Why is NetJets TA Unfair?

[netjetwife]

There is no trust in the MEC or 284, so the pilots have been documenting their votes, and quite commonly sign their posts with the way they voted and/or report it on the board, in addition to the above process, which was set up by SU in response to repeated requests from the pilots for their votes to be safeguarded. It IS possible that some voted yes for the TA, but turned in a petition. Possible, but NOT too likely. If they're going to "take the "retro" and run", why would they care who they left behind? Read my post again----I did say that there would still be enough No votes to carry the day. Do they have a crystal ball? No, they have something better. They emailed in pictures of their ballots with their line badges next to it to a special account. SU HAS actually been, meticulously prepared, unlike the 5 that CLAIM to be yet NEVER were, relatively speaking.


The petitions were collected by over 200 volunteers and sent to one (I believe) collection site. They are being hand delivered and presented Mon 24 Oct to James Hoffa, General President of the Teamsters. The drive will continue and the number will go much higher.

When is the vote? I'm sorry, I thought I'd given you guys my Halloween hint. I've made posts to the affect that they should stop the "tricks" as the pilots are expecting a treat. If I haven't posted that here, I apologize. I do sometimes forget what I've posted where, hopping between the 3 boards. Just prior to Halloween you'll hear shouts of TRICK or TREAT. Please be ready with a nice selection of congratulatory remarks for the NJ pilots.

Thanks for the discussion,
Netjetwife

 

[kingtut]

Be careful not to bellieve your own press reports.

Be careful of internal polling. People tend to avoid confrontation by agreeing with you regardless of their actual postion on the issue in question. (Don't suppose an INDPENDENT TA poll has been done?)

 

[netjetwife]

Maybe it will help if I describe the process better? My husband placed the TA ballot on his desk, circled NO, placed his line badge beside the ballot, took a digital photo and emailed it in along w/the mailing details. He was following the directions SU had posted. A poll, even an Independant one, canot compare to digital copies of votes. The only thing better is the formal announcement which comes out in about a week.

 

[kingtut]

Do you ever sleep? You do live in the Springs: Right?

Ok, How many digital copies of the NO vote does the SU have?

 

[gunfyter]

ALL of the Petition signers are NO votes.

The Local 284 Pilots message board has been Abandoned and is a Virtual Ghost Town. Everyone has moved to the Strong Union message Board.

There is ZERO chance the TA will pass.

 

[Hawkered]

Gunfyter,

You need to take that crystal ball back to the psychic hotline clearance sale...it doesn't work.

Voted yes AND signed the petition.

 

[SkyGirl]

HeavySet, thanks for the reasoned response. For others I think the mysogynistic attacks are an indication that some here couldn't get a date for the Prom and have never gotten over it.


Next question:

Does the relationship with the manufacturer of their aircraft enjoyed by Flexjet, Citation Shares and to a certain extent, Flight Options, give them an operational advantage over NetJets in the marketplace?

-SkyGirl-








~

 

[netjetwife]

Hawkered, your position doesn't surprise me but it does disappoint me. I told you in an earlier post that your instincts are right on most of the issues. We just need to work on that pessimistic streak... I hope we don't have to drag you "kicking and screaming" into the future..lol. WHEN the TA goes down next week where will that leave you? Standing with one foot on the wrong side of history and one pointed toward the future, sounds rather uncomfortable, to me...

Kingtut, many of us know how the process works; that does not mean that SU reported the tally to me, personally. Then again, I never asked. Those involved, that are paying attention, have complete confidence in the outcome. I sleep in on the week-ends and the days when my husband is home. Other days I nap w/my 3 yr old if I need to. When I paint, I often sleep only 4 hrs a night. So I'm used to this. I have a view of Pike's Peak in one direction and the USAFA in another. Blue skies here today so I'll be painting outside.

Have a good weekend, guys.
NJW/P2P team member

 

[niteflyr]

yep, unfortunately I know several people who have voted yes, but agree we need to get out of 284 still and have signed the petition. Others have caved to the "hounding" you get on the road all week now and just signed it to be conformist. To quote a familiar phrase, "I am Fearful" that this really could pass...

 

[kingtut]

And NO ONE has really answered the question?

What Happens if the TA passes? I know what the denizens of this board WANT to believe, but enough of that. BE HONEST, WHAT IF THE TA PASSES? What happens next guys and gals. Where do ya go and what do ya do?

 

[rajflyboy]

TA won't pass unless Local 284 tampers with the vote!

 

[netjetwife]

Yes voters that have signed the petition? I have no doubt that some have done so. Is the number large enough to affect the usefulness of the petition count in gauging the outcome of the TA vote? That I do doubt--very seriously.

Hounding? Please be fair, Niteflyr. Being asked repeatedly, by different pilots each time, is evidence of union building and should not be characterized as "hounding". My husband and other pilots we know, are asking for signatures. They haven't resorted to arm-twisting; they wouldn't do that. Furthermore, it isn't necessary, anyway. Local 284 drove the pilots away by their own actions. That "yes voters" have also signed the petition is proof of that fact.

Caving/Conforming? They shouldn't do something they don't believe in. Instead of shooting the messenger, learn to say no. Here's one they can try......"I'll take a look at that later on my own, thanks anyway."

Fearful? Yes, I have had exchanges--phone and emails--with some so fearful that they have become irrational in their arguments. The selfish ones recognize the flaws (in the TA) but they just don't care. Both groups are hard to reason with; fortunately, they represent the fringe element.

Standing on the right side of history,
NJW/P2P team member

 

[rajflyboy]

Looks like Netjetwife is standing strong here!

 

[gunfyter]

Will be looking for another job....

 

[netjetwife]

And NO ONE has really answered the question?

What Happens if the TA passes? I know what the denizens of this board WANT to believe, but enough of that. BE HONEST, WHAT IF THE TA PASSES? What happens next guys and gals. Where do ya go and what do ya do?

I should think that many pilots have a plan B that they'd fall back on. Hoping for the best while preparing for the worst is prudent behavior. I also believe that there have been enough irregularities to warrant an investigation in the UNLIKELY event that the TA were to pass. For the sake of argument, I'll pretend that the TA count was honest and it still failed. Over time, NJA would not be able to attract and retain the level of experience they had previously when pilots were willing to take a chance on a growing company. Standards would be lowered. Recent accidents show us where that leads. I don't think that's a place anyone wants to go.

 

[niteflyr]

I was merely quoting how I have had it explained to me, "hounding" was not the term I came up with so don't jump all over me now NJW, believe it or not I am trying to be on the SU side. SU themselves just put out an announcement apoligizing for the way they have come across to certain people, many have been offended by some of the tactics their followers have used. This is not my first union or first vote, its always funny how they seem to pass but no one ever admits they voted for it. I say again...I hope I am wrong. Back to lurking I guess, didn't mean to get anyone worked up just by giving my observations....

 

[rajflyboy]

Having a plan B is an important thing right now. It will be interesting to see Santulli and Boisture's next move if the T/A gets voted down. Never know what they might try and do next!

 

[netjetwife]

No need to leave Niteflyr---

I'm sorry if my post was perceived as an attack; I didn't mean for it to be. I, too, was just trying to share my observations. There probably are some over-zealous pilots in the group. In a pilotforce numbering over 1800, that is going to happen. I truly believe, though, that the vast majority are trying to conduct themselves as professionally as possible--esp, given the current situation.

Again, I say that there is a disinformation campaign going on, and it appears to me that you have been a victim of it. There is no wide-spread "hounding" to get signatures. It simply isn't necessary and most pilots are smart enough to realize that such behavior would only hurt their cause.

I'm pleased to hear that you support SU. SU is a huge organization--a movement if you will--and not just a slate of 5 candidates. Hundreds have volunteered, including my husband (and me), to be a part of the unity building process. In spite of the difficulties we currently face, I see this as an exciting, hopeful time for the NJA pilots and their families.

 

[rajflyboy]

Netjetwife:


Your a pretty good writer. You should write for a Newspaper in the Springs!

 

[old*art]

And NO ONE has really answered the question?
What Happens if the TA passes? I know what the denizens ..........

It is reported that there is already an IBT investigation by the legal dept and I am sure some sort of lawsuit would follow. There is no way this TA could legally pass.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, there is nothing unfair about the proposed TA - it is just unacceptable vs what we have now.