Where have all the TWA gone?

[magrs]

What's sad, and I mean really sad, is that anyhting positive about TWA will only be reagrded as sour grapes. I worked there for five years, and it was by far, the best damn place in the world to work...PERIOD! We didn't make a lot of money, but damn did we make up for it in lifestyle!!!

I always said I would give almost anything to work for 75K as an F/O for TWA than work for $150K anywhere else. If you didn't live it, you'll never understand. It is not always about the $$$ on your paycheck, you can actually enjoy work, and collect a nice little salary along the way!

I will always hold my years with TWA as the most enjoyable in my aviation career. American may pay me better, but those extra dollars don't buy the memories!!!

 

[aa73]

AAflyer,

Well written, and I think I have echoed the same exact sentiments on several occasions...

One can't compare AA to TWA fairly. One is a huge conglomerate, the other was a smaller, "family friendly" operation that had to stick to gether during the tough times. I too wish we had some of that TWA culture here.

I would also like to put forth my sentiment in that you guys bore the brunt of some pretty nasty behavior. I have nothing but respect for the "Kmart guys!" (Nordstrom is more than a little stuck up.)

XTW, AA717DRVR, B6DRVR, Rudderdog, NAA, PHX767, and especially TWA Dude, (and the others I've forgotten), I enjoy corresponding with you guys. Please realize that not all of us "Natives" necessarily agree on how things shook out.

I miss you too TWA, thanks for the thousands of safe miles around the world.

 

[chriskcmo]

I never wanted to be an airline pilot, but having grown up in STL, TWA was the airline I would have wanted to fly for.

I'm a CMSU alum as well and have gotten to know several TWA folks. Marty Cupp worked as Chief Flight Instructor at CMSU for a year or so after getting furloughed. Not only was Marty a great boss, but he helped dozens of flight instructors at CMSU get jobs at airlines and at charter operations. I learned a lot about flying from him, which he learned from countless TWA pilots. I also got to work with Bob Prezetak a little bit on Aviation Department things. Talk about somebody who knows how an airplane works.

I know several people who flew for TWA who don't anymore. One was lucky and retired in 98 (Wes McCullough). The rest got caught up in the merger and were furloughed. It's been said on here before, but I'll say it again, every TWA pilot I've met is a gentleman and a professional.

Since I worked for a TWA pilot, I got to hear a ton of great TWA stories. The Captain who got off the airplane on his last flight before retirement wearing uniform pants which were made into shorts with Captain's stripes sewn along the cuff of the shorts with the Chief Pilots and VP of Flight Ops greeting him at the gate. After the merger, the TWA Captain turned AA FO who wore the "Missing Stripe Formation" on his epaulets and uniform coat. The captain who's name is Angie, but used to be Kenny.

I wish I could have been a part of it all. Best of luck to all of you.

FRACPT,

We just interviewed for about 50 seasonal pilots, although it appears that number will be reduced to about 25. We currently have a pilot base in STL and most of the trips are out & backs. Training is conducted at Airbus in MIA and is improving. By the way, I am a CMSU alum also!

 

[XTW]

aa73 + AAflyer,


Thanks for the kind words. We all know that barbs have been thrown from both sides for the last 4.5 years. I sincerely hope that if, and when, we all get called back, we are able to let all the the animosity subside. Unfortunately, I don't think it will happen. The bottom line is, the little fish got eaten by the big fish, and sh*t happened. That is business. Personally, I hope to be able to tell AMR, "Thanks, but no thanks" when my recall comes. It was a company that I never applied to, and never wanted to work for. It's kind of refreshing to hear that not everyone(on the AA side) agreed with the outcome of the merger/buyout.

Anyway, back to my whiskey sour.

Mr. X

 

[CSY Mon]

Personally, I hope to be able to tell AMR, "Thanks, but no thanks" when my recall comes.

Yeah, I am thinking along the same lines, BUT AA still have the best retirement plan in the business.
Depending on how old ya are and what yer crystal ball looks like, AA may or may not be a good bet for the golden years.

It was a company that I never applied to, and never wanted to work for.

In that case: Easy choice, resign and never look back, ya never wanted to be there in the first place.
Cut yer losses like the PanAm guys.
(Exept the ones that did get screwed by Delta...History repeats itself)

 

[pylut]

3hrs24min later...

originally posted by csy mon

At any rate, you and the rest of the TWA guys can have the last word, I am getting tired of the whole suject and ain't gone stick my nose in these threads anymore

uh huh.....right.
nice self control

 

[AA717driver]

originally posted by csy mon

uh huh.....right.
nice self control

XTW kind of opened the door an let him back in... TC

 

[CSY Mon]

uh huh.....right.
nice self control

Well, I lied....

Nah, not showeling sh!t back at bitter TWA guys who made the wrong career choice and then blamed their misfortune on the AA pilots.

No Sir, I am being nice and just doing small talk these days.

If ya look around, ya will see that the old hard-core TWA dudes I argued with a year or two ago are staying away from this here subject...They are probably tired of it too, just like myself..

At least this here problem AA VS TWA is/was fairly clean...No scabs involved.
It could have been a lot worse. CAL...EAL...

Last night I flew with an ex Eastern pilot...One that did not cross the picket line.
Being a MIA based non-sched we have plenty of Eastern scabs on the property.
My hat off to the real EAL guys, most have dropped, but not quite burried the ax...
I would have failed the scabs on a line check due to lack of moral character and spine control. (No sh!t)

Within AA/TWA we have some bitterness and bitching on the internet, but ex-TWA guys flying the line these days says they are happy to be there and the AA guys flying with them says they are grateful and appreciate AA's buy-out and hopefully some kind of a future.

 

[CSY Mon]

XTW kind of opened the door an let him back in...

Uh, thanks Mr. AA717, but no permission needed to get back in.

I will always be here to look after ya and be yer quality control.....

 

[XTW]

XTW kind of opened the door an let him back in... TC

Actually, it just kind of proves how much CSY is a person of his/her word.


X


PS See how long it takes for another pot-shot.

 

[TooBad]

yea my buddy who jumped ship at TWA to go to Delta in 99 says their ramp office in ATL is called "The Morgue". i know when he is there because he is talking quiet on the phone. He says everyone looks at him if he pipes up. what a bunch of maroooons!!!

anyway after being told to leave ...i was at North American for almost two years and now at JetBlue.

at the peak i believe we had 20 at North American......can't even guess how many at JetBlue...anyone???

There has to be well over 30+ pilots and countless F/A's. Not to mention some managment types that are there. Todd Burke, Tom Amato....(great people). A really cool place to be.....

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

I am now out of the airline business, but I will always miss my two and a half years at TWA. Almost without exception, every captain I flew with was outstanding and treated me with respect. I also learned a great deal from those captains. Although I enjoyed my time there, I would have been better off if I had gone to Frontier or AWA. If only I had known that I would be out of the business and looking at a ten year furlough. Oh well, at least I have some good memories of my time at TWA. Best of luck to the rest of the former TWA guys and gals out there.

 

[XTWA717]

TWA Family

I was only at TWA for a little over a year before it all unravelled.TWA was family.I was never been around a more professional group of pilots,flight attendants,etc.I have never enjoyed going to work more than I did at TWA.May American catch some of the spirit that made our airline a great place to be.

 

[aa73]

IMay American catch some of the spirit that made our airline a great place to be.

Unfortunately, not very likely, as much as I try!

AA pilots are embedded with a culture of bitterness, brought on by years of strife within themselves, their union and management. The result is selfishness and backstabbing amongst the pilot group, picking up OT with guys on furlough, in essence eating their young. Having said that, a lot of it is how you present yourself when you show up for work. I am a very upbeat person and it helps out with the atmosphere a lot, especially when I'm paired with a "sour grapes" captain.

I think AA would have to go through a major downsizing, and actually face a couple of liquidation threats, for our employees to really "pull together" like the TWA employees did. It is my understanding that TWA had a much colder culture until OZ came in and "laid the place back." I think if more ex TWA pilots staffed the Flight academy, we'd start seeing a lot more change for the better.

In any case, I'll always keep my hopes up.

 

[AA717driver]

aa73--You are right about TWA prior to OZ (acutally it took the rape and pillage by Carl to do it). When I got hired in late '88 I was an FE on the L10. Believe me, we had more than our share of a$$holes. In fact, they outnumbered the good guys.

It took a long time for some of the people who were the "golden boys of aviation" in the '60's (the equivalent of a 23 year old hired at AA in '83) to change their attitude and become decent to fly with. Some never did.

The really sad thing is that once you get rid of the superiority complex, you realize this is an awsome job and you start having a blast. The people at AA who are a$$holes are only hurting themselves by missing out on a great time. TC

 

[Fly-n-hi]

TWA was great. Like any airline they had a few bad apples. But overall they were a fantastic group to be around.

I, too, come from a TWA family and traveled from Hawaii to Europe on TWA and we always had a great experience. There was a feeling you would get stepping on the airplane like a sense of pride.

As an Eagle FO in San Juan (or the "Rock") I was having a beer at the Embasy Suites when a TWA crew showed up. We started talking and these guys and gals invited me to join their party. We rented a cab and went to some cool restaurant and had a good time for a few hours. These people had no idea who I was. That's just how it was.

If I ever commuted on TWA I was always treated well by the flight crews as well as the gate agents. They were always accomodating.

Then, when I was based in DFW, with a different airline, I would commute in on AA. Different story. Now this isn't meant to bash the AA guys, but the truth is that there is a different culture at AA. The gate agents, especially the ones in DFW were as big of jerks as anybody. Trying to jumpseat was like pulling teeth. And not just to me...they treated AA pilots bad, too.

Walking through Terminal A and B I would try to make eye contact and say hello. 95% of the AA guys would completely ignore me. At first I thought it was because I worked at a regional airline but I later noticed that they didn't talk to each other...the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents. It was completely anti social and it didn't change in the three years I was there.

Anyboby that was friendly or outgoing at AA was an exception to the rule. I realize if your airline has 10,000 pilots it's harder to get to know people but there's definitely a culture difference at AA.

I'm certainly not saying that the AA pilots aren't professional or good at their jobs. I'm just stating the fact (an obvious fact) that they generally are not a friendly group as compared to the TWA group.

Maybe some AA guys can shed some light on why this is the case?

 

[Spooky 1]

SWA is like TWA with good management TWA was a great place to work. good people and fun times

Sorry to break this news to you. SWA will never be the great airline that TWA "once" was. An airline that flew all over the world in any number of different aircraft is not the same as a hop/skip/and a jump outfit like SWA. Two different airlines with two very different mission profiles. SWA does what it doesvery well, but don't get it confused with an airline like TWA. Sorry in advance if this hurts your feelings, but it's a reality. As for the long term prospects for SWA? Just like TWA, PAN AM and a host others that have gone before them, they are all subject to the fortunes and blunders by management and irrational employees, so thirty years from now, we could be having this same conversation about SWA, JB, AirTran.

 

[aa73]

I'm certainly not saying that the AA pilots aren't professional or good at their jobs. I'm just stating the fact (an obvious fact) that they generally are not a friendly group as compared to the TWA group.

Maybe some AA guys can shed some light on why this is the case?

Flynhi,

I can't really explain why the culture is the way it is at AA. I've only been here six years - but what I've noticed is that everyone here seems to have an ax to grind, and that reflects on their actions. Maybe it is bitterness from the B-scale days, or from the constant bickering with the APA and management, or from the backstabbing that happens on a daily basis amongst the pilots. I don't know.

What I do know is that I have fun on the job, and it's my choice to do so. I don't get involved with APA stuff - that keeps me very happy. I'm relatively young and have many years left here, and consider myself one of the "Next generation" AA pilots who are a lot more laid back and I try and reflect that. Plus, I come from the commuters, specifically from a very CRM-friendly airline, and have been trying to spread some of that style into our cockpits (with mixed results.)

You just can't compare the culture between AA and TWA. Night vs day, dark vs light, boring vs lively, however you want to describe it. TWA was the last of the great global carriers, and I think we all miss it, because it represented those golden days of air travel where everyone had a good time. And they did, right up to the very end. That spirit still lives on, you can see it in almost all of their ex employees.

That said, I am trying my darndest to implement some of that spirit at AA. It's just hard with the current attitude, but I think it will prevail. Spread the love baby!

 

[aa73]

The really sad thing is that once you get rid of the superiority complex, you realize this is an awsome job and you start having a blast. The people at AA who are a$$holes are only hurting themselves by missing out on a great time. TC

No kidding, I remind them of that on a constant basis. These are the guys who always have an ax to grind, for whatever reason.

I still have a blast, even with commuting to reserve to a base 1400 miles away from home and being one of the bottom guys.

 

[chacka]

What made TWA was not the aircraft or destinations, it was the people. Be it on the DC-9, MD-80, B757/767 and so on, it was the crews, maintanence (sp?), rampers, gate agents, etc. We were a family and we stuck togeather. From what I know of SWA, they are a family as well.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

CSY is the only guy that doesn't need permision to be an A-hole

Uh, thanks Mr. AA717, but no permission needed to get back in.

I will always be here to look after ya and be yer quality control.....

You sure like to hijack threads and throw negative energy in threads that don't concern you, but get real sensitive if someone adds an opinion to a thread you don't like.

If and when I ever return to AA, I look forward to meeting and working with AAFLYER and AA73. I hope I never have the displeasure of ever meeting your sorry @ss. I spelled @ss with one "A" since you spent too little time on property at AMR. I have worked three times longer than you for AMR not including my time at TWA and am pretty sure I have more friends on the AA side then you ever will.

Let us know if you need more help with those NASA reports. It must be hard to keep that 747 on the assigned altitude when all you can think about is how much rubber dog sh!t you will need for all those TWA flight cases. I bet you buy that stuff by the pallet in Hong Kong. Go get 'em "Mav".



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[DashTrash400]

Excellent thread. I was an intern for TWA at the STC in the spring of 2001. I was on the property for three days before the news of the AA buyout leaked, which made my time there somewhat bittersweet. As an intern, I was allowed to jumpseat, so I got to ride along with more than a few crews & they were all a class act. Later, I rode TWA on the last day their FAs worked, and their graciousness and upbeat attitude made me mourn the passing of the airline all over again.

There's one captain in particular that I want to get in touch with. Does anybody know Charlie Parker? He was a JFK-based 767 captain. I rode with him on JFK-CAI & he helped me in a way I never properly thanked him for. If anybody has any info, please PM me.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

TWA pilots at Allegiant Air

We have about 10 - 15 TWA pilots on the AAY seniority list at any given time. There are six of us in SFB. One of them was in my crashpad in STL. It is always good to see and fly with old friends.

Go Big Red!

 

[spacecadet1]

Flynhi,

I can't really explain why the culture is the way it is at AA. I've only been here six years - but what I've noticed is that everyone here seems to have an ax to grind, and that reflects on their actions. Maybe it is bitterness from the B-scale days, or from the constant bickering with the APA and management, or from the backstabbing that happens on a daily basis amongst the pilots. I don't know.

What I do know is that I have fun on the job, and it's my choice to do so. I don't get involved with APA stuff - that keeps me very happy. I'm relatively young and have many years left here, and consider myself one of the "Next generation" AA pilots who are a lot more laid back and I try and reflect that. Plus, I come from the commuters, specifically from a very CRM-friendly airline, and have been trying to spread some of that style into our cockpits (with mixed results.)

You just can't compare the culture between AA and TWA. Night vs day, dark vs light, boring vs lively, however you want to describe it. TWA was the last of the great global carriers, and I think we all miss it, because it represented those golden days of air travel where everyone had a good time. And they did, right up to the very end. That spirit still lives on, you can see it in almost all of their ex employees.

That said, I am trying my darndest to implement some of that spirit at AA. It's just hard with the current attitude, but I think it will prevail. Spread the love baby!

AA73,
As another bottom feeder at AA, I agree with your sentiment. Sometimes I have great trips with great Captains (as you know the Captain really sets the tone). Other times, it is just not alot of fun. I try to remain upbeat and to enjoy the job. Obviously, there are many ominous things happening in our industry, and morale is affected by this. Maybe it is the same everywhere. I'm considering leaving this career. I don't want to be one of those bitter miserable pilots that I too often run into.

regards

 

[aa73]

AA73,
As another bottom feeder at AA, I agree with your sentiment. Sometimes I have great trips with great Captains (as you know the Captain really sets the tone). Other times, it is just not alot of fun. I try to remain upbeat and to enjoy the job. Obviously, there are many ominous things happening in our industry, and morale is affected by this. Maybe it is the same everywhere. I'm considering leaving this career. I don't want to be one of those bitter miserable pilots that I too often run into.

regards

Hey Space,

I can't argue with your plan, a lot of people are getting fed up with the swings in this industry (plus, you're senior to me - guaranteed!) Just remember, you always have a choice in being miserable or not.

The problem with me is, I'm a hopeless optimist, and that keeps me always eager for good news, which keeps me pretty upbeat. That's my key to not being miserable. Let's see if I can keep it up for the next 25 years or so. (the attitude, too... lol)

In any case, best of luck on what you decide to do. Keep in mind, a lot of people have changed careers and realized that the grass needed extra water.

regards,
73

 

[aa73]

If and when I ever return to AA, I look forward to meeting and working with AAFLYER and AA73.

Hey Jeff thanks, looking fwd to your recall as well. Hopefully sooner rather than later.... we just had a whopping 9 early retirements Sept 1. (compared to Delta's 200 or so...)

My Mad dog salutes your Mad dog,
73

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

5 more TWA pilots starting at Allegiant

Sept. 29th.

 

[MQAAord]

I've been away from flightinfo for some time, it appears I've missed quite an interesting thread here!

My husband flew for TWA from 97-99, and he had a great experience there. He had the opportunity to get typed on the 75/76, and do the international flying he'd always wanted to do. He did not stay long enough to be 'AAssimilated' and therefore furloughed. Some classmates of his were though, and they've found work elsewhere. One is flying for a company that contracts to JAL, another went corporate.

As for the 'friendliness' of the AA guys, I found the AA guys to be just as nice as the Eagle guys I flew with. I was with Eagle (F/A) for 6 years, and went over to the 'dark side' just in time to get furloughed after 9/11, recalled, displaced to NY and furloughed again. The guys I flew with during the 12 months I spent there were generally good guys. Sure there were some jerks, there were some jerks at Eagle too. I found that if I was nice to them, they were nice to me. I shared many a cab from JFK to LGA after finishing allnighters so we could commute home.