Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[BlueBlood]

I love you more. Does that sound gay?

 

[Skybus]

Scarry to realize that everyone on here is trusted with peoples lives. If the average Joe the plumber followed this site it would be a sure cure to Amtrack's ills.

Bus

 

[Ty Webb]

Keep telling yourself how smart you are. My comments have nothing to do with whether or not this goes to arbitration. Is this the example of your level of intelligence?

My point, which you obviously missed, was that if your comments reflect the mindset of the pilots of SWA, it will go to arbitration for sure, because the difference in the the expectations of the two pilot groups is too vast.

The SWA pilots vote on an agreement. The AT pilots do not. Gee, who has more control?

There is no law that says we must integrate you into our seniority..

You seem to be about 20 pages behind in this discussion, perhaps you should learn more about it before wasting anymore keystrokes.

The fact that the SWA pilots vote on the ISL (Integrated Seniority List) doesn't give you more control, it just virtually guarantees it will go to arbitration (which is the opposite of control).

I hate to tell you this, Clarence Darrow, but there are a number of laws that say specifically that the two lists must be combined, as do covenants in our CBA and yours too.

That ought to bring you up to at least mid-October in this thread, Sporto.

And last, relax, buddy. You're going to blow a gasket over this. It's not that important in the scheme of things, and none of will have much say or control over it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Scarry to realize that everyone on here is trusted with peoples lives. If the average Joe the plumber followed this site it would be a sure cure to Amtrack's ills.

Bus

They would probably be alarmed in equal parts by both the ideas and the spelling.

 

[Aviator2010]

Here is my suggestion / prediction on the SLI. All AT First Officers be stapled with AT longevity pay. The Captains get 1 year SWA seniority for every 2 year of AT seniority and will be payprotected with AT longevity pay at their new position. I would guess about 100 AT Captains will stay Captains and the rest be spread amongst SWA First Officers. About 700 SWA First Officers would upgrade.

 

[Ty Webb]

This kind of attitude will destroy this airline.

What attitude? I'm simply stating that it doesn't matter what any of us are "willing" to accept, we will all have to accept it. Here it is again:

"It doesn't matter what the SWA Pilots will accept, anymore than it matters what AT pilots will accept".

 

[Ty Webb]

Here is my suggestion / prediction on the SLI. All AT First Officers be stapled with AT longevity pay. The Captains get 1 year SWA seniority for every 2 year of AT seniority and will be payprotected with AT longevity pay at their new position. I would guess about 100 AT Captains will stay Captains and the rest be spread amongst SWA First Officers. About 700 SWA First Officers would upgrade.

Wow- a "solution" that flouts current law, past precedent, and common sense.

You do realize, of course, that you're simply posting nonsense here to reinforce your own delusions? :laugh:

 

[ivauir]

Wow- a "solution" that flouts current law, past precedent, and common sense.

You do realize, of course, that you're simply posting nonsense here to reinforce your own delusions? :laugh:

Ty,

This is what I mean about your attitude:

You bitterly attack anyone who references an SLI that is less than relative seniority. Talk about delusions!

There was absolutely nothing in the proposed solution that defies any aspect of the law. There is, in fact, precedence to support such a SLI (Alaska/Jet America, Transtar/SWA).

It is like you think you can affect the out come by your outrageous posturing.

If your pilot group shows up demanding to win in every category of career expectations you will either ruin this airline or destroy this deal. I am confident in which choice Gary Kelly will make. I suggest you take a large chill pill, sprinkle in some humility and stop spouting off like you know everything about AGM or B/M.

This is a great opportunity for you. Please don't blow it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

This is what I mean about your attitude:

You bitterly attack anyone who references an SLI that is less than relative seniority. Talk about delusions!

I'm not "bitterly attacking" anyone, even if they are operating way outside of the realm of likely outcomes, as the previous poster was. A poster, btw, who has just joined flightinfo and this was his first post (hmmm- what a coincidence).

There was absolutely nothing in the proposed solution that defies any aspect of the law. There is, in fact, precedence to support such a SLI (Alaska/Jet America, Transtar/SWA).

Whatever gets you through the night.

I don't think there is anything to be gained here. All of your points have long since been refuted, some by people much more objective than you or I.

 

[Lear70]

Here is my suggestion / prediction on the SLI. All AT First Officers be stapled with AT longevity pay. The Captains get 1 year SWA seniority for every 2 year of AT seniority and will be payprotected with AT longevity pay at their new position. I would guess about 100 AT Captains will stay Captains and the rest be spread amongst SWA First Officers. About 700 SWA First Officers would upgrade.

If you want to anger and embitter every, single pilot at AirTran? Sure, go with that. You want to talk about Morris/SWA, the above example would certainly ENSURE animosity and "red book/green book" types of attitudes for DECADES to come.

This is what I mean about your attitude:

You bitterly attack anyone who references an SLI that is less than relative seniority. Talk about delusions!

Bitterly? Really? I don't get that from his post AT ALL.

I certainly have discussed solutions other than "relative seniority", and find the above post on the issue to be EXTREMELY INFLAMMATORY towards AirTran pilots. So much so that it borders on flame bait. Ty actually responded pretty calmly considering the post in question.

Any discussion on your side about stapling ANY large portion of the pilot group is going to be seen by the AirTran pilots just as negatively as "relative seniority" is seen by Southwest pilots. If someone can't understand that, then I would submit that they are not capable of taking an impartial look at this scenario.

There was absolutely nothing in the proposed solution that defies any aspect of the law. There is, in fact, precedence to support such a SLI (Alaska/Jet America, Transtar/SWA).

Both of which were before Bond/McCaskill, and neither of which involved the combination of two, profitable, LARGE airlines that were considered "Major" airlines. Therefore, those comparisons are invalid.

Thank GOD I know enough members of the Merger Committee well enough to know they would NEVER agree to anything NEAR a staple like is proposed above, and that it will go to arbitration long before discussions get anywhere close to that point.

 

[Cometman]

If you want to anger and embitter every, single pilot at AirTran? Sure, go with that. You want to talk about Morris/SWA, the above example would certainly ENSURE animosity and "red book/green book" types of attitudes for DECADES to come.


Bitterly? Really? I don't get that from his post AT ALL.

I certainly have discussed solutions other than "relative seniority", and find the above post on the issue to be EXTREMELY INFLAMMATORY towards AirTran pilots. So much so that it borders on flame bait. Ty actually responded pretty calmly considering the post in question.

Any discussion on your side about stapling ANY large portion of the pilot group is going to be seen by the AirTran pilots just as negatively as "relative seniority" is seen by Southwest pilots. If someone can't understand that, then I would submit that they are not capable of taking an impartial look at this scenario.


Both of which were before Bond/McCaskill, and neither of which involved the combination of two, profitable, LARGE airlines that were considered "Major" airlines. Therefore, those comparisons are invalid.

Thank GOD I know enough members of the Merger Committee well enough to know they would NEVER agree to anything NEAR a staple like is proposed above, and that it will go to arbitration long before discussions get anywhere close to that point.

With all due respect. If you consider Airtran a LARGE Airline, what would you consider Southwest?

 

[shootr]

Any discussion on your side about stapling ANY large portion of the pilot group is going to be seen by the AirTran pilots just as negatively as "relative seniority" is seen by Southwest pilots. If someone can't understand that, then I would submit that they are not capable of taking an impartial look at this scenario.

An interesting quote that can be taken two ways...

 

[scoreboardII]

Ty, you better hope it goes a little better for SWA pilots than your "expert opinion" or it will go to a "Morris solution", go look that up.

And Ty, you still haven't answered your premise that the SWAPA CBA will be changed and how, so what say you?

 

[Dash Power]

I get the bitterness. I get the arrogance. I get the fear. Who wouldn't want their cake and eat it too.

Career expectations for a pilot starts with DOH. Then you go to pay, benefits, seniority, and other QOL issues (vacation, schedule, work rules, etc)

You use these elements to determine "fair and equitable". The pay for an AT captain is similar to an SWA fo. SWA benefits are better to much better than AT. Other QOL issues are much, much better than AT. The gains for the AT guys up to this point are more than substantial. They are life changing. So what is equitable for the SWA pilots.
The only issue left is seniority.

There must be balance in the arbitrators eyes. And the AT pilots have nothing to bring as an enhancement to the table.

I read the fear in some of the AT pilots on this board. You need not be fearful of losing relative seniority. You are enormously better off being purchased by SWA.

 

[kwick]

Here is my suggestion / prediction on the SLI. All AT First Officers be stapled with AT longevity pay. The Captains get 1 year SWA seniority for every 2 year of AT seniority and will be payprotected with AT longevity pay at their new position. I would guess about 100 AT Captains will stay Captains and the rest be spread amongst SWA First Officers. About 700 SWA First Officers would upgrade.

Keep Dreaming!