Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[FDJ2]

It seems the question here is more along the lines of, is this a merger or an aquisition? If it's an aquisition, what becomes of the Airtran pilot group?

Integrated into the SWA seniority list in a fair and equitable manner.

 

[dicko]

ivauir,
I do believe that our contract requires a re-opener for different aircraft types, which would cover having to negotiate terms for the 717 before they could come under our contract. I, however, don't believe that SWAPA would try to "punish" the AT guys by negotiating a low rate for 717 flying for two reasons. One, it would be construed by an arbitrator as being an extreme lack of good faith; and two, most importantly, it wouldn't be the right thing to do to our collective futures/culture. I would imagine that if GK wants us to fly the -800 for the same rates that we won't accept anything less for the 717's.

I would like to add that it is nice to see at least a small amount of reasonableness surfacing on this board. (If you squint, you can almost see it ) I'm not advocating any particular solution, but the initials DOH have been showing up a little more often, which maybe means that both sides aren't so entrenched in their positions that we won't be able to work something out between us. Nobody wins in arbitration, imo, and judging from looking at past decisions, the least reasonable group usually loses, again imo.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

Your Papas Woody,

Nice job on using paragraphs. I'm very proud. This proves that we can learn something from each other. It's heartening.

It also appears that you have attempted to educate yourself on the relevant law. Apparently you have actually picked up the phone and called your reps. Well done. Perhaps you'd like to review your previous posts and pass them on to your Merger Committee. They will thank you ...... Or not.

Keep up the good work.

 

[scoreboardII]

Contrite, condescending, and arrogant. Well done on the trifecta dicko!

 

[dicko]

Contrite, condescending, and arrogant. Well done on the trifecta dicko!

Please ..... I'm blushing. My peoples thank you. However, I don't think I was "contrite". That comes later.

He deserves the spanking. All of us have friends who work at SWA. They may be concerned. Some of them may even be pissed off that SWA didn't grow internally. That has nothing to do with AirTran pilots. None of them went "full retard" regarding the process that we are all going through.

No, I've never applied. Yes I'm qualified.

Cheers.

 

[PapaWoody]

Your Papas Woody,

Nice job on using paragraphs. I'm very proud. This proves that we can learn something from each other. It's heartening.

It also appears that you have attempted to educate yourself on the relevant law. Apparently you have actually picked up the phone and called your reps. Well done. Perhaps you'd like to review your previous posts and pass them on to your Merger Committee. They will thank you ...... Or not.

Keep up the good work.

Nope, I'll stand by everyone of my previous posts. If you want to re-read them, maybe this time you will notice that I never tried to even suggest what would happen with regards to the SLI. I did, however, point out some of the things that will probably considered as part of the totality of this individual situation. Maybe you don't agree, that's your right. But they were valid points, none the less.

Of course, I think it's funny that you never actually tried to rebut any of my arguments, you stooped to pointing out grammatical errors. Heaven forbid I would make such a heinous faux pas on FI. Again, the word for the day is relevancy, kiddos. It's in the dictionary somewhere between rehab and retard, in case you need a little help finding it, dicko. Which, judging from your previous posts, you do.

PW

 

[Lowrider717]

Doe FI have software that lets us edit out posting that includes dick measuring. That would bring this 30 pager down to about 5.

 

[TxPilot0878]

No Such Thing!

What about our route structure and our loyal customers? Did you also know when you become productive like us, our and your future airline ticket prices will drop 50% in ATL. This is all because of SWA. .

C'mon...no such thing as a loyal customer I don't care who you are. People and businesses are loyal only to the bottom dollar. Many of the people you think are loyal will be on other carriers tomorrow. No one likes getting screwed or paying more...the service provided at southwest is better but not justified just to fly the name. The reason people fly swa is for the low price!

Southwest has for a very long time pulled a huge market share and been HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL for it. But it has outgrown that "PURITY" or as you identify an ideal "LOYALTY" phase.

Southwest overcharges in many markets...I have taken Airtran, American, and others over Southwest because they were CHEAPER...and the baggage fees still wouldn't come close....no NO LOYALTY!

I have no dog in this fight...but hopefully the merger will expand the low cost structure and bring the new company a huge amount of growth and longevity, and low cost competition....not domination of the market and increase in prices due to LESS COMPETITION.

Regards,

Tex

 

[Lear70]

You have to admit, Tex, some of these fares are RIDICULOUSLY low...

In order for Commercial Aviation to survive, fares needed to come up, and they have, in dribs and drabs, $5 here, $10 there, Checked bag fee here, etc. They will CONTINUE to come up as long as people get on the planes. When the planes stop filling up, the fare will go back down. Not PERFECTLY elastic, but supply and demand works, but only insofar as a product isn't priced BELOW its cost to produce it just to stay in the market, thus making EVERYONE lose money.

Long story short,,, fares needed to come up, they have, and airlines are posting profits again. They need to come up a bit more and restore the pay and benefits we had pre-9/11. Not what travelers want to hear, but another $15-20 would go a LONG way towards doing that...

 

[GuppyWN]

Fares are up over 60% over last year.

Gup

 

[slaquer5]

You have to admit, Tex, some of these fares are RIDICULOUSLY low...



Long story short,,, fares needed to come up, they have, and airlines are posting profits again. They need to come up a bit more and restore the pay and benefits we had pre-9/11. Not what travelers want to hear, but another $15-20 would go a LONG way towards doing that...

Your Kidding I hope. Go look at what the legacy charge where there is no LCC competition. Also go do some research as to what they have charged in some cities before several up-starts. Then after they ran them out of business.

 

[Lear70]

Fares are up over 60% over last year.

Gup

Good. Seems the few full revenue tix from TN to MCO I bought last year averaged about $90 each way including the fees and taxes, so 60% is $54 additional each way. Doesn't sound all that unfair when you start talking real numbers.

Even that $300 coast-to-coast fare (round trip) would be up $90 each way. Not what the traveler wants to hear, but when it would cost you almost $1,000 to drive it and 3 days each direction, spending 6 hours each way on a plane for HALF that amount, saving 4 days of driving, sounds fair enough to me...

YMMV

 

[Richard Gozinya]

If they can't reach a deal, the MC alone has the authority to request Mediation, then, failing that, arbitration.

Lear, mediation WILL happen before arbitration.

 

[Lear70]

Your Kidding I hope. Go look at what the legacy charge where there is no LCC competition. Also go do some research as to what they have charged in some cities before several up-starts. Then after they ran them out of business.

Well, that's the real key, isn't it? "where there is no LCC competition".

Of COURSE they can have higher fares where there's no competition, but how many city pairings DOMESTICALLY can you say that about? A dozen? MAJOR cities? Maybe?

Almost every MAJOR city has LCC competition. Most fares (and I had to buy most of my tickets at full revenue the last 3 years and traveled almost every week) to most cities in the U.S. I had to travel were MUCH lower the last few years than they were just 9 or 10 years ago.

In the last 4 years, almost every major carrier has posted losses, even as recently as 2009 when the oil was BACK to normal, wages were low, planes were full, but carriers were STILL losing money. Flash forward one year, a few fare hikes, some increased baggage fees, and boom! Almost everyone is profitable again. Might be something to that whole "fares needed to come up" argument.

Then again, I could be wrong... it's happened before... I'm just a pilot armchair quarterbacking financial decisions from the cheap seats.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, mediation WILL happen before arbitration.

I thought that's what I said...??

Negotiation fails, Mediation requested.

Mediation fails, Arbitration requested. (that whole "failing that" part of my statement).

Must have been lost in translation or my crappy writing skills, pick one.

Either way, I trust our Merger Committee to find a good middle ground. None of them are jerks or hot heads, some of them are nerdier than others (our resident numbers cruncher who I used to fly with and is a good guy, but I know is reading these posts so I'm poking a little fun at him), some are "Good ole boys" from Dallas (who is likely also reading these posts but never posts himself), but all-in-all, they have the pulse of the pilot group, were line guys just like the rest of us until they were pulled from the line for the MC, and know that the VAST majority of us are looking forward to joining the SWA team and don't mind a little "give and take" as long as it's a fair shake in the end.

I also would bet money that SWAPA has put a good set of people together who are intelligent, reasonable, and will want something that keeps us pulling together after it's all said and done. Not everyone will be happy, but I hope most will believe that it was done fairly when the dust settles.

The beer offer still stands, btw. :beer:

 

[johnsonrod]

Lear, mediation WILL happen before arbitration.

Rich,

That may be the route, but Arbitration will be the end result. A neutral will decide your fate, which is the way it should be. Seniority is forever. Little deals between MEC members and Negotiating Teams should be avoided. Just go right to the arbitration, and have a good lawyer. No hard feeling, just business.