Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[doh]

This will not fall through. The guys with the money do not want it to fall through. You will negotiate a list or you will get an arbitrated list. Lots of you, from both sides, will not like the list.

 

[Lear70]

Here's some non-moderator input. We don't want you. Any questions?

Evidently Gary Kelly does, as does the Southwest BoD, not to mention the majority of your pilots I've run into on the jumpseats the last month don't seem to be quite as hostile about the acquisition as some on this board, so I'm guessing your view MIGHT be in the minority.

Just a thought... could be wrong, it's happened before. Just along for the ride, like most of the rest of us.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

This will not fall through. The guys with the money do not want it to fall through. You will negotiate a list or you will get an arbitrated list. Lots of you, from both sides, will not like the list.

Ohh now DOH. All the Airtran guys will luv the list. According to several of the Trannies on here they will get relative seniority or better. I think in the interest of unity they holding back on saying they expect that the arbitrator will award them at least the first 1700 spots.

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

Kharma, your Hitler reference borders WAY too close on personal attack, I'm going to ask you to take the hostility down a notch, please.

Moderator hat off:

Not to mention the Hitler reference does nothing to foster unity in working together in the future. Remember, some day we're going to fly alongside these guys and gals, try not to take the bait that some people are throwing out there. I know it's aggravating to be deliberately taunted, but sometimes the better part of valor is restraint.

Take a deep breath, go read the private board for a bit or just have a frosty adult beverage and think about your bet on the next Anchor Pool.

 

[hairball1173]

It will happen and one day Airtran will pass into history as many others have in the past. I hope the future holds what the past hasn't in so many ways. I hope the future holds a great and viable future in aviation. I hope that Southwest will continue on their path as many other have failed.

I just hope!!

 

[oriondriver]

just wondering if(hypothetically speaking of course) a few years after total integration WN makes a play for JB if Lear, TY, Kharma and the other ex-AAI bubbas will be pushing for relative seniority for the JB pilots because they say it is the right thing to do. of course by then the citrus green glasses they currently look through will be tinted canyon blue and the JB guys will have to be stapled or worst case DOH.

 

[vixin]

Gee I wonder what the answers will be.

 

[ASADFW7]

I do not think I am alone at SWA thinking this is just the first step in SWA acquisitions. GK stated 40% market share domestically, that would take some more deals.

 

[Kharma Police]

just wondering if(hypothetically speaking of course) a few years after total integration WN makes a play for JB if Lear, TY, Kharma and the other ex-AAI bubbas will be pushing for relative seniority for the JB pilots because they say it is the right thing to do. of course by then the citrus green glasses they currently look through will be tinted canyon blue and the JB guys will have to be stapled or worst case DOH.

Fair question. Since it wouldn't affect me in any way then merge Jetblue on the list just like DAL/NWA. I didn't have any problem with relative seniority when the Midwest Express deal was in the works either.

Since I gave a sincere honest answer, I have a sincere question for you "SWA bubbas". What will you lose with this deal? I know you guys don't think you will gain anything but what will the negative impact be for you and your career?

 

[Bwipilot]

What will you lose with this deal?

The AI pilots on this forum have been pushing relative seniority. It's gone over like a lead balloon since SWA pilots won't get the pay bump the AI pilots will get and will lose expected internal seniority improvements.

We've been waiting for a huge number of 60+ pilots to retire. 500 may not seem like a lot to some. However, that's 20-25% of the pilots on the seniority list above junior captains. It's enough to upgrade 20% of the SWA FOs.

Also, SWA pilots have been waiting expectantly for ramped up internal growth--which has always come with an improved economy. The internal growth, combined with retirements, would help out every SWA pilot. Alas, the aquisition of Airtran replaces that expected internal growth. There's too much for SWA to focus on and a huge amount of capital sunk into the purchase of AAI. Hence, it's another loss of upward growth for pilots even though it will be good for stockholders and the financial health of the company.

 

[funnyman12]

Gary kelly has stated that it would take SWA 10 years to internally grow Atl, the Lga and Dca slots, and the international ops without the AAI acquisition. Maybe a benefit for all at SWA would be a quicker opportunity for widebody flying in 10 years. Once domestic capacity is maxes out SWA will naturally look for bigger international flying. This could speed up that opportunity.

 

[Kharma Police]

The AI pilots on this forum have been pushing relative seniority. It's gone over like a lead balloon since SWA pilots won't get the pay bump the AI pilots will get and will lose expected internal seniority improvements.

We've been waiting for a huge number of 60+ pilots to retire. 500 may not seem like a lot to some. However, that's 20-25% of the pilots on the seniority list above junior captains. It's enough to upgrade 20% of the SWA FOs.

Also, SWA pilots have been waiting expectantly for ramped up internal growth--which has always come with an improved economy. The internal growth, combined with retirements, would help out every SWA pilot. Alas, the aquisition of Airtran replaces that expected internal growth. There's too much for SWA to focus on and a huge amount of capital sunk into the purchase of AAI. Hence, it's another loss of upward growth for pilots even though it will be good for stockholders and the financial health of the company.

Thank you for your response. I would ask that since you guys are now hiring quite a bit for 2011 would that not be indicative of growth and potential upgrades?

 

[PapaWoody]

Since I gave a sincere honest answer, I have a sincere question for you "SWA bubbas". What will you lose with this deal? I know you guys don't think you will gain anything but what will the negative impact be for you and your career?

In all sincerity, Kharma, I think the thing that most SWA guys have a problem with is the insistence by AAI guys that it would be "fair and equitable" to integrate you guys into our list in a way in which guys hired at AirTran later than guys hired at SWA had more seniority. Nothing could be more unfair or more non-equitable, imho. Couple the FACT that getting hired at AAI is easier than getting hired at SWA (objective statement-your min qualifications are lower) with the other issues like our better contract, schedule quality, QoL, benefits, work environment, etc., and hopefully you can see how we would arrive at that conclusion. I'm not suggesting any course of action with regards to the SLI, but if there is a negotiated/arbitrated decision that awards a single AAI guy better seniority than DoH, then imho fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

PS I know the stock rebuttal is relative was the course taken by the arbitrator in USA/AWA and DAL/NWA, so my stock answer to that is this is a "whole different animal", for a myriad of reasons. And for the record, I don't blame a single AAI guy for working to get relative seniority, you are just playing the hand you were dealt. Please don't take it personally that SWAPA pilots argue that it will never happen.

 

[ProFracPilot]

In all sincerity, Kharma, I think the thing that most SWA guys have a problem with is the insistence by AAI guys that it would be "fair and equitable" to integrate you guys into our list in a way in which guys hired at AirTran later than guys hired at SWA had more seniority. Nothing could be more unfair or more non-equitable, imho.

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight. But it seems that what you're addressing is the difference between seniority (for seat position) and longevity. I'd think that a JCBA would have to address this issue before a SLI could take place.

 

[redflyer65]

Well said Papa. You hit the nail on the head.

RF

 

[PapaWoody]

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight. But it seems that what you're addressing is the difference between seniority (for seat position) and longevity. I'd think that a JCBA would have to address this issue before a SLI could take place.

Well, since we all work in a longevity-based seniority system, the two issues are closely related, and will be considered as such by an arbitrator, imo.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Ty Webb]

if there is a negotiated/arbitrated decision that awards a single AAI guy better seniority than DoH, then imho fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall, taking away from one and giving it to another) then fairness and equality will not have been achieved.

I guess we have reached the point of diminishing returns in this thread. Time to let the SLI NC's do their work, and if they can't find a suitable solution (and judging from this board, that looks likely) let neutral arbitrators handle it. I'm willing to accept their decision . . . . are you?

Regds,
Ty

 

[vixin]

I am more then ready to accept their decision. You make it sound like we will get screwed by an arbitraitor. Why is that?

 

[Lowrider717]

...if they can't find a suitable solution (and judging from this board, that looks likely) let neutral arbitrators handle it.
Regds,
Ty

Judging by what gets posted on this board? That would be like going to a horse race and predicting the winner by using the MLB season stats.

 

[ivauir]

And in my opinion, if one AirTran CA were to lose his seat to a SWA FO (the textbook example of a windfall ...

Really?

I think a 50% pay raise and better work rules is a better "textbook" example of a windfall.