Why United Airlines will fail again

[G4G5]

Holy COW!

Are you hiring?

AA

No, I am not kidding..

About $150k for a G5 or Global express is average. The range in the Northeast or out in Calif would be in the $135-165 range. The pay is less in the central states with the lower cost of living. The next tier of G4/Challenger 604 or Falcon 900 drivers get a little less. The nice thing is most jobs do come with most of the perks I mentioned.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I don't think UAL will have any problems with the projected $50 a barrel oil prices they plan on for the next five years.

Look at this past week, when oil dropped down into the high 50s, and it looks like it'll keep dropping for the next several decades.

Wait a second, maybe oil went up into the high 60s in this past week, and it looks like it'll keep going up for the next several decades?

I can't remember which is correct.

I guess the UAL mgmt doesn't really give a crap about their airline and their employees, they just made plans to get great golden parachutes to jump out of the plane at FL 350 and watch it plummet into a smoking hole while they drink pina coladas on some beach island with their early retirement money!

Cliff
PSM

 

[TXDA2000]

I usually stay out of the airline cat fights, but I can personally pick about 20 "friends" at United who swayed my opinion about their airline.

You guys (not all of you of course, hate to generalize and lump) need to look at some video portraying your attitude towards other aviators in the nineties, be it fellow airline types, rj, or corporate.

Let's just say I still have the bad taste in my mouth.

Payback is when a college friend who is a widebody FO calls me up for a job, just a few years after he told me my career choice (corporate) was sub-standard and meaningless.

I guess I'm gonna have to buy an airline type uniform and hat, get some glamour shots at the mall, and set up a shrine by the front door to show everyone who enters my house that I'm a god. Is there "shrine arrangement" training included in upgrade class, because they all seem to be arranged in the same manner? Just curious!

Lighten up guys, we are all in the same boat! Some are just bigger than others, not necessarily better.

 

[Andy]

The "just go out of business" attitude and type of statements were not just from UAL pilots, but from individual pilots from the rest of the "legacy" carriers also. It got old after a while, and we didn't spend 3+ years in Ch. 11.

That attitude is not confined to legacy pilots, nor is/was it solely aimed at TWA. I wouldn't even say that it's confined to the airline industry; I think that it's human nature.

I'm rather surprised that someone in Guard/Reserve unit would make that kind of comment to another member of the unit. I flew with a lot of TWA guys at my Guard unit, and there was no bad blood until after the AA/TWA merge. I did get to witness friendships ended due to the merge. The AA and TWA guys were like oil and water after the merge.

I used to jumpseat on TWA a lot; a class act. The FAs were usually 'cat ranchers,' but they were almost always very nice (just kinda strange). I spent a lot of time in Lambert and got to see TWA's operation, with the monochrome monitors, burroughs computer system, etc. The operation was being held together by bubblegum, bailing wire, and very dedicated employees.

 

[Andy]

I usually stay out of the airline cat fights, but I can personally pick about 20 "friends" at United who swayed my opinion about their airline.

Nothing personal, but they must not have been very good friends if they didn't get you letters of rec and an interview. ... on second thought, maybe they were really good friends by not having you work at UAL. :^)

 

[WhiteCloud]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

UAL has to live with the consequences of going bankrupt,and not paying their bills. Try doing it sometime and then see how many friends you have left among your former business partners. The way they deal with their employees, contractors and customers will have a huge impact on their survival. While were doing psycobabble here your post indicates a typical abusive personality......you have this need for acceptance and then blame and accuse those who don't accept you as the ones with a problem. Try behaving better and you'll have more friends.

 

[AA717driver]

I'm rather surprised that someone in Guard/Reserve unit would make that kind of comment to another member of the unit. I flew with a lot of TWA guys at my Guard unit, and there was no bad blood until after the AA/TWA merge. I did get to witness friendships ended due to the merge. The AA and TWA guys were like oil and water after the merge.

Andy--That's why I can't get past this. Even though it didn't happen to me (the Guard thing, but I got plenty of snide comments on my commute on USAir over the years...) I am good friends with the guy it did happen to. He's a great guy and I just couldn't believe it.

To me, that epitomized the attitude that brought us to where we are today. Whether the comments by the UAL guys or by the AA people about the supposed inferiority of the TWA pilots, arrogance and parochialism has divided us and allowed management/big money to break us down.

I've got a friend at UAL who is 57. No retirement. No chance to recover. It kills me to talk to him because he is just screwed.

I think everyone is misunderstanding what G4G5 is telling you. Just because you got your pay slashed and benefits cut, doesn't guarantee success. You guys are going to have to watch management like a hawk. They got their money and if they start taking it out, watch out! Learn from those who have been through this before--you can bet management is!

Good luck.TC

 

[Andy]

I think everyone is misunderstanding what G4G5 is telling you. Just because you got your pay slashed and benefits cut, doesn't guarantee success. You guys are going to have to watch management like a hawk. They got their money and if they start taking it out, watch out! Learn from those who have been through this before--you can bet management is!

Good luck.TC

Dude, no one needs to tell us that stuff. We're well aware of it. When you're looking over the edge of the chap 7 cliff, it's a sobering experience. I'm sure that you had more than a couple of days where you were concerned that you'd read in the morning paper that your airline was being liquidated.

The current management is no nicer to the employees than the management that got us into chap 11. But make no mistake, this is a different management. More than half of the senior company officials have been changed since Tilton. 22 out of 37 VPs are no longer VPs at United. I think that they're more competent than the previous management. Just as evil as previous management, but more competent.

I have a great deal of confidence in our current MEC; they are much more concerned about the entire membership than working on self-serving agendas.

Again, I don't think that any pilot at United needs to be reminded of this. We live it (even I as a furloughee keep very up to date) every day. The constant use of 2 by 4s over our cranium cases over these issues is only going to make us resistant to the message - one that we've already received and fully comprehend.

 

[32LT10]

UAL was NORDO today, death to all who work there!

So was JBLU 500. Perhaps he was reading the losses for JBLU. How can a company stay in business losing that much money. The goverment should just shut them down. They don't have a defined retirement plan and thus must be a burden to society. It must be stopped :smash:

 

[Sonny Crockett]

So was JBLU 500. Perhaps he was reading the losses for JBLU. How can a company stay in business losing that much money. The goverment should just shut them down. They don't have a defined retirement plan and thus must be a burden to society. It must be stopped :smash:

I agree!

Shut er' down so the airlines "that pay bills" can grow and prosper! Must be jETBLUE's business model is all wrong! THEY HAVE TO GET COSTS DOWN! What are they thinking? Must be the GREEDY pilots at jETBLUE can't they see that they should give up some $$$ to SAVE the company!

(T.I.C.)