What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?

[405]

Nope. That's one of those "operational planning" thingys I'm not supposed to know. When I retire I understand they'll give me a Limited Edition lithograph of the Big Picture. Until then, I review the release, the NOTAMs, FICONs, Wx, and logbooks. Then, if the fuel numbers and route look cool, I slip the surly bonds with confidence, secure in the knowledge that Dispatch has the original oil-on-canvas Big Picture hanging over their crt.

A little note in the "Arrivals" section of our airline-specific 10-7 Jepp page mentions which direction to park at the gate, and that a/c larger than -30's are verboten.

Silly new captain! I thought the Operational Planning folks would never send an aircraft where it wasn't supposed to go.

Gotcha!

Had they tried to send my DC-9 to LGW or HKG, I like to think I'd have noticed. But since we do, in fact, fly DC-9's in and out of HPN daily, it didn't seem that unusual to me. I'm not responsible for which type of airplane Dispatch tells me to fly, I simply did my part of the job: Notified them there might be a problem as soon as I read the "where to park" note, then flew my aircraft and passengers safely to LGA. I even greased the landing!

If it was some sort of prank that Dispatch likes to pull on new captains...then I guess the joke's on me! I thought "trick questions" were for History mid-terms, Jeopardy! and the SAT's.

You could've prevented that diversion too by taking a quick peek at the Jepp 10-7's for HPN before you left the gate. Oh wait, that's not your job. My fault. All of that responsibilty rests squarely on Dispatch.

Glad you greased the landing in LGA. I'm sure the pax were impressed.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You could've prevented that diversion too by taking a quick peek at the Jepp 10-7's for HPN before you left the gate. Oh wait, that's not your job. My fault. All of that responsibilty rests squarely on Dispatch.

Ok, I'll agree. Now please list the things I need to double-check because dispatchers can't be trusted. Make the list as comprehensive as possible. And of course, don't forget "The right size aircraft".

(sheesh)

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer printed at the bottom of each release:

This work product may contain errors ranging from minor omissions to gross blunders. Your failure to catch them does not make me accountable for producing it.

Glad you greased the landing in LGA. I'm sure the pax were impressed.

Nah, I gave the dispatcher full credit. I told 'em the runway at HPN was kinda bumpy, but thankfully the dispatcher forced us to go to a runway I have mastered.

There's no "405" in "Team".

 

[405]

Ok, I'll agree. Now please list the things I need to double-check because dispatchers can't be trusted. Make the list as comprehensive as possible. And of course, don't forget "The right size aircraft".

(sheesh)

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer printed at the bottom of each release:

This work product may contain errors ranging from minor omissions to gross blunders. Your failure to catch them does not make me accountable for producing it.



Nah, I gave the dispatcher full credit. I told 'em the runway at HPN was kinda bumpy, but thankfully the dispatcher forced us to go to a runway I have mastered.

There's no "405" in "Team".

It's all my fault.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's all my fault.

Not in that case specifically, but I agree with you in principle.

See? Peace on Earth!

Merry Christmas!

 

[405]

Not in that case specifically, but I agree with you in principle.

See? Peace on Earth!

Merry Christmas!

Razor, if you have that little trust in dispatchers, maybe you need to go fly crop dusters.

Unfortnately, 3% (my estimate) of our pilots are like you at my airline and we ALL know their names. They don't trust us and we sure don't trust them. Thankfully, the other 97% are true professional aviators. That means if they have a problem, they call us and together we (that means dispatcher and pilot) communicate effectively to resolve an issue. Your concept of "don't trust dispatch" doesn't belong in Part 121 operations in my opinion.

I would have a real problem putting my family on a plane you were commanding.

 

[propsarebest]

That same 3% are the same group of guys that have the COMMAND complex, the world revolves around them. I think because they have small pee pee's, they seem to take it out on everyone else. Have fun driving your Miata home.

 

[RJAA]

Oh come on, let's be fair on this one. We all would like to think that 100% of dispatchers conduct their jobs professionally and do the job to the best of their ability but speaking from my experience working for two companies, it isn't always so. Some don't really communicate well, some would say they don't care because it's legal and continue to tap tap send and play Zuma all night and we all have taken turnovers that aren't up our own individual standards at some point in our careers. We all know who they are in the office. When a dispatcher pull something shady or say something irresponsible, the pilots will also remember you. However, if you pay attention to details and do it in a smart way, they usually don't call even on a stormy day, or if they call, usually they are courteous. Your name on the release is your reputation. If they think that you are worthless because of what happened two months ago and decided not to call to use your resources to avoid the hassle, how good is that? The point I am trying to make is it goes both ways.

 

[405]

RJAA, it does go both ways and I agree with you 100%. There's bad dispatchers out there too. There's also a percentage of dispatchers out there who don't have the experience, don't care about the job, or just do what they need to do to get a paycheck. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is at most airlines now. Blame your management. Pay is garbage and benefits are worse. I will go on the record and say that the dispatchers I work with care about the job that they do and want to do the best job possible.

Razor is at a Major though. If he has issues with his dispatchers after 11 years after one snafu, WHICH HE COULD'VE PREVENTED ALSO (sorry, you dropped the ball too, Razor), he needs to move on to something a little less strenuous.

 

[Occam's Razor]

RJAA, it does go both ways and I agree with you 100%. There's bad dispatchers out there too.

Wow! Really?

You mean I might actually have a point, and I might have run into one of those "bad dispatchers" you mention?

There's also a percentage of dispatchers out there who don't have the experience, don't care about the job, or just do what they need to do to get a paycheck. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is at most airlines now. Blame your management.

Huh? You blamed me! You think I have a chip on my shoulder, or a "thing" against dispatchers. Which is it? Was it one of your bad dispatchers...or totally my fault?

Is it possible I am a professional, and you are forming an incorrect opinion on my professionalism based on a single anecdote posted on a Forum?

Nah! You don't like my attitude, so I must be a jerk.

Razor is at a Major though. If he has issues with his dispatchers after 11 years after one snafu, WHICH HE COULD'VE PREVENTED ALSO (sorry, you dropped the ball too, Razor), he needs to move on to something a little less strenuous.

I don't have "issues" with our dispatchers. I make it a habit to double-check as much as possible on each release. This guy on flightinfo said there are bad dispatchers out there and told me I should have caught this major boo boo on a release I got 11-years ago. Normally I'd trust all dispatchers, but ol' 405 says there's bad ones who need me to find their mistakes. (In an earlier post I asked him to tell me which areas I should check, and which I should trust 100% on every release...but he refused to respond to that...)

 

[Occam's Razor]

That same 3% are the same group of guys that have the COMMAND complex,

FAR 121.535 It's not just a good idea...it's the law.

[Note: I didn't write it]

the world revolves around them.

Ha! You've never been to my house. I'm the 6th most important carbon-based unit here. I'm lucky if the dog listens to me!

I think because they have small pee pee's,

Hey! You've been talking to my wife!

they seem to take it out on everyone else.

What...my pee pee?

Creepy!

Have fun driving your Miata home.

Nah. It's an old pick-up. And it'll be more fun to drive when I get around to fixing those u-joints up front.

 

[405]

You mean I might actually have a point, and I might have run into one of those "bad dispatchers" you mention?

You have a point. The difference is that we (dispatchers) don't think we're always right like your type does. It's hard for some people like yourself to admit you're wrong.

You blamed me! You think I have a chip on my shoulder, or a "thing" against dispatchers. Which is it? Was it one of your bad dispatchers...or totally my fault?

I will continue to consider you as part of the chain of events. Sorry. Check your Jepps before you depart. It's that easy. We don't catch everything and neither do you. That's why we (in your case are supposed to) crosscheck each other, pro.

Is it possible I am a professional, and you are forming an incorrect opinion on my professionalism based on a single anecdote posted on a Forum?

Yes, that is possible. However based on your past posts I will back my comments on post #95.

Nah! You don't like my attitude, so I must be a jerk.

Yep, concur there. You definitely stink of the arrogant, "I'm-never-wrong" pilot.

I don't have "issues" with our dispatchers.

Yeah, you do. You said you did in an earlier post.

I make it a habit to double-check as much as possible on each release.

Congratulations, Razor. You're almost a part of the team. It'll take some time but you'll get there.

This guy on flightinfo said there are bad dispatchers out there and told me I should have caught this major boo boo on a release I got 11-years ago. Normally I'd trust all dispatchers, but ol' 405 says there's bad ones who need me to find their mistakes. (In an earlier post I asked him to tell me which areas I should check, and which I should trust 100% on every release...but he refused to respond to that...)

No, I didn't respond to that stupid request. You know what to check don't you? You're a professional pilot, right? Other pilots may check more than you do so don't blame us when you miss something. Essentially that's what you're doing here.

 

[405]

Razor, I'm done. Let the thread get back to the original subject.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Razor, I'm done. Let the thread get back to the original subject.

'Kay. The topic is the ever-popular, sure-to-build-a-good-team, " What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?"

[Note: No mistakes made by dispatchers should be made in this thread!]

 

[405]

'Kay. The topic is the ever-popular, sure-to-build-a-good-team, " What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?"

[Note: No mistakes made by dispatchers should be made in this thread!]

Where's your sense of humor, Razor? C'mon. Lighten up, man.

Pilots never make mistakes. Dispatchers are to blame most of the time. I disagree with that. We agree there, right?

Okay, good. Now...

Please share how your airline builds a "good team concept" between dispatchers and pilots. I'm asking this seriously.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Where's your sense of humor, Razor?

Dang. I don't know. It was here a minute ago...

Pilots never make mistakes. Dispatchers are to blame most of the time. I disagree with that. We agree there, right?

Nah. You're not reading for comprehension. I've posted that I make a LOT of mistakes. I depend on others to catch them. Sometimes, after we've been through an experience where a mistake was caught, we share it as an amusing anecdote. We trust that those hearing it won't get their undies in a bundle reading about how somebody else caught the mistake, and learned an important lesson in the process. We hope they don't take it as a professional slam. I know I don't...which is good, cuz I've made thousands of mistakes while doing my job.

Here's an un-PC thing to write...but it is a cold, hard fact: The pilots operating the flight are executing the mission, and all others are "support". That's not a slight at anyone, or any profession. It's just the way it is.

When I flew in the Marines, that role was reversed. The pilots are just a single element of the the combined arms operation that supports the Marine rifleman on the ground. We can shoot down all the MiGs in the sky and have the greenest "greenie board" in the Air Wing, but until the 19-year old LCpl on the ground takes the hill, all our efforts are focused on him. I was very comfortable with my place in that "pecking order" and considered it a privilege to play a part in his mission.

Dispatchers, schedulers, rampers, mechanics, etc are there to help the pilots execute the mission. The FAR's even spell that relationship out in clear, unambiguous language. The PIC is allowed to deviate from any FAR to prevent something icky happening to the passengers or aircraft. I'm not familiar with a similar FAR regarding dispatchers, mechanics, (both of whom are also FAA certificated), or rampers that allow such unfettered discretion.

Please share how your airline builds a "good team concept" between dispatchers and pilots. I'm asking this seriously.

They don't, and I think that's one of the reasons they are spectacular losers. I think every new-hire pilot should have to "plug in" with Dispatch for a "push" to see what is going on, and get a touch - see - hear idea of what resources are available to him/her. It'd be nice if pilots had a clue of how busy the SOC gets whenever wx crumps a hub, and 100 flights are all barking for some direction from Dispatch...but I'd settle for just of taste of ops during a hub bank.

I also think all new captains should have to observe a "push" in Approach Control at one of our hubs. I think that would be an eye-opener too.

In 1993, when our brilliant management moved our SOC away from the airport (where pilots congregate during "productivity breaks") we lost the personal contact we had with the Planners, Meteorologists (we still have those), Schedulers, and Dispatchers. Now those folks are just a voice, or plain green text on an ACARS screen.

If I was the Emperor of the World (and how come I'm not?), I'd conduct Annual Refresher Training with all Operations department folks together. I'd run simulations to watch how they all integrate, then de-brief their performance. But that would cost money...

Can't have that!