What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?

[WarnerNo13]

WE ARE NO MORE OR LESS IMPORTAMT THAN YOU PILOTS

Which is exactly the point that I am making!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its just that some of you are hung up on this authority to declare an emergency thing!

We're not hung up on it, really we aren't. I hope to never exercise this authority. It's safer to say that you pilots are seemingly offended by the fact that someone else has any kind of authority, you know that power trip that seems to run rampant in your ranks.

 

[SSDD]

Whatever...

 

[WarnerNo13]

Uhhh... no. Let's say one of us drops dead in the middle of the afternoon while the flight is in the air. Honestly, you're telling me that you believe losing a dispatcher will have as much of an impact on the safety of a flight as losing a pilot? Come on.

You fulfill an important function, and while you're jointly responsible for the flight, you're not the one in charge of it. That's the nature of your job.

It's all about perspective. If you drop dead in the cockpit I may have to declare an emergency for you, or a dispatcher on board may volunteer to help the other pilot in a serious emergency.

On the other hand, how important can I be if I drop dead and you don't get a flight release? You won't be flying anywhere without that release.

If it makes you feel better to think you are a more valuable organism taking up space in this world, be my guest. It doesn't affect my life in any way. It's just nice to see some humility from time to time.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Whatever...

What an in-depth, professional response. Sorta reminds me of a teenage girl.

 

[SSDD]

Professional. Like this whole thread has been professional? YGTBSM

I'm saying that we are both part of a team. You insist on making yourself the MVP...its like banging my head against the wall.

Yeah, whatever!

 

[RJAA]

Warner, stop this nonsense. If you drop dead, the airline will go on. Some one else will pick up your desk and generate your releases, not a big deal. These posts are embarassment to my profession.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Warner, stop this nonsense. If you drop dead, the airline will go on. Some one else will pick up your desk and generate your releases, not a big deal.

Well, if you drop dead, the airline will go on as well. My point was that a good share of pilots like to minimize our responsibilities. You have to get out of your heads that we are trying to take charge of the flights. You have to get into your heads that every single flight we are watching sometimes up to 20 at a time, is OUR responsibility. We have a myriad of regs, policies, issues to keep track of for multiple flights at once, while planning your later flights. More important? Who cares, it's important to me and it's important to me that you are safe and I don't miss anything that could affect your flight. Yes, pilots don't know everything and we don't either, but it's my job to stay ahead of the game and keep you informed.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Warner, stop this nonsense. If you drop dead, the airline will go on. Some one else will pick up your desk and generate your releases, not a big deal. These posts are embarassment to my profession.

RJAA, stop this nonsense. If you drop dead, the airline will go on. Some one else will pick up your flight controls and land your plane, not a big deal. These posts are embarassment to my profession.

 

[SSDD]

If I'm not mistaken, RJAA IS a dispatcher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RJAA]

Affirmative! Thank you! and also a pilot.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Affirmative! Thank you! and also a pilot.

Whatever you are, it doesn't change the point of what I and other dispatchers are saying.

 

[homerjdispatch]

back on subject...

I thought this thread was about the dumbest things we are asked or requested. I doubt this thread was started to see who has a larger manhood! Now lets here some more of those dumb things WE ALL DO AND SAY!

 

[Mr Wu]

The truth about dispatchers declaring an emergency when the pilot can't be contacted.....


ATC: Flight 123, you copy

F123: Go ahead.

ATC: Your dispatcher declared an emergency because he can't contact you. Proceed to your alternate, XYZ.

F123: Standby. (tries to contact dispatch, but can't)

F123: ATC, we're unable to contact dispatch. Can you do a phone patch.

ATC: No. Too busy.

F123: Did they say the nature of the emergency?

ATC: Negative.

F123: We're unable to verify that the call came from our dispatch so I am proceeding to our destination ABC. If he calls back tell him to pound sand.

 

[RJAA]

Toolbox.

Wu, your crap makes no sense. Why would your dispatcher declare emergency because you are not talking to him/her. I already said that's not what we do. You are talking to the ATC. However, from time to time, your dispatcher may pass along information that may be pertinent to the safety of your flight and it is in your best interest to listen. Maybe it's a security issue or any threats to your flight. Someday you will realize if you want to work for an airline that has transcons/international you might appreciate the update on the changed conditions, but hopefully you will stay on the B1900. Now often, as a dispatcher, we get a call from center saying you are not talking to them in New York airspace enroute to EWR. That's a problem. Now how it happened I don't want to know, but it happens a lot, and for that, we have to drop everything that we are doing and try to establish contact with you. That's what we do tool. or "Hey help! we are over the gulf and we lost our center freq!"

 

[Occam's Razor]

Feeling a little self important today?

Gulp!

I don't think so. I try to follow ALL FAR's...not just the one's that relate to what a dsipatcher can do in an unusual circumstance. Can you post FAR 121.535?

Also, the catch-all FAR that allows the PIC to deviate from ANY FAR in an emergency?

FAR 121.557 (b)

(b) In an emergency situation arising during flight that requires immediate decision and action by an aircraft dispatcher, and that is known to him, the aircraft dispatcher shall advise the pilot in command of the emergency, shall ascertain the decision of the pilot in command, and shall have the decision recorded. If the aircraft dispatcher cannot communicate with the pilot, he shall declare an emergency and take any action that he considers necessary under the circumstances.

Is it your interpretation that the last sentence permits a Dispatcher to deviate from any FAR?

If so, please lay out a scenario that would have a dispatcher deviating from any FAR after he declares an emergency on behalf of the flight crew.

Two weeks ago I violated an FAR willfully in an emergency (flew 330 KIAS under 10K' to get a passenger in cardiac arrest on the ground), so it's not a huge stretch to see how a PIC can violate FAR's with some frequency.

I can probably think of few more esoteric examples, such as diverting a 121 flight to an airport without sending them current NOTAM's, but I'm looking for an operational FAR...but I'm looking for something that would have a dispatcher clearly violating an FAR without the PIC's concurrence.

The genesis of the thread was (my interpretation): "Tell us how lame pilots can be sometimes".

I think that generates a natural "Us vs. Them" reaction from those of us in the pointy end...the first one's at the scene of the accident. There have been plenty of threads on this Forum that could be called, "Stupid Pilot Tricks", and there are hundreds that divide us professionally (Regional vs. Major, Legacy vs. LCC, Senior vs. Junior, etc). Do we need to stir the pot with something that cleaves dispatchers from pilots as well?

I posted my anecdote to show that boo boo's occur at both ends of ACARS. I apologize if that fanned the flames. I'm proud of my profession, and I accept that doing my job safely requires the assistance of several other dedicated professionals. I have enough experience to know exactly where my authority fits in the hierarchy of airline operations.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Is it your interpretation that the last sentence permits a Dispatcher to deviate from any FAR?

Yes. It is my interpretation that a dispacher has the responsibility to deviate from any FAR he/she deems nessesary to ensure safety of flight. Such as diverting an aircraft to an airport not listed in the c70 page if its the best option.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yes. It is my interpretation that a dispacher has the responsibility to deviate from any FAR he/she deems nessesary to ensure safety of flight. Such as diverting an aircraft to an airport not listed in the c70 page if its the best option.

'Kay.

Not to get too "chicken or egg" here, but what if the PIC elects to NOT go to that airport? At some point we're gonna get to the point where a single individual is going to be accountable for where and why the aircraft ended up where it did. Something about "final authority".

It may sound petty (I speak fluent "petty"!) but it's a big deal right now in the industry. There are a lot of pilots concerned about the erosion of "captain's authority". In at least one case, an airline (a legacy carrier) published FAR 121.535 (still waiting for that post!) in their FOM, but deleted two words: "...without limitation...". ALPA had to step in and have the two words in the actual FAR re-instated into the manual.

We perceive it as encroachment. Whether that's an accurate perception is the stuff that fills pilot Forums.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Wu, your crap makes no sense. Why would your dispatcher declare emergency because you are not talking to him/her. I already said that's not what we do. You are talking to the ATC. However, from time to time, your dispatcher may pass along information that may be pertinent to the safety of your flight and it is in your best interest to listen. Maybe it's a security issue or any threats to your flight. Someday you will realize if you want to work for an airline that has transcons/international you might appreciate the update on the changed conditions, but hopefully you will stay on the B1900. Now often, as a dispatcher, we get a call from center saying you are not talking to them in New York airspace enroute to EWR. That's a problem. Now how it happened I don't want to know, but it happens a lot, and for that, we have to drop everything that we are doing and try to establish contact with you. That's what we do tool. or "Hey help! we are over the gulf and we lost our center freq!"

I just recently had a crew fly through the entire ZKC NORAD. Guess who ATC was hounding to get through to this crew? Yours truly. After about 5 ACARS messages and 4 calls from ATC, we were one step away from jets being launched. When they arrived at their destination, they finally read my ACARS messages. When the captain called me I asked him what was up. They were too busy those 35 minutes cruising ZKC at FL380 with no radio contact, to read and acknowledge my messages. Not exactly said, but one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a crew do. In this case I was the one answering for the crew's lack of situational awareness.

 

[405]

We should drop this thread and start a new one called "What the dumbest thing MANAGEMENT has done or asked lately?"

I think this would be much more appropriate the way this industry is now.

 

[ShutupandFly]

let me remind you of your original comment that merited my posting of the far. I was not trying to take anything away from pilots, just educating you on a FAR you were not aware of. No need to thank me, I'ts my job.

Dispatchers, schedulers, rampers, mechanics, etc are there to help the pilots execute the mission. The FAR's even spell that relationship out in clear, unambiguous language. The PIC is allowed to deviate from any FAR to prevent something icky happening to the passengers or aircraft. I'm not familiar with a similar FAR regarding dispatchers, mechanics, (both of whom are also FAA certificated), or rampers that allow such unfettered discretion.