Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[Cruncher]

Vixin, (typin on my phone, ...)
Maybe because any loss in seniority will be offset by enormous increases in career expectations, QOL, ... AAI is a fairly young group of pilots, everyone single person ontheir list (regardless of how the sli shakes up, gains $$$$). Junior swa pilots stand to gain small gains in seniorty.

 

[Kharma Police]

Really?

I think a 50% pay raise and better work rules is a better "textbook" example of a windfall.

So, if I was put back to the right seat I would still get a 50% raise based on your pay structure? That would be cool by me (if it were true)!

 

[SWAdude]

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall, taking away from one and giving it to another) then fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

And that could easily happen also with a Southwest Captain with domicile seniority due to monthly fluctuations.

Personally, if we went direct relative seniority, I would be junior to someone who has five years less longevity than I. That would not be fair. The only person that may find that fair would be the Airtran person just ahead of me in seniority.

Just for the Airtran guys information, after talking with many of my fellow pilots, there is not one that finds relative seniority to be remotely "fair and equitable" with this acquisition. No matter what they are telling you on the jumpseat. And I can assume our union leadership knows that about us. As well as our company management.

If this is going to go smoothly so that we have a minimum of ill will, Airtran pilots will have to understand that we ALL see you getting a windfall with everything besides seniority. And the hell if we are going to give you seniority without regards to your DOH as well.

Besides the companies gates, routes and planes, (we have much, much more of the same) what does the Airtran pilot group offer the Southwest pilot group? I can tell you.

NOTHING

We are happy to give you our hard earned pay, benefits and schedules. But you are going to experience a huge resistance if you diminish the value of mine and our longevity.

 

[ivauir]

So, if I was put back to the right seat I would still get a 50% raise based on your pay structure? That would be cool by me (if it were true)!

No, it wouldn't be 50% more if you get displaced. But it would still be a raise. So you would get more pay, holidays and weekends off and a far more lucrative career.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Okay, how about Stalin instead?

Kharma,

Do you currently hold any position with the union at Airtran? That would include any volunteer positions?

 

[Kharma Police]

No, it wouldn't be 50% more if you get displaced. But it would still be a raise. So you would get more pay, holidays and weekends off and a far more lucrative career.

Welcome aboard!

Very true, QOL is worth much more than money.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Okay, how about Stalin instead?

Hitler and Stalin? You are a real class act!

 

[Kharma Police]

Hitler and Stalin? You are a real class act!

It was a joke, guy! If it takes a little thing like that to get your feathers ruffled then I don't know what to tell you. I have tried to be civil and keep it clean, sorry for the reference. Besides, nothing says class like boobs formed from punctuation marks.........

 

[Richard Gozinya]

It was a joke, guy! If it takes a little thing like that to get your feathers ruffled then I don't know what to tell you. I have tried to be civil and keep it clean, sorry for the reference. Besides, nothing says class like boobs formed from punctuation marks.........

Great, moral equivalance...........a couple of punctuation marks to make a couple of boobs, to a whole pilot group who align themselves with the views of 2 of the worlds worst mass murders.

So, I take it you do work for the union since you didn't answer the question. Attacking the person who calls into question your remarks is right out of the thug handbook.

 

[Kharma Police]

Great, moral equivalance...........a couple of punctuation marks to make a couple of boobs, to a whole pilot group who align themselves with the views of 2 of the worlds worst mass murders.

So, I take it you do work for the union since you didn't answer the question. Attacking the person who calls into question your remarks is right out of the thug handbook.

Give it a rest, Dick. I didn't compare your group to those individuals, I made a illustration to the fact you will support anyone that shares your point of view regarding a staple. Next time I will say Mickey Mouse. Again, a joke to which I already apologized.

....and no I don't work for the union, my union works for me.

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

If this thread doesn't calm down, I'm going to lock it.

Kharma, I know Gozinya's screen name is pretty obvious to what the first word is supposed to be, but that's a prohibited word here. The only reason I'm leaving your post up is that you're apologizing and explaining and I have no way to edit the post without completely deleting it...

Everyone just CHILL... I'm serious, trying to stay hands-off with the moderating but if this doesn't calm down and go back to respectful discussion, I'm gonna lock the thread and put a 7-10 day moratorium on ANY SLI discussion on the board until people can cool off.

/mod

 

[Ty Webb]

Really?

I think a 50% pay raise and better work rules is a better "textbook" example of a windfall.

Then you don't grasp the meaning of the word "windfall", at least in the context of SLI. A windfall involves taking something from one group and giving it to the other.

The fact the SWA has higher hourly rates does not constitute a windfall, as it is not taking anything from SWA pilots.

After 20+ pages, none of the SWA pilots on this thread has really explained why they feel so put out by relative seniority.

If you are, say, at 30% on the SWA list right now, and would be at 30% on the combined list, what harm have you suffered? How has your QoL been affected? You are still right where you were.

As for the senior FO's at SWA, if you were at 60% on your list, and were at 60% of the combined list, how have you suffered?

 

[ivauir]

Ty,

You say "relative seniority" again and I will say "staple" or even "preferential interview".

Give it a rest. It won't happen and you know it.

 

[SWA/FO]

one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO

It will happen. And it will STILL be a raise. FACT.

 

[waveflyer]

Calm down, deep breath mental masturbators. I have an opinion. Lear has an opinion. We all have an opinion. And there's probably 5000+ of us that are super passionate about that opinion- but it very very fruitless to get attached to that- that's how things like Usair east happen- uncompromising attachment to the SLI.

It really is pointless- especially when both sides could be really excited about the future if we weren't ******************************bag pilots. This will be very good for both companies.

Even if I were stapled to the bottom of the combined list (which I'm not volunteering!), the career moving forward will be very good as long as we keep taking responsibility as individuals for keeping the culture up- financially, it will be very good- you just have to see 5 years down the road-

Get too contentious- and you might have USAIR and lots of infighting in 5 years- or you can chill out and realize most of us will be a but pissed at the outcome- and move on to the growth and good things the future has for all of us

 

[Kharma Police]

It will happen. And it will STILL be a raise. FACT.

FACT The arbitrator will be merging seniority lists, not W2s.

 

[ivauir]

Fact:

An integration where only one side is happy is neither "fair" nor "equitable". It is going to work out just fine.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Those seniority lists come with a laundry list of items....not just a percentage number.

Relative has about the same chance as a staple!

 

[SWAdude]

Get too contentious- and you might have USAIR and lots of infighting in 5 years

No SWA pilot wants this.

FACT The arbitrator will be merging seniority lists, not W2s.

Yes they will. With a very long list of considerations including W2s.

After 20+ pages, none of the SWA pilots on this thread has really explained why they feel so put out by relative seniority.

Because it is not fair. We earned that seniority, AND our benefits and schedule flexibility. YOU have not. If we went by relative seniority your number 1 guy will have 19 years less longevity than our number 1 guy. How on earth do you not get that potential inequality? Our group, and many before us fought hard and sacrificed more than you can imagine to build the contract we have today. We, as a group, gave up much to give you what you will just walk into one day.

Please do not try and think this is not something that we have NOT given to you.

And yes. Welcome aboard! We have a great group of dedicated, loyal pilots that are looking forward to sharing the fruits of our efforts so we can both have long, stable careers in a really crappy industry littered with many not so fortunate.

 

[Kharma Police]

No SWA pilot wants this.



Yes they will. With a very long list of considerations including W2s.



Because it is not fair. We earned that seniority, AND our benefits and schedule flexibility. YOU have not. If we went by relative seniority your number 1 guy will have 19 years less longevity than our number 1 guy. How on earth do you not get that potential inequality? Our group, and many before us fought hard and sacrificed more than you can imagine to build the contract we have today. We, as a group, gave up much to give you what you will just walk into one day.

Please do not try and think this is not something that we have NOT given to you.

And yes. Welcome aboard! We have a great group of dedicated, loyal pilots that are looking forward to sharing the fruits of our efforts so we can both have long, stable careers in a really crappy industry littered with many not so fortunate.

Please don't lecture my group about fighting and sacrifice. You have had pillow fights in comparison to what we have been through. You are fortunate to work for an employer that recognizes and values your contributions. What have you sacrificed and fought for?, your ANR Headsets, 123 at the hotel, no hats? You have no idea what those words mean but if you are curious, ask the moderator, he can tell you all about it.