; at least you're consistent. :laugh:

 

[labatt]

You are really a weird dude......

You have engaged with this more than most, if not all, others on this topic.

Just wait until you meet him!

 

[General Lee]

Hey JonJuan,

What part of windfall do you not get? Kinda like the Airtran guys that were high fiving each other in the LGA terminal the morning of the acquisition announcement.

Roman,

I picked Mesa and Airtran because the pay differences and pilot longevity are similar to the AAI/SW deal. Pretty much apples to apples. But no one would touch it..funny.

General,

I appreciate your fairly rational post, I say that honestly. I do agree that it could be a great airline but I have a couple of questions for you. Beyond a 5 percent pay bump for the DL pilots, how much stock did the DL side get? Was it based on seniority or split evenly? I haven't heard many people discuss that angle and thought you might know.

Your right about Gary running the COMPANY merger. So far it hasn't gotten too involved lately with the SLI. Your a little off base as far as how SWAPA will be involved. SWAPA has the full power to negotiate the transition agreement, so they do hold the reins on that. There will be no JCBA like the DL merger. As a matter of fact, this acquisition is nothing like the DL/NW merger and for people to say differently are really lacking in the facts.

RF

Red,

Fair and rational post? You bet, I AM A CHANGED MAN MY BROTHER!! Anyway, as far as the stock goes, it depended on your longevity, and I think the "average" amount was 3600 shares per pilot. Captains got a little more, junior FOs got a little less. I think the stock price back then was around $6 dollars, and it has fluctuated and is now at around $13-14. Thank Gawd I didn't sell any, but I know many who sold it all at around $6 thinking it could never go up. It may go up to $20 or more eventually after all of the mergers finish.

And, you're right, I don't exactly know how SWAPA is going to handle this with AT, but it would be foolish to have a B-scale, so we know that won't happen. It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

As far as the SLI goes, SWAPA won't have much to do at all. That will very likely go to arbitration, and then the lawyers will have to fight it out. Roman was right when he said you comparing Mesa to AT vs SWA was like comparing apples to oranges. The arbitrators will take a look at both companies, and see how they compare. SWA has been around longer, so that will have an impact on the SLI, no doubt. Maybe the top 1/4th will all be SWA pilots. (?) But, from there the airlines look a lot a like, they are both profitable, they have about the same type of planes, and both bring a lot to the table. You can't keep minimizing what AT does for a "new" SWA. Sure, SWA is a profit monster, but AT brings even more SWA's way with more slots in very restrictive airports (LGA and new flights to DCA), and it opens up ATL, which is huge. That will all lead to a healthier company for you. But, if you are in the bottom 3/4s at SWA, you most likely will be affected with the SLI, in some way or the other. That is the way it goes. Have a good one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ivauir]

It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

Not exactly. For an apples to apples comparison you need to look at the complete fleets. We have hardly any 500's (we'll have way more 800s, with 175 seats, in the near future), and AirTran operates a fleet dominated by the 717. For a more apt comparison look at 117 seats vs 137.

Think of it this way: SWA operates a handful of 122 seat aircraft at a rate established for a 137 seat aircraft. AAI operates a handful of 137 seat aircraft at a rate established for a 117 seat aircraft.

I hope we do get a single rate across the fleet as it promotes efficiency, and reduces training events. Hopefully the markets opened by a smaller aircraft will offset the reduction in ASM's/aircraft and the ensuing reduction in revenue potential.

 

[islandhoper]

Red,

Fair and rational post? You bet, I AM A CHANGED MAN MY BROTHER!! Anyway, as far as the stock goes, it depended on your longevity, and I think the "average" amount was 3600 shares per pilot. Captains got a little more, junior FOs got a little less. I think the stock price back then was around $6 dollars, and it has fluctuated and is now at around $13-14. Thank Gawd I didn't sell any, but I know many who sold it all at around $6 thinking it could never go up. It may go up to $20 or more eventually after all of the mergers finish.

And, you're right, I don't exactly know how SWAPA is going to handle this with AT, but it would be foolish to have a B-scale, so we know that won't happen. It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

As far as the SLI goes, SWAPA won't have much to do at all. That will very likely go to arbitration, and then the lawyers will have to fight it out. Roman was right when he said you comparing Mesa to AT vs SWA was like comparing apples to oranges. The arbitrators will take a look at both companies, and see how they compare. SWA has been around longer, so that will have an impact on the SLI, no doubt. Maybe the top 1/4th will all be SWA pilots. (?) But, from there the airlines look a lot a like, they are both profitable, they have about the same type of planes, and both bring a lot to the table. You can't keep minimizing what AT does for a "new" SWA. Sure, SWA is a profit monster, but AT brings even more SWA's way with more slots in very restrictive airports (LGA and new flights to DCA), and it opens up ATL, which is huge. That will all lead to a healthier company for you. But, if you are in the bottom 3/4s at SWA, you most likely will be affected with the SLI, in some way or the other. That is the way it goes. Have a good one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Amen.....

 

[OldManPilot]

this is what i find most amazing about the whole process..

Prior to september, we had more than a few aai pilots begging for a southwest purchase and staple. (and i understand that after the aai management beat down)

now? They want it all. 80 percent pay increase with realitive seniority and the major increase in qol that the southwest contract brings. Not to mention company stability.

Kinda leaves one dumbfounded.

Again, what's in the deal for the southwest pilots? Bueller?

growth, growth, growth!!!!

 

[OldManPilot]

A couple of things, that may or may not be interesting to you all. You can put this in the rumor file but still. Two B717 simulators are headed to DAL in January. Soon after the acquisition is complete, DEN will open as a crew base including B717 and B737 crews. Since this is not an existing crew base either group staffs it will be interesting who gets to staff these airplanes. Each B737 parked at a SWA domicile that was an AT aircraft will eventually be an originator out of an existing crew base.

No Flame only rumors. Cheers, sort out who will fly out of DEN and how you think a fence woulda shouds coulda who cares, fences will be irrelevant there is a good chance things need to get sorted out sooner than later for pilots who do not have as many airplanes in ATL to crew to sort out where they will go.

Figure that out will ya and let me know what you decide? I have no idea.

Where are they getting the B717 sims?? The two we use are owned by Alteon not AirTran. I think I will have to call BS on this rumor. AirTran could not go without them for the time required to move them and get them re-certified.

 

[Ty Webb]

Just wait until you meet him!

Wanna go campin'?

:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Run,,, I hear Banjo Music!

 

[ATLplt]

.

The improvement in pay for Airtran pilots will not be at the expense of a single SWA pilot. A loss of seniority will most certainly be at the expense of the Airtran pilots.

I wonder which option an arbitrator will consider to be "fair and equitable"

Well said. We'll all find out soon enough.