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Will SWA and AT truly merge?

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Ty Webb said:
After 20+ pages, none of the SWA pilots on this thread has really explained why they feel so put out by relative seniority.
Click to expand...

Ty,

Let's say, by the biggest imagination we can come up with, you get relative seniorty.

Say all of your "senior" dogs bid to our most junior base. You just TOOK seniority from guys that have been here 20 years longer than you.

That's a windfall.

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best vacation that I could have held last year.

That's a windfall.

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best lines that I could have held last year.

That's a windfall.

Training preferences.

Windfall.

Gup
 
Everyone needs to calm down. It will all be fine once the SWAPA pilots accept that the AAI pilots will be awarded at least the first 1700 spots on the new senioity list.



Gup don't fall for the bait. We will be lucky if we have jobs when this is all over. The arbitrator may in fact award them more than the top 1700 spots if we are not careful.
 
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What have you sacrificed and fought for?, your ANR Headsets, 123 at the hotel, no hats? You have no idea what those words mean
Click to expand...
If this is the attitude that represents the pilots of Airtran, this will be a US/AWA type of relationship.

You just unified 5700 SWA pilots. Lets see what this will get you.

I have changed my mind fro DOH to staple. They don't appreciate us anyways.
 
GuppyWN said:
Ty,

Let's say, by the biggest imagination we can come up with, you get relative seniorty.

Say all of your "senior" dogs bid to our most junior base. You just TOOK seniority from guys that have been here 20 years longer than you.

That's a windfall.

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best vacation that I could have held last year.

That's a windfall.

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best lines that I could have held last year.

That's a windfall.

Training preferences.

Windfall.

Gup
Click to expand...


Have you guys run the numbers with the seniority lists, "IF" they were merged as you say? 1700 folded into 5800 with the majority probably staying in ATL, just curious how it would look? Your senior guys would probably still get Kwanzaa off.
 
Serious question how many Capt and F/Os are there in each of the AAI bases?
 
SWAdude said:
If this is the attitude that represents the pilots of Airtran, this will be a US/AWA type of relationship.

You just unified 5700 SWA pilots. Lets see what this will get you.

I have changed my mind fro DOH to staple. They don't appreciate us anyways.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to allow your patronizing and condescending attitude to go unchecked; and I'm not going to be lectured by you about fighting and sacrifice and how we should be kissing your tush. I prefer to work with you for a fair solution to both sides but if you continue with your arrogant attitude towards us don't be surprised when you get some resistance.

p.s. you should calm down when you type, less typos
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to allow your patronizing and condescending attitude to go unchecked; and I'm not going to be lectured by you about fighting and sacrifice and how we should be kissing your tush. I prefer to work with you for a fair solution to both sides but if you continue with your arrogant attitude towards us don't be surprised when you get some resistance.
Click to expand...

Patronizing and condescending........unbelievable. What do you call all we have fought for and earned was 1-2-3 and noise canceling headsets?

p.s. you should calm down when you type, less typos
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for you, typos will be your best argument. You have nothing else.

STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE. You deserve nothing more.
 
Kharma Police said:
I respect and thank you for showing your true colors and for giving an honest answer.
Click to expand...

You will be doing your fellow pilots a service by being quiet.

And I really don't feel all your pilots should be stapled. Just you.

I know thats not possible but you will find yourself being an island in this work group. Have fun.
 
Ty Webb said:
After 20+ pages, none of the SWA pilots on this thread has really explained why they feel so put out by relative seniority.
Click to expand...

What Ty really meant to say was that after 20+ pages of being told why SWA pilots are put out by the though of relative seniority, he still refuses to believe that SWA pilots will be put out by relative seniority.

Of course, the same could be said for SWAdude and staple, staple, staple. But that seems to be the joy of forums--the humor of the most vocal opinions.
 
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I hope everybody feels better now that you got all the insults off your chests. I would love to know what you guys hope to accomplish by this useless exchange of personal opinions. I have mentioned this before, but why not let your merger committee know how you feel and they may actually put your ideas to good use, instead of insulting the people you will have to work with and hopefully (still be able to) have a beer with.

Everybody has different expectations, all dependent on seniority and seat position. You will never convince another guy in your own airline that your way is better than his, so why even try with the other airline.
Let the negotiators do their job and whatever they don't get done, an arbitrator will finish. There is no reason to waste your time here with insults... .
I am still offering to buy the first beer, no matter where I end up.
 
SWAdude said:
You will be doing your fellow pilots a service by being quiet.

And I really don't feel all your pilots should be stapled. Just you.

I know thats not possible but you will find yourself being an island in this work group. Have fun.
Click to expand...

I don't back down from a bullies and neither do my coworkers. You can try and play nice and laugh every once in awhile and continue with a constructive debate on this issue or you can continue with your arrogant attitude and reap what you sow. All I know is that my blood pressure is normal and I'm guessing your AME would tell you to come back next week when you calm down.
 
Like I said, their wish list just keeps growing and growing.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH relitive seniority BLAH BLAH I see no windfall here BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH we have 500 million in the bank BLAH BLAH BLAH I know I'm getting a raise but I want to stay in my seat BLAH BLAH BLAH I want to stay in my base BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH if a 10 year SWA FO is put ahead of our 4 year Captains, thats not fair BLAH BLAH BLAH.....BAWL BAWL BAWL.
 
I don't back down from a bullies and neither do my coworkers. You can try and play nice and laugh every once in awhile and continue with a constructive debate on this issue or you can continue with your arrogant attitude and reap what you sow. All I know is that my blood pressure is normal and I'm guessing your AME would tell you to come back next week when you calm down.
Click to expand...

You really are a clueless little man.

Good luck.
 
You guys on both sides should be ashamed. You are both acting like spoiled children. This is no way to behave or to work through these issues. You are so busy throwing stones that you have forgotten how to treat each other. Lets start this over with a bit of basic respect. If we both try to treat others better than perhaps some constructive conversation can take place. Treat others better than yourself. That being said I will start this discussion. I believe that ant pilot at SWA with a seniority date prior to the beginning of AirTran should be untouched at the top of the list. I believe this is 848 pilots?
 
SWA/FO said:
Like I said, their wish list just keeps growing and growing.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH relitive seniority BLAH BLAH I see no windfall here BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH we have 500 million in the bank BLAH BLAH BLAH I know I'm getting a raise but I want to stay in my seat BLAH BLAH BLAH I want to stay in my base BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH if a 10 year SWA FO is put ahead of our 4 year Captains, thats not fair BLAH BLAH BLAH.....BAWL BAWL BAWL.
Click to expand...

I think our wish list has pretty much stayed the same. It appears that you guys have a hard time just saying you want to staple us. Again, it's cool, not saying I would agree but I would respect your honesty and your point of view,
 
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Bwipilot said:
No one is too worried about the most senior SWA guys--no matter what they will be well off. It's the next 90% who are very concerned with what happens with the SLI.
Click to expand...

So, are you saying that Kwanzaa goes junior or senior? Because, it's kind of a big thing down here in Atlanta. Hopefully, Southwest will continue our sponsorship of, "The Feast of the Harvest Day Parade" down Peachtree Street.
 
Timeout:


Lots of people here that are taking themselves far too seriously. All that had been established here over and over again is that:


1. The Airtran guys feel like relative seniority is the only fair and equitable solution. They are sure that is what they will be awarded in arbitration.

2. The SWA guys feel that relative seniority would be a windfall for the Airtran guys given the age and contractual differances between the companys.

3. The Airtran guys don't feel that the contractual gains will be a factor in the arbitration and the SWA guys disagree.

Reality check:

Nothing is going to be solved on this forum. No one is going to change anyones mind.

This thing will get resolved and there is a good chance it will be in arbitration. There are 100s of ways that an arbitrator could look at this and for anyone who is not an attorney that specializes in airline RLA airline seniority list mergers in a post Bond McCaskill environment to predict an outcome is just silly.

That being said whatever the outcome of the SLI is the worst thing we can do long term for our collective carriers is to have this thing turn out like USAir/AWA. Soon we will all have to live in the same house and it will be far better if we choose to get along.

Ghetto
 
If I were SWA I would not worry too much.... If our TA is any bench mark of coming attractions we will be cleaning the lavs at SWA and paying to get trained.........
 
I believe this will be worked out without an arbitrator. We both have intelligent and level-headed people working on this. I think they will work it out.
 
You guys are right, I don't want to belong to any pilot group that would have me on the seniority list! You guys enjoy SWA.

AMF
 
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Yeah, Karma Police got the best of me. Sorry guys. I bit off on the trolls bait. I started this with some realities about our pilot group that seemed to be missing from this thread.

A full staple in reality would be worse than us having to live with relative seniority.

On the true discussion front, why is it fair to give the 93 hires and senior their seniority but DOH is not good enough for the rest of the SWA group?

How about DOH with some seat protection language?
 
GuppyWN said:
Ty,

Let's say, by the biggest imagination we can come up with, you get relative seniorty.

Say all of your "senior" dogs bid to our most junior base. You just TOOK seniority from guys that have been here 20 years longer than you.
Not if an equal number of lines were added
 That's a windfall.

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best vacation that I could have held last year.

That's a windfall.Not if an equal number of vacation days are added

All your "new" senior dogs bid the best lines that I could have held last year.
Not if an equal number of lines were added
That's a windfall.

Training preferences.
Not if an equal number of slots were added
Windfall.

Gup
Click to expand...

That's what I mean, Gup. If you add 138 airplanes and our understaffed pilot group to the mix, there will be an equal amount added to everything (or what is negotiated in the TA and JCBA plus newhires, so what are you losing?
 
SWAdude said:
How about DOH with some seat protection language?
Click to expand...

I think that sounds fair and reasonable. You guys have a 2 year fence restriction in your contract, correct? Can a senior pilot displace a junior pilot out of his domicile?
 
Ohhhh how nice! Kharma and SWAdude have just finished the SLI.

Reality check.......None of us knows how this will go down. Both NC's are going to spend the next 6 months to 2 years hammering out positions and running numbers. They are going to consult with the brightest (most expensive) attorneys and bankers around the country to build cases for their respective list. Eventually they will come to an agreement or an impasse. What ever the case....none of us knows how this will go down!!!

So with that everyone needs to chill and keep the blood pressure under control because this is the only sure shot.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhqyZeUlE8U
 

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