Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[texman]

LISTEN AFTER A COUPLE OF BEERS. IT WILL HELP THIS THREAD. CHILLLLLLLLLL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SCGbbw1Zro

 

[Dude]

To the person making personal attacks on a pilot who is allegedly part of the SWAPA MC, knock it off. I thought I had made it PERFECTLY clear that there would be no more of the personal attacks.

Lear,

Who are you talking about?

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

Who are you talking about?

OurMoney1

Posts #228 and #234 in this thread where he or she is trashing a member of the SWAPA MC. Not going to start down this road, leaving the posts up so people can see what I'm talking about, but further trashing of people like this will result in a 30 day suspension and deletion of the offending comments.

/mod

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

While FDJ and I were once on opposite sides of the table, everything that he has said in the past has proven to be accurate.

Separate ops is fine, but understand what AT brings to the table that SWA wants. They want ATL (gate leases belong to AT), slots in LGA and DCA (again in AT's name), and most importantly, the ETOPS and international ops, which belong to the AT operating certificate, and cannot be easily transferred. Slot and foreign authority transfer hearings take time, and you just don't swap ops spec authority from one certificate to another willy nilly.

SWA wants AT because they are out of easy growth opportunities...there is no where for them TO grow without them, and to think they'd run separate ops just to work around a culture may be naive, counter to what's been in the press and SEC disclosure, and operationally expensive (two sets of management, two operating certificates, two of everything).

Nu

 

[ATLplt]

Nu, please do not try to bring logic and reason to this board. You're gonna ruin all the grenade lobbing and luv.

 

[Sy-bill]

Heyas,
and to think they'd run separate ops just to work around a culture may be naive
Nu

You grossly under estimate the value SWA puts on its culture. It is worth far more than 300mil to them. They have mentioned more than several times in press releases how important the culture will be with this transaction.

Separate ops does not mean separate brand. USairways east and west have proven the possibility of two contracts. Not what I would want but the pilots seem to be satisfied with the arrangement.

Most (if not most all) the first Officers at SWA want a relative seniority gain with this acquisition. The junior Captains also I am certain. This they find fair with the tremendous salary, benefits and othe QOL gains the AT pilots will automatically receive.

Integration is a broad word with many different possibilities. SWA will choose what is best for the company.

 

[Ty Webb]

Most (if not most all) the first Officers at SWA want a relative seniority gain with this acquisition.

Pretty strong stuff coming from a guy who says he doesn't work there.

Which one is it? I have little tolerance for people that post ad nauseum about an airline but don't have the cojones to say where they work.


.

 

[Sy-bill]

Pretty strong stuff coming from a guy who says he doesn't work there.

Which one is it? I have little tolerance for people that post ad nauseum about an airline but don't have the cojones to say where they work.


.

One does not need to go far to get the pulse of that work group. Just as I bet your group wants relative seniority. These really are not difficult assumptions to make anyways.

No one has asked you to tolerate anything. Who says I work for an airline?

You can ignore me. And based on your frustration over irrelevant issues with me, I recommend you do.

 

[Kharma Police]

Pretty strong stuff coming from a guy who says he doesn't work there.

Which one is it? I have little tolerance for people that post ad nauseum about an airline but don't have the cojones to say where they work.


.

Yes, I too find it odd that a guy that claims he has no vested interest has such a deep knowledge of Southwest's culture and history and such a partisan view point. I think he read a post of mine that stated that every airline in the industry seems to agree that the SLI should go to arbitration. He is pretending to be an outside observer unselfishly trying to make us Trannys see the light with his point of view but his post's make it quite obvious who he really works for.

 

[NuGuy]

You grossly under estimate the value SWA puts on its culture. It is worth far more than 300mil to them. They have mentioned more than several times in press releases how important the culture will be with this transaction.

Separate ops does not mean separate brand. USairways east and west have proven the possibility of two contracts. Not what I would want but the pilots seem to be satisfied with the arrangement.

Most (if not most all) the first Officers at SWA want a relative seniority gain with this acquisition. The junior Captains also I am certain. This they find fair with the tremendous salary, benefits and othe QOL gains the AT pilots will automatically receive.

Integration is a broad word with many different possibilities. SWA will choose what is best for the company.

Heyas,

Just so we're clear:

1) The NMB LOVES precedent. They love it because it doesn't make it look like they're inventing anything. This goes double (or triple) if it was recent.

2) The last few pilot arbitrations has gone straight relative seniority. Strip the handwaving/justification away from the recent DAL/NWA merger, and that's what you got, down to a decimal point. Pay didn't matter, contracts didn't matter, merger or acquisition didn't matter, relative size didn't matter. AAA/AWA was essentially the same, with the exception of a cutout for the larger 330 aircraft. AAI/SWA has no such differential.

3) Alot of effort has been used to move away the DOH method of integration. It will be VERY difficult to re-introduce it at this point and be able to point to recent precendence.

4) Pay/contracts do not figure into the equation. The career expectaions that the NMB will see is this: SWA pilot at the end of 20 years: 737 captain. AAI pilot at the end of 20 years: 737 captain.

5) Holding companies prior to SOC are extremely common, and nothing should be read into it. The companies cannot fully merge until they have achived a single operating certificate, which is not done overnight. NWA was placed into their own holding company, operated as a subsidiary to DAL until that date. Even though they carried DAL paint, NWA birds read "Operated by Northwest Airlines" , and used the NWA callsign until SOC, which was a year after the corporate closing.

6) The SWA pilots and the AAI pilots can decide in their own mind whatever is fair, but what they think doesn't matter. In the end, both sides agree, or someone else gets to decide what is fair for them.

7) While it is true that SWA management MAY decide to run a legal gauntlet to set up separate ops, it would be a risk to do so. Relying upon what SWA management has considered important in the past, such as corprate culture, is also suspect, because so may of the other things that were important to them in the past have been jettisoned already, including mergers, hub operations, congested airports, code sharing and bigger/different aircraft.

8) Depending on some sleigh of hand corporate handwaving on SWAs part to avoid combining the pilot groups may help you sleep at night, but I would place odds against it. What you see in the SEC filings happening is a safe bet.

Nu