What's the problem with GJ?!?!

[synchoff]

h25b, why do you keep defending these guys?

Uh, because words have meaning? Particularly labels?

A-holes, maybe. Whipsawer's, absolutely. Scabs, no (not yet, anyway).

 

[h25b]

I dare you to go through all my posts and find one instance where I called CHQ "bottom feeders."

Here ya go...

And we'll have to give up a whole lot in pay increases and work rule improvements that everyone will call us true bottom-feeders right up there with CHQ and Mesa.

Has the practice of refusing jumpseats because of labor issues not been going on before regional jets, regional pilots, or even having an airline pilot under the age of 30 even existed? This isn't exactly a new thing, chief. Its been going on for many years.

This is where your ignorance shines... There's a lot of dumb things that have been going on for years. Does participating in it make it right ??? It has been going on for a while and perhaps you could tell us all what it has gotten us ??? NOWHERE... It's created the situation that we're in now. Having airline pilots under the age of thirty is part of the problem. It creates the division that currently exists amongst the profession which is part of the reason we're in the mess that we're in. Thanks "chief", I appreciate your boundless insight...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Having airline pilots under the age of thirty is part of the problem.

So how old were you when you took that job at CHQ?

 

[h25b]

So how old were you when you took that job at CHQ?

Under 30... Now that I'm over 30 and have been away I can see much clearer. A little more age, a wife, and two kids will teach you not to worry about things that are out of your hands. This whole scheme has been hatched by TSA management. LEGALLY I might add. Nothing has been done outside of TSA scope clause and the GJ pilots have crossed no picket line. So the TSA pilots have no one to blame other than themselves for negotiating a short sighted CBA. It'll be a tough lesson, the same lesson we had to learn at CHQ...

I'm not trying to defend these guys, just pointing out how stupid, pointless, and juvenile your whole quest is... Look back at your airline history. There's always been people willing to cross picket lines. Check out the NWA mechanic's situation. Trying to blacklist/scablist pilots accomplishes nothing and trying to do the same to pilots that aren't even scabs to begin with will achieve even less. But hey, if you've got the time by all means go for it.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Under 30...

So what you're saying is......you were an under 30 airline pilot therefore contributing the degradation of our profession? Tisk tisk.

 

[h25b]

So what you're saying is......you were an under 30 airline pilot therefore contributing the degradation of our profession? Tisk tisk.

Yep, and you're proving my point post by post...

But since you are unable to quote my entire response here ya go...

Under 30... Now that I'm over 30 and have been away I can see much clearer. A little more age, a wife, and two kids will teach you not to worry about things that are out of your hands. This whole scheme has been hatched by TSA management. LEGALLY I might add. Nothing has been done outside of TSA scope clause and the GJ pilots have crossed no picket line. So the TSA pilots have no one to blame other than themselves for negotiating a short sighted CBA. It'll be a tough lesson, the same lesson we had to learn at CHQ...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Yep, and you're proving my point post by post...

But since you are unable to quote my entire response here ya go...

There really is no validity to your "point"....which is apparent by the fact that hardly anyone on this thread agrees with you. I'm really just messing with you now.

 

[h25b]

There really is no validity to your "point"....which is apparent by the fact that hardly anyone on this thread agrees with you. I'm really just messing with you now.

I wouldn't expect anything different in the regionals forum. Likewise to the "just messing with you..."

 

[Redmeat]

There really is no validity to your "point"....which is apparent by the fact that hardly anyone on this thread agrees with you. I'm really just messing with you now.

I agree with him (h25b) whole heartedly.

I've just been biting my tongue while the blood was squirting out of my mouth.

Whether you regional guys realize it or not, the whole regional airline concept was created by management in the late 80's, early 90's to circumnavigate MAINLINE pilot wages. Back then mainline was refered to as THE AIRLINES.

So technically ALL regional pilots are the forefathers of GJ's.

It sucks when it's your turn to get screwed, doesn't it?

 

[jetfo]

Hello Richard:

Oh no doubt... our management can't staff and operate an airline to save their life. Doesn't change what G0 Jets pilots are doing.


Yes it was. One major difference - 9E wasn't purchased to operate as a Mesaba alter-ego and take aircraft deliveries and flights that Mesaba already had been awarded, and Mesaba wasn't shrunk as 9E grew. That's the major difference. NWA's wages won't hinge on us at all - the BR judge in the 1113(c) filing won't be comparing them to us, they'll be comparing them to other legacy carriers.

I agree though, our salaries and people who accept them ARE part of the problem, just in a different way than you mean - G0 Jets is part of the same problem in the same vein; they are willing to undercut another pilot group for a job.


Actually... I wasn't here during the last contract negotiations, so I can't speak to what happened then.

To answer your last question, no, I wasn't one of the PFT people. I was a street Captain who was paid during training. Look at my sig on the left, I came up flight instructing then flying King Airs, Lears, then the 727 before here. Yes, I worked my butt off to get here. No, I didn't sh*t on anyone else on the way. Yes, that makes me above any G0 Jets pilot. Clear?


Took about 5 minutes to put these lists combined in my PDA. When the next "arch-enemy" is crowned, they'll get added too. Doesn't make me feel important, makes me feel like I'm upholding the ETHICAL and MORAL standards this profession is SUPPOSED to be committed to.


Jumpseat Nazi? Sure. What you said. My jumpseat is ALWAYS open to professionals who have earned the privilege... remember that one? "Jumpseating is a PRIVILEGE"...? How many GJ pilots have I refused a seat to? One. Three weeks ago. Pretty pissed off guy... too bad.


It might... and I will simply find a hotel room rather than ask for the jumpseat. Luckily, neither G0 Jets nor Freedom / Mesa goes anywhere I need to go 99.9% of the time.


I file too many grievances to stay off TM's radar for very long.

As far as being concerned about how NWA is going to screw us or, as you mentioned later in your post, directing my energy to thwart management, I have a news flash for you. There's nothing I can do except back my MEC and contract negotiator's 110% when they are battling the company. Being familiar with the RLA you should know that.


Home Depot pays better than years 1-3 F/O - they can feed their family from there and wait for a job that doesn't SCREW OTHER PEOPLE to come available. It doesn't make me "feel good", but I have no sympathy for them either.


I didn't say they WERE Scabs. I said they were one SMALL step above Scabs, and I will treat them as such. As for taking someone's job... how long do you think it will be until TSA starts shrinking TSA while growing G0 Jets if the TSA pilots don't cave? If the TSA pilots hold their ground, how much fear do you think management has of them walking when G0 Jets is there to immediately take up the slack?

That's what I thought.


Possibly, and I'd LOVE to be able to do that, but I have no control over who's in the back. Bad comparison... but you get an A for effort.


BINGO!

I appreciate your reply. I still repectfully disagree. I think pilots should support other pilots and not allow management to play us off against each other. We are just playing into their hands. They are screwing us!

All I can tell you, even knowing your position, if I were at GoooJets and you asked me for the jumpseat I would still give it to you unless you were obnoxious. We need to support each other not fight amongst ourselves. It's the airline management and ALPA national that is selling us out. The rest of us are just trying to make a living doing what we love to do. (Which by the way is being exploited by management at every opportunity)

We are all in the same boat and we better start figuring out who our friends are and who we are up against. Otherwise this profession will not be worth pursuing if Duane Worthless continues protecting mainline interest at the expense of the ever increasing regionals. Which, by the way are not regionals at all by any rational definition. They are taking over mainline flying everywhere.

The main problem isn't alter ego operations, the main problem is that ALPA has allowed flying to be outsourced to the lowest bidder. If we don't put a stop to this soon, Mesa will be flying 737's as regionals and have the majority of "regional" flying at commuter cost.

We need to advance the idea that ALPA needs to establish a national pay structure by seat numbers or weight. And, maybe this will finally stop this playing off regionals against regionals and regionals against majors ( if there are any left).

And Richard, maybe next time you are asked for the jumpseat by someone maybe think about the fact that they are not trying to take advantage, but may just be trying to survive in this industry, as many of us are.

You are certainly welcome in my jumpseat anytime. Take care!

 

[Bushhatesyou]

woops

 

[Bushhatesyou]

Actually... I wasn't here during the last contract negotiations, so I can't speak to what happened then.

To answer your last question, no, I wasn't one of the PFT people. I was a street Captain who was paid during training. Look at my sig on the left, I came up flight instructing then flying King Airs, Lears, then the 727 before here. Yes, I worked my butt off to get here. No, I didn't sh*t on anyone else on the way. Yes, that makes me above any G0 Jets pilot. Clear?

Im sure many of the Glo Jets guys have "paid their way" as flight instructors, ect. My point is, 9E was once considered to be a piece of S!it, and their work force to be bottom of the barrel. You guys sold your selves out while hurting XJ pilots in process.

The Glo Jets pilots are not the ones to be blamed, the managment is. No matter how much you complain, how much you threaten to deny a jumpseat to some guy trying to get home for his son's birthday. There will always be companies like Glo Jets, and pilots will always work for them. The best thing you can to is educate and try to stand together, instead of piss and moan..

You know what the diffrence between a pilot and a jet engine is right???

 

[Lear70]

jetFO, I appreciate your ideals, I really do. It would be GREAT if we could all band together to fight a common enemy - I just don't see TSA pilots holding hands with the G0 Jets pilots after their management stonewalls the TSA negotiating committee for a few more years and they end up walking away without a job or signing a sh*tty contract because management doesn't fear a strike - they now have a backup plan.

Honestly, I can see your point about a lot of the G0 Jets pilots not knowing any better and just trying to get by in aviation, but I just can't bring myself to condone that kind of self-serving justification. Being a 3rd generation pilot I was raised differently I guess and just have a very low tolerance level for it.

I guess we'll just have to "agree to disagree".

Bush, you're exactly right on that last part. That's why I said I sincerely hope the TSA guys are being aggressive in going to these new-hires and educating them on what they're doing to the TSA pilots and their bargaining position.

Education is the key. Hell, it's the key to EVERYTHING. I'm also one of those people who would gladly form a national group of pilots to go to aviation campuses everywhere on "education missions" to let them know what they're really in for with the future of aviation.

Dry up the supply of willing low-hour, low-wage pilots and we might have the start of some recovery in this industry. *sigh*

Meat, can't argue with you there. Didn't EVER think I'd be at a regional - wasn't in the career plans. Wish we'd known a decade ago that eventually the regionals might grow to outsize their parent carriers in terms of daily departures...

p.s. Bush, 9E is STILL considered a piece of sh*t...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

the whole regional airline concept was created by management in the late 80's, early 90's to circumnavigate MAINLINE pilot wages.

I think you know that the above statement is pure bullsh1t, but I'm not naive enough to fall into your trap. In case you need a refresher, regional jets nor "regional airlines" existed in the 80's or even early 90's. I'm not very old, but even I know that. During that time there were "commuter airlines" and there were "major airlines". The "commuter airlines" were created to provide turboprop service. You make it sound as though companies like Comair were originally formed to take mainline jobs...give me a break. What were they going to do it with? Their Navajos? The truth is, whenever the RJ came onto the market some of these "commuter airlines" began buying them and became something larger known as "regional airlines". THIS is where you mainline folks failed to secure your own jobs by standing up and demanding scope to keep your jet flying. You can blame everyone else if you want, but you all are the ones who did not want the regional jets or see it as a threat from the beginning.

 

[Redmeat]

Back then they were called commuters

Good-Night!