Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[funnyman12]

Gary kelly has stated that it would take SWA 10 years to internally grow Atl, the Lga and Dca slots, and the international ops without the AAI acquisition. Maybe a benefit for all at SWA would be a quicker opportunity for widebody flying in 10 years. Once domestic capacity is maxes out SWA will naturally look for bigger international flying. This could speed up that opportunity.

 

[Kharma Police]

The AI pilots on this forum have been pushing relative seniority. It's gone over like a lead balloon since SWA pilots won't get the pay bump the AI pilots will get and will lose expected internal seniority improvements.

We've been waiting for a huge number of 60+ pilots to retire. 500 may not seem like a lot to some. However, that's 20-25% of the pilots on the seniority list above junior captains. It's enough to upgrade 20% of the SWA FOs.

Also, SWA pilots have been waiting expectantly for ramped up internal growth--which has always come with an improved economy. The internal growth, combined with retirements, would help out every SWA pilot. Alas, the aquisition of Airtran replaces that expected internal growth. There's too much for SWA to focus on and a huge amount of capital sunk into the purchase of AAI. Hence, it's another loss of upward growth for pilots even though it will be good for stockholders and the financial health of the company.

Thank you for your response. I would ask that since you guys are now hiring quite a bit for 2011 would that not be indicative of growth and potential upgrades?

 

[PapaWoody]

Since I gave a sincere honest answer, I have a sincere question for you "SWA bubbas". What will you lose with this deal? I know you guys don't think you will gain anything but what will the negative impact be for you and your career?

In all sincerity, Kharma, I think the thing that most SWA guys have a problem with is the insistence by AAI guys that it would be "fair and equitable" to integrate you guys into our list in a way in which guys hired at AirTran later than guys hired at SWA had more seniority. Nothing could be more unfair or more non-equitable, imho. Couple the FACT that getting hired at AAI is easier than getting hired at SWA (objective statement-your min qualifications are lower) with the other issues like our better contract, schedule quality, QoL, benefits, work environment, etc., and hopefully you can see how we would arrive at that conclusion. I'm not suggesting any course of action with regards to the SLI, but if there is a negotiated/arbitrated decision that awards a single AAI guy better seniority than DoH, then imho fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

PS I know the stock rebuttal is relative was the course taken by the arbitrator in USA/AWA and DAL/NWA, so my stock answer to that is this is a "whole different animal", for a myriad of reasons. And for the record, I don't blame a single AAI guy for working to get relative seniority, you are just playing the hand you were dealt. Please don't take it personally that SWAPA pilots argue that it will never happen.

 

[ProFracPilot]

In all sincerity, Kharma, I think the thing that most SWA guys have a problem with is the insistence by AAI guys that it would be "fair and equitable" to integrate you guys into our list in a way in which guys hired at AirTran later than guys hired at SWA had more seniority. Nothing could be more unfair or more non-equitable, imho.

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight. But it seems that what you're addressing is the difference between seniority (for seat position) and longevity. I'd think that a JCBA would have to address this issue before a SLI could take place.

 

[redflyer65]

Well said Papa. You hit the nail on the head.

RF

 

[PapaWoody]

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight. But it seems that what you're addressing is the difference between seniority (for seat position) and longevity. I'd think that a JCBA would have to address this issue before a SLI could take place.

Well, since we all work in a longevity-based seniority system, the two issues are closely related, and will be considered as such by an arbitrator, imo.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Ty Webb]

if there is a negotiated/arbitrated decision that awards a single AAI guy better seniority than DoH, then imho fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall, taking away from one and giving it to another) then fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

I guess we have reached the point of diminishing returns in this thread. Time to let the SLI NC's do their work, and if they can't find a suitable solution (and judging from this board, that looks likely) let neutral arbitrators handle it. I'm willing to accept their decision . . . . are you?

Regds,
Ty

 

[vixin]

I am more then ready to accept their decision. You make it sound like we will get screwed by an arbitraitor. Why is that?

 

[Lowrider717]

...if they can't find a suitable solution (and judging from this board, that looks likely) let neutral arbitrators handle it.
Regds,
Ty

Judging by what gets posted on this board? That would be like going to a horse race and predicting the winner by using the MLB season stats.

 

[ivauir]

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall ...

Really?

I think a 50% pay raise and better work rules is a better "textbook" example of a windfall.

 

[Cruncher]

Vixin, (typin on my phone, ...)
Maybe because any loss in seniority will be offset by enormous increases in career expectations, QOL, ... AAI is a fairly young group of pilots, everyone single person ontheir list (regardless of how the sli shakes up, gains $$$$). Junior swa pilots stand to gain small gains in seniorty.

 

[Kharma Police]

Really?

I think a 50% pay raise and better work rules is a better "textbook" example of a windfall.

So, if I was put back to the right seat I would still get a 50% raise based on your pay structure? That would be cool by me (if it were true)!

 

[SWAdude]

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall, taking away from one and giving it to another) then fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

And that could easily happen also with a Southwest Captain with domicile seniority due to monthly fluctuations.

Personally, if we went direct relative seniority, I would be junior to someone who has five years less longevity than I. That would not be fair. The only person that may find that fair would be the Airtran person just ahead of me in seniority.

Just for the Airtran guys information, after talking with many of my fellow pilots, there is not one that finds relative seniority to be remotely "fair and equitable" with this acquisition. No matter what they are telling you on the jumpseat. And I can assume our union leadership knows that about us. As well as our company management.

If this is going to go smoothly so that we have a minimum of ill will, Airtran pilots will have to understand that we ALL see you getting a windfall with everything besides seniority. And the hell if we are going to give you seniority without regards to your DOH as well.

Besides the companies gates, routes and planes, (we have much, much more of the same) what does the Airtran pilot group offer the Southwest pilot group? I can tell you.

NOTHING

We are happy to give you our hard earned pay, benefits and schedules. But you are going to experience a huge resistance if you diminish the value of mine and our longevity.

 

[ivauir]

So, if I was put back to the right seat I would still get a 50% raise based on your pay structure? That would be cool by me (if it were true)!

No, it wouldn't be 50% more if you get displaced. But it would still be a raise. So you would get more pay, holidays and weekends off and a far more lucrative career.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Okay, how about Stalin instead?

Kharma,

Do you currently hold any position with the union at Airtran? That would include any volunteer positions?