Why United Airlines will fail again

[32LT10]

AA--Actually, in the late '90's a couple of UAL pilots in the COS C-130 AFRES squadron cornered one of their squadronmates and said: "Why don't you guys (TWA) just do the right thing and go out of business?"

That's who I want flying with me in combat...

Sorry, AA, but there's plenty of that sentiment out there. The UAL people are getting a very small taste. You just haven't been in a position to experience it--I hope you never will.



Also, I forgot who called G4G5 a RJ pilot. He's not. He's a GV captain. Besides, RJ pilots work harder than any Legacy pilot ever thought of working.TC

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ? 5'? Glad to hear RJ pilots work harder. How about the float plane pilots in AK? Bet there workload is higher than any PFT RJ newbie.

You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. Did the UAL pilots stick you at the bottom of the AA list?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

32LT10,
I, personally, didn't have anything against anyone at UAL......until today. I heard on the radio a UAL guy mess up his call sign. To me, that is the biggest sin in aviation. Now I wish nothing but the worst for every single one of the UAL pilots.

 

[XTW]

.
You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. quote]


32LT10,

I don't see anything in AA717's post that states that anything was said to him personally. This shows how good your reading comprehension really is.

The "just go out of business" attitude and type of statements were not just from UAL pilots, but from individual pilots from the rest of the "legacy" carriers also. It got old after a while, and we didn't spend 3+ years in Ch. 11.

I hope the best for you guys. I hate to see anyone get tossed to the street any time, not just today's environment.

X

 

[AA717driver]

32LT--What's the difference between a G4 and a RJ? If you have to ask, you can't understand...

I don't have anything against UAL pilots. I have something against people making personal attacks against someone just because they are pointing out certain aspects of a company's business picture.

He's doing you a favor, actually. Maybe if we hadn't blown sunshine up our own skirts at TWA in the early 90's when we first came out of Ch.11 we'd have left for FEX or SWA.

All three of us (G4G5, XTW and I) are planning on passing up recall at AA. Why? Because we've seen what having double-digit billions in debt can do to the long-term prospects of a company that has mortgaged every asset it has to the hilt.

When you get the unvarnished truth, you're gonna get some splinters.

XTW--Did you already walk across the parking lot to the 7-11 and get your six pack and Slim Jim? TC

 

[G4G5]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ?

About $150,000 a year, plus stock options, profit sharing, pension, 401k match and a bonus.

Nights in real, quality hotels with all expenses paid for don't hurt either. (CEO's tend to go to nice places)

Woops, I almost forgot the free laptop

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I like UAL and was treat nice for 2 years out of DEN

Must really suck for you in your little RJ life G4. I can't believe your obsession with all things United related. Have any of you flown on United recently? We always take care of the other airlines, we always put you in first when available (something MOST of you don't do), our service has been receiving award winning responses, our p.s. service is second to none, we still board pillows and blankets (even on Ted), we still offer economy plus seating instead of cramming you into the can like most others have gone, and we still have the incredible route structure which you all guaranteed us we would sell before emerging. So please, tell me what we're doing wrong. How I seen it, United is defining itself as the ONLY airlines that still offers amenities among the legacies.

As for $50 bbl, that's over the long term of 10 years. Right now we need $67 to break even.


Good job United. Glad to see you made it.

I commuted for two years on UAL during the bancrupcy and was always treated very well by the crews. It had a feel like TWA as far as taking care of each other. All this airline bashing is a waste of energy. There are a lot of great people at airlines that are struggling. I wish the fine folks at United all the best and will be glad to see many return to the work force.

Jeff

 

[AAflyer]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ?

About $150,000 a year, plus stock options, profit sharing, pension, 401k match and a bonus.

Nights in real, quality hotels with all expenses paid for don't hurt either. (CEO's tend to go to nice places)

Woops, I almost forgot the free laptop

Holy COW!

Are you hiring?

AA

No, I am not kidding..

 

[IB6 UB9]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ? 5'? Glad to hear RJ pilots work harder. How about the float plane pilots in AK? Bet there workload is higher than any PFT RJ newbie.

You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. Did the UAL pilots stick you at the bottom of the AA list?

UAL was NORDO today, death to all who work there!

 

[G4G5]

WOW! That's the first time that I've heard someone say that United is coming out of Ch11 too early.
It's been somewhere around 37 months, what's the rush? You want to get it right because unlike when CAL and TWA did it, you can't go back (at least not to the same cushion you have now). The laws changed on 10/17/05, the new laws will not be as favorable (24 months max in CH11, then ch7). People seem to forget this, where was UAL over a year ago? Not ready to exit ch11.
Who is the one telling UAL has gotten all that it could get out of the ch11 process. Tilton? One of the consultants or lawyers, who have made millions off of UAL? I haven't seen it written anywhere credible. On the contrary all I see is articles saying enough has not been done.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

UAL's mgt stinks. How is it UAL goes through an extensive search for a CEO and winds up with Tilton and Dave Neelman can get Dave Barger? What does an oil man know about the service industry? I would have looked for someone internal to the airline business maybe a high level person over at SWA, or someone who grew up under a world class CEO like GE's Jack Welch or someone internal to Gerstner's IBM turn around buts thats just me. I mean after all Tilton did have months of CEO experience over seeing the sale of Texaco. Oh by the way why was Texaco sold, because it's managers (like Tilton) did such a good job running the company?

What would I do?
Continue to pressure to lower the debt. It's beyond comprehension how UAL could be exiting ch11 with more debt then AMR has (without the benefit of ch11).

Continue to operate in ch 11 until the summertime and exit ch11 with a boat load of cash after operating all summer in ch11.

That would have allowed UAL to exit ch11 without having to go to Tony Soprano to mortgage the house for a loan. More cash after the summer means less borrowed from Chase. As if screwing UAL on the loan was not enough look into the details of the FF program now that Chase has it.

Either go all TED or not, don't come out ch11 with a mixed bag and mixed signals. I still don't know what UAL is, is it TED or premium service on a 757 only from coast to coast, or is it the leader to the Pacific? To me it's just an airline exiting CH11. He has done nothing to market it's strengths.

Concentrate more on your Star alliance partners. AMR survives with little or no Pacific presence. How do they do it? Rely more on STAR, tie more of UAL's success to theirs. Let the STAR partners pick up more of the low yeild European, South America and Latin America flights. Make it painful for them, if you go out of business, they won't want to lose the feed. Right now UAL is too proud to admit that AMR and CAL own the Latin/South America flying Or that CAL and DAL control most of the European flights. Concentrate where you make money stop trying to be the all powerful international carrier. Those days are gone.

Feet simplicity is a key in reducing costs. The first thing AMR did when they ran into trouble, was drop the more room in coach and reconfigure everything For example AMR operates one type of 777 or MD80 no matter where it's operated. How many different types of configured 777, A320 or 757's does UAL continue to operate? "United will emerge from the most costly bankruptcy in American history with 26 separate in-flight seat"

Wait in ch11 until the price of oil is such that you could at least establish some sort of fuel hedging program. Right now UAL has nothing and is relying on ticket price increases to combat the rise in fuel costs. Now is not the time to exit ch11, when UAL can even control the price of a ticket at it hub? Did you notice how SWA increased it's prices at most places except Denver, what does that tell you?

You don't exit ch11 with a plan based on $50 oil when oil is $67, you wait.

Institute a turn around program that promotes employee participation. UAL wins, we all win. On time equals money, profit equals money, kick SWA but in DEN equals money, whatever it is, people are motivated by money. That stock option mess is going to do more harm then good. You like to defend Tilton, did Bethune get a similar package over at CAL when they were exiting CH11?

I could go on and on but it's late and I am only going to get ripped for this tomorrow.

 

[GuppyWN]

Ever heard the one about the UAL gal pestering center for a shortcut? Some unknown voice came over the radio and said "just be patient sweetie, your whole career has been a shortcut."

Stepping off the ridgeline,
Gup