netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2004
- Posts
- 2,741
My 2 bits worth--ladies first...
FAcFriend, the 1000 pilots that took the job in the last 4 years had been upgrading quickly to PIC, so while not paid what they should be, still weren't making 28K very long. Getting stuck on FO pay is something that happened in the last 2 yrs or so. Yes there is something they like--the type of flying they do--constant change, more responsibility for decisions, etc. And don't forget that the contract had been under negotiation already for the majority of those hired during that time. Who'd ever have thought that it'd take 3 yrs to get a TA!! The new hires were told by other pilots that they'd get an "industry leading contract" and heard repeated promises of "kick-ass" pay. Just because the last MEC failed miserably doesn't mean that fair pay isn't possible. It just means that the pilots need to have leadership that truly cares about them and their families and is willing to work hard for them (more about that later). As far as your computer programer analogy goes, I respectfully suggest that it's far too broad to be useful. In all skilled labor there are levels of talent and experience that come into play. With the face-to-face interaction between the pilots and wealthy/famous owners seen at NJA, it's also reasonable to assume that people skills are a consideration as well. Being a good pilot is not a guarantee of having diplomacy and a welcoming attitude. Others before you, have mentioned an over supply of pilots, but NJ is known for hiring only the best; if they lower their standards that reputation could surely suffer. Furthermore, pilots have been refusing the job because the pay is too low and the (now defeated )TA was bad. My husband's F16 friend is now in training at AirTran for better pay. We are seeing another rule of economics at play here: Companies that are unwilling to pay for the level of skill/experience they desire must either lower their standards or raise wages. Don't you think the owners will complain if they are given beer after paying for champaign? With accidents recently in the news, I believe safety/experience will continue to be a high priority for them.
Texasasskicker, I'd bet that many NJ pilots do have a backup plan, but they like the job and think their cause is worth fighting for. As I've tried to point out before, balance is an important goal. My husband, and other NJ pilots, enjoy the flying and px interaction. They want to have a contract that allows them to stay at a job they like. That said, thanks for your show of support! It helps.
Kingtut, what "reality" is your low opinion ("they will go from hero to A-hole...") of the SU leaders based on? My high opinion of them is based on my own personal exchanges with some of them, my husbands' teleconferences w/all of them, and evidence of their strong determination, to help the pilots, which we have seen already. When you add to those facts, the REALITY that we have had FAR MORE communication from SU in the past 3 months than we had from the last MEC in 3 years, it makes your opinion appear harsh and hasty, not to mention, unfounded.
NJAFrac pilot--where do I begin?? Obviously your use of "WE" could have had a $25K signing bonus applies to a small minority. My husband was only offered $5K (after 21 months w/NJ) and that is the same that a brand new hire would have received. How is that fair?? You only mentioned pay (clearly yours is far higher than others) but the TA was terribly flawed in all areas. The yes voters were agreeing to a list of regressions that 82 % deemed unacceptable. Additionally, the weak scope clause would have placed many jobs at risk. Apparently--not yours. It seems to me, you fail to recognize that the basic premise of a union is to get the most possible for the most members. One would think that if the FO/FOs can hang on for a better contract, while making less than $30K a year, then surely your family can as well. Do we think the MEC turned stupid over night? LOL...don't ask! Seriously, I think they were in over their heads but were too arrogant to admit it. SU, on the other hand, is more than willing to obtain the service of experts and make use of the talent/experience offered by other pilots. NJW
FAcFriend, the 1000 pilots that took the job in the last 4 years had been upgrading quickly to PIC, so while not paid what they should be, still weren't making 28K very long. Getting stuck on FO pay is something that happened in the last 2 yrs or so. Yes there is something they like--the type of flying they do--constant change, more responsibility for decisions, etc. And don't forget that the contract had been under negotiation already for the majority of those hired during that time. Who'd ever have thought that it'd take 3 yrs to get a TA!! The new hires were told by other pilots that they'd get an "industry leading contract" and heard repeated promises of "kick-ass" pay. Just because the last MEC failed miserably doesn't mean that fair pay isn't possible. It just means that the pilots need to have leadership that truly cares about them and their families and is willing to work hard for them (more about that later). As far as your computer programer analogy goes, I respectfully suggest that it's far too broad to be useful. In all skilled labor there are levels of talent and experience that come into play. With the face-to-face interaction between the pilots and wealthy/famous owners seen at NJA, it's also reasonable to assume that people skills are a consideration as well. Being a good pilot is not a guarantee of having diplomacy and a welcoming attitude. Others before you, have mentioned an over supply of pilots, but NJ is known for hiring only the best; if they lower their standards that reputation could surely suffer. Furthermore, pilots have been refusing the job because the pay is too low and the (now defeated )TA was bad. My husband's F16 friend is now in training at AirTran for better pay. We are seeing another rule of economics at play here: Companies that are unwilling to pay for the level of skill/experience they desire must either lower their standards or raise wages. Don't you think the owners will complain if they are given beer after paying for champaign? With accidents recently in the news, I believe safety/experience will continue to be a high priority for them.
Texasasskicker, I'd bet that many NJ pilots do have a backup plan, but they like the job and think their cause is worth fighting for. As I've tried to point out before, balance is an important goal. My husband, and other NJ pilots, enjoy the flying and px interaction. They want to have a contract that allows them to stay at a job they like. That said, thanks for your show of support! It helps.
Kingtut, what "reality" is your low opinion ("they will go from hero to A-hole...") of the SU leaders based on? My high opinion of them is based on my own personal exchanges with some of them, my husbands' teleconferences w/all of them, and evidence of their strong determination, to help the pilots, which we have seen already. When you add to those facts, the REALITY that we have had FAR MORE communication from SU in the past 3 months than we had from the last MEC in 3 years, it makes your opinion appear harsh and hasty, not to mention, unfounded.
NJAFrac pilot--where do I begin?? Obviously your use of "WE" could have had a $25K signing bonus applies to a small minority. My husband was only offered $5K (after 21 months w/NJ) and that is the same that a brand new hire would have received. How is that fair?? You only mentioned pay (clearly yours is far higher than others) but the TA was terribly flawed in all areas. The yes voters were agreeing to a list of regressions that 82 % deemed unacceptable. Additionally, the weak scope clause would have placed many jobs at risk. Apparently--not yours. It seems to me, you fail to recognize that the basic premise of a union is to get the most possible for the most members. One would think that if the FO/FOs can hang on for a better contract, while making less than $30K a year, then surely your family can as well. Do we think the MEC turned stupid over night? LOL...don't ask! Seriously, I think they were in over their heads but were too arrogant to admit it. SU, on the other hand, is more than willing to obtain the service of experts and make use of the talent/experience offered by other pilots. NJW
