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Why Was Comair Not Sold?

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JECKEL

JECKEL

God's Own Drunk
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
402
Why was Comair not sold?

This may be a bad sign for the pilots at Comair. Compass and Mesaba are sold off and Comair is left "in the bag".

Comair may not be a sellable Delta asset and because of this the writing may be one the wall ... a closing of the doors.

The Comair president did not present any comforting or assuring words for Comair pilots today when all he had to say is that Comair must remain focused on the short term and that the planned move to DTW is still going forward.

Work real hard right up to the very end!
 
JECKEL said:
Why was Comair not sold?

This may be a bad sign for the pilots at Comair. Compass and Mesaba are sold off and Comair is left "in the bag".

Comair may not be a sellable Delta asset and because of this the writing may be one the wall ... a closing of the doors.

The Comair president did not present any comforting or assuring words for Comair pilots today when all he had to say is that Comair must remain focused on the short term and that the planned move to DTW is still going forward.

Work real hard right up to the very end!
Click to expand...

One of the Q & A this morning stated that DAL attempted to market Comair and the cost structure was simply too high.. nobody wanted it.

As somebody that was there through the 2001 work action, I can't help but think of the fact that the company went from being the most profitable regional of all time with an employee base that was making money hand over fist through their 401K plans and being sold to DAL in '98 for over 2 Billion (yes, with a "B") to a carrier that today practically can't be given away and nobody wants any part of.

Yep, JC.. the strike was worth it..
 
It looks as if Comair may well be destined to be slowly parted out and fade into history...
 
Bugsmasher Plus said:
One of the Q & A this morning stated that DAL attempted to market Comair and the cost structure was simply too high.. nobody wanted it.

As somebody that was there through the 2001 work action, I can't help but think of the fact that the company went from being the most profitable regional of all time with an employee base that was making money hand over fist through their 401K plans and being sold to DAL in '98 for over 2 Billion (yes, with a "B") to a carrier that today practically can't be given away and nobody wants any part of.

Yep, JC.. the strike was worth it..
Click to expand...

Comair has always been first.....
First to fly all jets...
First to demand livable regional wages.....
First to be too costly compared to cheaper upstarts.....

The main issue is their is no barrier to new entrants in the regional market. You obtain some jets or borrow them from a mainline carrier, hire some cheap pilots (the cheaper the better so if you can offer flow through or free hotel makes compensation lower) and compete against established carriers.
I suppose the same happens at mainline but the timeline is much more drawn out.
Best of luck Comair,
Luv
 
Full of LUV said:
Comair has always been first.....
First to fly all jets...
First to demand livable regional wages.....
First to be too costly compared to cheaper upstarts.....

The main issue is their is no barrier to new entrants in the regional market. You obtain some jets or borrow them from a mainline carrier, hire some cheap pilots (the cheaper the better so if you can offer flow through or free hotel makes compensation lower) and compete against established carriers.
I suppose the same happens at mainline but the timeline is much more drawn out.
Best of luck Comair,
Luv
Click to expand...

I don't understand. So what you're saying is thank ALPA for trying to get you a better wage even though that same ALPA represented another pilot group to step in to take over you? Either you are not making sense or you just described the regional industry perfectly.
 
Full of LUV said:
Comair has always been first.....
First to fly all jets...
First to demand livable regional wages.....
First to be too costly compared to cheaper upstarts.....

The main issue is their is no barrier to new entrants in the regional market. You obtain some jets or borrow them from a mainline carrier, hire some cheap pilots (the cheaper the better so if you can offer flow through or free hotel makes compensation lower) and compete against established carriers.
I suppose the same happens at mainline but the timeline is much more drawn out.
Best of luck Comair,
Luv
Click to expand...


First to initiate PFT as well
 
How long until we admit that the Comair pilots lost the strike. When they shut down? In fairness, it's not the Comair pilots who lost, it's every other pilot group out there who supported the CMR pilots sacrifice, then turned around and signed vastly inferior contracts. ALPA lost.

The day Comair shuts down should be a day of shame for every ALPA pilot.
 
CX880 said:
I don't understand. So what you're saying is thank ALPA for trying to get you a better wage even though that same ALPA represented another pilot group to step in to take over you? Either you are not making sense or you just described the regional industry perfectly.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't blame ALPA for anything, because all they do in reality is facilitate an individual pilot group into negotiating whatever they deem as fair. The problem with the regionals, is they can easily be whipsawed against eachother to the point where they have to be CHEAPER than the next group or they lose their contracts. Since mainline dictates the schedule and pays the fuel, and sometimes aircraft leases, the only competitive advantage one company can produce over another is LABOR.

My only solution to this was that ALPA should have published a minimum standard by which contracts would be judged. Those below this standard would not be allowed ALPA benefits, which I would have included the jumpseat.
The jumpseat has allowed companies to startup at far below actual livable wage costs because aircrew just "jumps" to work and back and accepts constant base changes. If the minimum contract per ALPA was required to provide access to the jumpseat, then companies would pay what is required to meet that minimum, otherwise you would never find labor for VA, Jetblue, etc, let alone most of the regionals who base out of NYC, LA etc.
ALPA should define the "profession" and then hold professionals accountable for their wages.
Do you think a plumber in NYC working for a company that pays $5 per hour would be let into the union? Nope, and that company would have some big barriers to work around finding plumbers.
Just saying..... everyone wants to accept commuting across the country for subpar wages but then wonders why they continually get beat over the head for the last $.
If the regionals hate ALPA so much, they should form a regional union, fine. But their flying is always tied to what mainline is willing to give away, unless they start to actually market thier own product.
Luv
 
Full of LUV said:
First to demand livable regional wages.....
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the first to "demand" livable regional wages. AWAC and ACA got them though normal CBA negotiations/demand before COMAIR's strike.

COMAIR just had to resort to different means to attain it.

Bear in mind, "livable regional wages" is a bit of an oxymoron. For a CA, not so much. But even the best pre 9/11 FO rates were a tad crappy overall.
 
Real nice, dancing on undug graves.

Their strike did change the industry mostly for the better. It was a bar raiser. The positive effects would've manifested themselves much better if it weren't for the post 911 industry downturn.

Many of the things the Comair pilots did post strike is what earned them the wrath of just about everyone who is now grave dancing, but I believe they have been rogered quite enough.
 
Full of LUV said:
have published a minimum standard by which contracts would be judged. Those below this standard would not be allowed ALPA benefits, which I would have included the jumpseat.
Click to expand...

I think you may be on to something here. By no means do I think a jumpseat "war" should be initiated, but if this rule was ALPA policy I think the industry might be a little different. Although, a flaw in this theory is who actually owns the jumpseat. The company paid for the jumpseat but the captain does have final discretion. Interesting idea.

-CF
 
The only way to get past this is a national union. Alpa is is obsolete, I don't think it was ever relavent
 
Talked to compass and Mesaba pilots today and their flow through are gone in 60 days so flow through had nothing to do with it... Just like Midatlantic with USairways.
 
N813CA said:
Talked to compass and Mesaba pilots today and their flow through are gone in 60 days so flow through had nothing to do with it... Just like Midatlantic with USairways.
Click to expand...

Not true... the agreement is to hash out something over the next 60. The flow through is not settled yet.
 
cmrflyer said:
Do tell, what was that?
Click to expand...


Well, let's see...

RJDC.

Way too much non-staple mainline merger talk.

Refusing to hire mainline furloughs.

First in DCI to take concessions for planes.

I didn't say I was peeved at them, but others still are.
 
Bugsmasher- that is the COOLEST avatar. Long live the Saab!

The bottom line is that the mainline carriers want LOW COSTS, even if that means someday possibly dumping a known quantity such as Comair who, incidentally, has set numerous high standards in the regional industry (I completely applaud them for that). But, there is no sentiment in business. If airline XYZ can fly CRJ-200s, -700s, and -900s for less than the next guy, they're positioned to gain more flying. It's that simple. Mainline doesn't give a jee whiz about what they're wages are, about how high turnover is, etc. Fly bigger and bigger planes with our paint and logo on it, do it forever more cheaply, and don't screw up. Nevermind that we'll never REALLY have a vested interest in you or your people. Good luck and good day. Did we mention that we can find someone else who'll do it for less in five seconds?

That's how upside down this is right now. I wish there was a simple fix to 'righting' this problem. Sucks Comair is in the position they're in after striking for so much good years ago.

Good luck to everyone!


-Snaab
 
CX880 said:
. . . Either you are not making sense or you just described the regional industry perfectly.
Click to expand...

Taaaa Daaaaa!!

. . . . . . . . .. . .

There is an upheaval on the way, and EVERYONE is vulnerable. So dance if you will, but remember that the grave on which you currently dance may soon be your own.
 
So you think the % of the profit that Delta gets from the contract carriers. What is it like %20 is more than what the wholly owned is making?
 
Comair was not sold because Delta is going to release an announcement about merging Comair with mainline.
 

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