Where have all the TWA gone?

[Fly-n-hi]

TWA was great. Like any airline they had a few bad apples. But overall they were a fantastic group to be around.

I, too, come from a TWA family and traveled from Hawaii to Europe on TWA and we always had a great experience. There was a feeling you would get stepping on the airplane like a sense of pride.

As an Eagle FO in San Juan (or the "Rock") I was having a beer at the Embasy Suites when a TWA crew showed up. We started talking and these guys and gals invited me to join their party. We rented a cab and went to some cool restaurant and had a good time for a few hours. These people had no idea who I was. That's just how it was.

If I ever commuted on TWA I was always treated well by the flight crews as well as the gate agents. They were always accomodating.

Then, when I was based in DFW, with a different airline, I would commute in on AA. Different story. Now this isn't meant to bash the AA guys, but the truth is that there is a different culture at AA. The gate agents, especially the ones in DFW were as big of jerks as anybody. Trying to jumpseat was like pulling teeth. And not just to me...they treated AA pilots bad, too.

Walking through Terminal A and B I would try to make eye contact and say hello. 95% of the AA guys would completely ignore me. At first I thought it was because I worked at a regional airline but I later noticed that they didn't talk to each other...the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents. It was completely anti social and it didn't change in the three years I was there.

Anyboby that was friendly or outgoing at AA was an exception to the rule. I realize if your airline has 10,000 pilots it's harder to get to know people but there's definitely a culture difference at AA.

I'm certainly not saying that the AA pilots aren't professional or good at their jobs. I'm just stating the fact (an obvious fact) that they generally are not a friendly group as compared to the TWA group.

Maybe some AA guys can shed some light on why this is the case?

 

[Spooky 1]

SWA is like TWA with good management TWA was a great place to work. good people and fun times

Sorry to break this news to you. SWA will never be the great airline that TWA "once" was. An airline that flew all over the world in any number of different aircraft is not the same as a hop/skip/and a jump outfit like SWA. Two different airlines with two very different mission profiles. SWA does what it doesvery well, but don't get it confused with an airline like TWA. Sorry in advance if this hurts your feelings, but it's a reality. As for the long term prospects for SWA? Just like TWA, PAN AM and a host others that have gone before them, they are all subject to the fortunes and blunders by management and irrational employees, so thirty years from now, we could be having this same conversation about SWA, JB, AirTran.

 

[aa73]

I'm certainly not saying that the AA pilots aren't professional or good at their jobs. I'm just stating the fact (an obvious fact) that they generally are not a friendly group as compared to the TWA group.

Maybe some AA guys can shed some light on why this is the case?

Flynhi,

I can't really explain why the culture is the way it is at AA. I've only been here six years - but what I've noticed is that everyone here seems to have an ax to grind, and that reflects on their actions. Maybe it is bitterness from the B-scale days, or from the constant bickering with the APA and management, or from the backstabbing that happens on a daily basis amongst the pilots. I don't know.

What I do know is that I have fun on the job, and it's my choice to do so. I don't get involved with APA stuff - that keeps me very happy. I'm relatively young and have many years left here, and consider myself one of the "Next generation" AA pilots who are a lot more laid back and I try and reflect that. Plus, I come from the commuters, specifically from a very CRM-friendly airline, and have been trying to spread some of that style into our cockpits (with mixed results.)

You just can't compare the culture between AA and TWA. Night vs day, dark vs light, boring vs lively, however you want to describe it. TWA was the last of the great global carriers, and I think we all miss it, because it represented those golden days of air travel where everyone had a good time. And they did, right up to the very end. That spirit still lives on, you can see it in almost all of their ex employees.

That said, I am trying my darndest to implement some of that spirit at AA. It's just hard with the current attitude, but I think it will prevail. Spread the love baby!

 

[aa73]

The really sad thing is that once you get rid of the superiority complex, you realize this is an awsome job and you start having a blast. The people at AA who are a$$holes are only hurting themselves by missing out on a great time. TC

No kidding, I remind them of that on a constant basis. These are the guys who always have an ax to grind, for whatever reason.

I still have a blast, even with commuting to reserve to a base 1400 miles away from home and being one of the bottom guys.

 

[chacka]

What made TWA was not the aircraft or destinations, it was the people. Be it on the DC-9, MD-80, B757/767 and so on, it was the crews, maintanence (sp?), rampers, gate agents, etc. We were a family and we stuck togeather. From what I know of SWA, they are a family as well.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

CSY is the only guy that doesn't need permision to be an A-hole

Uh, thanks Mr. AA717, but no permission needed to get back in.

I will always be here to look after ya and be yer quality control.....

You sure like to hijack threads and throw negative energy in threads that don't concern you, but get real sensitive if someone adds an opinion to a thread you don't like.

If and when I ever return to AA, I look forward to meeting and working with AAFLYER and AA73. I hope I never have the displeasure of ever meeting your sorry @ss. I spelled @ss with one "A" since you spent too little time on property at AMR. I have worked three times longer than you for AMR not including my time at TWA and am pretty sure I have more friends on the AA side then you ever will.

Let us know if you need more help with those NASA reports. It must be hard to keep that 747 on the assigned altitude when all you can think about is how much rubber dog sh!t you will need for all those TWA flight cases. I bet you buy that stuff by the pallet in Hong Kong. Go get 'em "Mav".



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[DashTrash400]

Excellent thread. I was an intern for TWA at the STC in the spring of 2001. I was on the property for three days before the news of the AA buyout leaked, which made my time there somewhat bittersweet. As an intern, I was allowed to jumpseat, so I got to ride along with more than a few crews & they were all a class act. Later, I rode TWA on the last day their FAs worked, and their graciousness and upbeat attitude made me mourn the passing of the airline all over again.

There's one captain in particular that I want to get in touch with. Does anybody know Charlie Parker? He was a JFK-based 767 captain. I rode with him on JFK-CAI & he helped me in a way I never properly thanked him for. If anybody has any info, please PM me.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

TWA pilots at Allegiant Air

We have about 10 - 15 TWA pilots on the AAY seniority list at any given time. There are six of us in SFB. One of them was in my crashpad in STL. It is always good to see and fly with old friends.

Go Big Red!

 

[spacecadet1]

Flynhi,

I can't really explain why the culture is the way it is at AA. I've only been here six years - but what I've noticed is that everyone here seems to have an ax to grind, and that reflects on their actions. Maybe it is bitterness from the B-scale days, or from the constant bickering with the APA and management, or from the backstabbing that happens on a daily basis amongst the pilots. I don't know.

What I do know is that I have fun on the job, and it's my choice to do so. I don't get involved with APA stuff - that keeps me very happy. I'm relatively young and have many years left here, and consider myself one of the "Next generation" AA pilots who are a lot more laid back and I try and reflect that. Plus, I come from the commuters, specifically from a very CRM-friendly airline, and have been trying to spread some of that style into our cockpits (with mixed results.)

You just can't compare the culture between AA and TWA. Night vs day, dark vs light, boring vs lively, however you want to describe it. TWA was the last of the great global carriers, and I think we all miss it, because it represented those golden days of air travel where everyone had a good time. And they did, right up to the very end. That spirit still lives on, you can see it in almost all of their ex employees.

That said, I am trying my darndest to implement some of that spirit at AA. It's just hard with the current attitude, but I think it will prevail. Spread the love baby!

AA73,
As another bottom feeder at AA, I agree with your sentiment. Sometimes I have great trips with great Captains (as you know the Captain really sets the tone). Other times, it is just not alot of fun. I try to remain upbeat and to enjoy the job. Obviously, there are many ominous things happening in our industry, and morale is affected by this. Maybe it is the same everywhere. I'm considering leaving this career. I don't want to be one of those bitter miserable pilots that I too often run into.

regards

 

[aa73]

AA73,
As another bottom feeder at AA, I agree with your sentiment. Sometimes I have great trips with great Captains (as you know the Captain really sets the tone). Other times, it is just not alot of fun. I try to remain upbeat and to enjoy the job. Obviously, there are many ominous things happening in our industry, and morale is affected by this. Maybe it is the same everywhere. I'm considering leaving this career. I don't want to be one of those bitter miserable pilots that I too often run into.

regards

Hey Space,

I can't argue with your plan, a lot of people are getting fed up with the swings in this industry (plus, you're senior to me - guaranteed!) Just remember, you always have a choice in being miserable or not.

The problem with me is, I'm a hopeless optimist, and that keeps me always eager for good news, which keeps me pretty upbeat. That's my key to not being miserable. Let's see if I can keep it up for the next 25 years or so. (the attitude, too... lol)

In any case, best of luck on what you decide to do. Keep in mind, a lot of people have changed careers and realized that the grass needed extra water.

regards,
73

 

[aa73]

If and when I ever return to AA, I look forward to meeting and working with AAFLYER and AA73.

Hey Jeff thanks, looking fwd to your recall as well. Hopefully sooner rather than later.... we just had a whopping 9 early retirements Sept 1. (compared to Delta's 200 or so...)

My Mad dog salutes your Mad dog,
73

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

5 more TWA pilots starting at Allegiant

Sept. 29th.

 

[MQAAord]

I've been away from flightinfo for some time, it appears I've missed quite an interesting thread here!

My husband flew for TWA from 97-99, and he had a great experience there. He had the opportunity to get typed on the 75/76, and do the international flying he'd always wanted to do. He did not stay long enough to be 'AAssimilated' and therefore furloughed. Some classmates of his were though, and they've found work elsewhere. One is flying for a company that contracts to JAL, another went corporate.

As for the 'friendliness' of the AA guys, I found the AA guys to be just as nice as the Eagle guys I flew with. I was with Eagle (F/A) for 6 years, and went over to the 'dark side' just in time to get furloughed after 9/11, recalled, displaced to NY and furloughed again. The guys I flew with during the 12 months I spent there were generally good guys. Sure there were some jerks, there were some jerks at Eagle too. I found that if I was nice to them, they were nice to me. I shared many a cab from JFK to LGA after finishing allnighters so we could commute home.