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What will Flex do?

NewFlex

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Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
23
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5000+
nothing

Answer phone in rest

work more for less

hire only the worst

most fail training

what happened?
 

cosmotheassman

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
466
Total Time
4000
work more for less
compared to what?

hire only the worst
and you just got hired huh?

Guess you created a new name on here to protect your true identity; hence only 1 post...

Answer phone in rest
I've never received a call in rest. The FOM is very clear about this.

most fail training
Tell me how many have failed training in the last year??

So what is your point in this post? Now because of a semi good contract somewhere else, we should be upset of our working conditions? Give me a break... Have some real substance in your argument.

Give me some help here Flex peeps...
 

FraxJockey

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May 15, 2002
Posts
149
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Newflex

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are new here. Been here 3+ years and can say things have improved over the years. Now because of the new TA all of a sudden things here are seemingly so bad. Give me a break. Are things good...yeah, are things great...that's debateable. It all depends on where you came from. Did you haul cargo in a junked out Lear, Falcon,Metro,Beech,Bandit,etc....? I did and consider this a vast improvement. But that's just my point of view.

NewFlex said:
Answer phone in rest

It happens sometimes, but nearly as often as pre 91K, and if you don't want it to happen, turn your damn phone off. Nothing in the regs says you have to answer.

NewFlex said:
work more for less

It seems until recently this has become the case. But the TA hasn't even been ratified so for the time being this is not true. You can't expect management to throw money at us if the TA hasn't been signed (not that I have any doubt that it WILL get signed).

NewFlex said:
hire only the worst

Not true. At the very beggining they were desperate and did hire a few boat anchors. Either you have a chip on your shoulder or fall into this category, but we have an excellent group of pilots. Having said that, "there is always a few rotten apples in a barrel".

NewFlex said:
most fail training

I only know of one guy that busted, and he was given multiple opportunities (3) to pass his type ride. He was given the benefit of the doubt in the sim eval and it bit the co. in the butt, so now they are very selective.

NewFlex said:
what happened?

New pilot...

I'm sure there are many other opportunities out there, look at this as a chance to find them while being gainfully employed.

Frax


P.S. if this is flame bait put me out , because I've been toatsted
 

NewFlex

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Nov 2, 2005
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5000+
You have misunderstood

I've been her for more than 8 years and know that if you do not answer your phone that you will get a warning letter in your file for being uncontactable.
It's already happened. Since 91k. Ask the trainers involved with interveiws how people are doing on they're eval rides and what is said when the evauator says no to hiring them. Lookat the bluebelly and you can find references from the Chief Pilot about what will happen if we don't answer the phone (ie Netjets Crew Rot).

What I am saying is we are barely staying ahead of attrition and we are not getting the same quality of applicant that we got 1 2 or 3 years ago.

Everyone is so darn excited to upgrade that they aren't asking why it is happening.

We have less AC now than we did a year and a half ago.

I'm training right now with the CP and am being told that they expect a lot out of us. That sounds great to me.

Now let us stop answering the phone in rest ever and see them conduct business without us being bullied into ignoring the FOM.

Sound fair.

Not new at Flexjet

Hoping for a new and better Flexjet
 

cosmotheassman

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Jun 7, 2004
Posts
466
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4000
I do agree that some of the people they have hired lately have been "subpar"; but, not the "worst".

If we stay on the current course, I will upgrade in about 2 years. Upgrade time before I was hired was around 5 years. I do think its because of people leaving but, we are getting a buttload of 300's next year (13) as well. You also have to ask yourself why people are leaving. Why would an 8 year captain leave? You can't honestly tell me its because its so bad at the company? It wouldn't take me 8 years to figure that out. We've lost guys to southwest and fedex from what I've been hearing.

CP told us that they were going to hire 48 people this year and I think they have hired around 60. He also said they will hire at least that many next year due to the 55 aircraft we are getting over the next few years.

I agree they need to step up and pay us more or bring the work days down to 181.(ie NJA) I would really like to have a 7/7 schedule as well. A big problem I see is alot of F/O's that go into the 300 are getting alot of job offers because there is no one in the market with a 300 type. They are bailing to exxon etc...

I honestly believe they will step up to the plate next year and give us something. If they don't give us something similar to NJ, I think there will be a big attrition problem.

I do also hope for a better flexjet...but, its not that "bad" right now...
 

hatetoadmitit

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cosmotheassman vbmenu_register("postmenu_802412", true);
I've never received a call in rest

You need to go get drug tested!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to say everyone, but most of our pilots know that Flexjet does call you in rest and you are expected to answer the phone.

Flexjet also demands that you answer the phone in those periods after rest, but prior to duty. This is a clear violation of the 135 rest requirements.

If you dont have a trip until 13:00 the next day but you come out of rest at 03:00; try not answering the phone between those hours and see what managemnt will do to you. FAR 135 says if we hold ourselves out to be ready for work it may not be considered rest.

When and if the F.A.A. decides to get a little more stringent on rest rules, Flexjet MAY be putting their pilots in a bad position as far as a violation. Let see if the company will stand up for the pilots if that happens?
 

cosmotheassman

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Flexjet also demands that you answer the phone in those periods after rest, but prior to duty.

calling you after rest? Since when is that against any rules?

Some people are just content to be miserable...
 

Heavy Set

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cosmotheassman said:
I do agree that some of the people they have hired lately have been "subpar"; but, not the "worst".

If we stay on the current course, I will upgrade in about 2 years. Upgrade time before I was hired was around 5 years. I do think its because of people leaving but, we are getting a buttload of 300's next year (13) as well. You also have to ask yourself why people are leaving. Why would an 8 year captain leave? You can't honestly tell me its because its so bad at the company? It wouldn't take me 8 years to figure that out. We've lost guys to southwest and fedex from what I've been hearing.

CP told us that they were going to hire 48 people this year and I think they have hired around 60. He also said they will hire at least that many next year due to the 55 aircraft we are getting over the next few years.

I agree they need to step up and pay us more or bring the work days down to 181.(ie NJA) I would really like to have a 7/7 schedule as well. A big problem I see is alot of F/O's that go into the 300 are getting alot of job offers because there is no one in the market with a 300 type. They are bailing to exxon etc...

I honestly believe they will step up to the plate next year and give us something. If they don't give us something similar to NJ, I think there will be a big attrition problem.

I do also hope for a better flexjet...but, its not that "bad" right now...

I saw one of ExxonMobil's CL300s at DAL a week ago or so - nice looking aircraft. That certainly would be a cherry gig I'd think... I believe they swapped out all of their 800XPs for CL300s. Talk about being in the right place and the right time...
 

NewFlex

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"calling you after rest? Since when is that against any rules?

Some people are just content to be miserable..."

Get your FAR book and FOM books out again and reread

If you are required to answer your phone you are not in rest.

If you are not in rest then it counts against your available duty time.

Bottom Line. Flexjet is making us skirt the FAR with absolutely no protection if we have a fatigue related incident because they will show us as in rest until the time we go on duty for the trip (1 hour before)
 

NewFlex

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When we answer the phone at our hotel to accept earlier or later trips we are answer our phone in rest. We don’t have to according to the FOM but everyone does it because our Chief Pilot has told us that if we don’t then we will be put on duty at 2am like Netjets was with they’re crew rot. Well I say so be it. It won’t last long it didn’t at NJA and at least we won’t be up all day and then flying all night. And we can have more than just 10 hours off on the road. Ask the guys at NJA what is like to get in at 5pm and get a brief for a 10am trip and know that you will not be called at 4am and told that you have a 6:30am departure cause something changed.

If we are the best of the best then we can plan around these middle of the night changes.

The FAA does not want us to answer the phone. (I checked with our FSDO Manager)

We don’t have to answer our phones on our last day off. (I checked with our FSDO Manager)Wouldn’t I be nice to be told on your last day on that you will report for duty at 8am and that that can’t change to anything earlier or later until you come on duty that day.

Hold our company to the FAR don’t be contactable in rest. Rest only ends at the beginning of the next assigned duty period.

Home reserve, the way our FOM explains it, you never have to answer your phone

You only have to answer your phone when you are not in rest. If you are not in rest it counts against duty availability.

Management can’t have it both ways, we shouldn’t be bullied into skirting the FAR

Threats of having to sit at the airport shouldn’t make us work tired on a day to day basis.

The FAA wants us to be protected from this kind of abuse don’t let it happen Flex has to learn to make money and treat us as Best in Class employees.

Remember the FOM says you don’t have to, don’t let the Chief Pilot bully you into it.

It will only work if we all stick together.

I love my job I’ve been here for more than 8 years but I want us to be treated fairly I want to stay here for a career not another stepping stone.

Does Flex management want this to be a stepping stone? Maybe…
 

cosmotheassman

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If you don't legally have to answer the phone, then don't. It's that simple. If they fire you for that, get yourself a lawyer and you won't have to work again.

The way I'm understanding you is that after your 10 hours of rest you are considered immediately into another duty time but they are not counting it that way?
Rest only ends at the beginning of the next assigned duty period.

Is this the only problem you have at flex? Seems this would be an easy fix if so.
 

Ultra Grump

Mmmmm...beer....
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cosmotheassman said:
calling you after rest? Since when is that against any rules?

Some people are just content to be miserable...
As far as the FAA is concerned, if you are not in rest, you are counting down against the duty-time limits. If you are required to be contactable, you are not in rest, therefore that time counts as duty.
 

vixin

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The way I'm understanding you is that after your 10 hours of rest you are considered immediately into another duty time but they are not counting it that way?

Is this the only problem you have at flex? Seems this would be an easy fix if so.[/quote]

Cosmo,

You are new at Flex. If this was an easy fix then it would have been done. They just hire for attrition. What NewFlex is saying about rest is correct and Flex wont fix it until they get violated. I will ask NewFlex this though. Instead of putting this info here put it on the BB. It is amazing to hear the complainers at Flex yet they are affraid to tell the company. Let the guy at the FSDO know get some action on this. Document everything just in case. This is a growing business and times are changing.

Flex needs to get moving on their answer to the contract. There already is a lot of strife amongst the pilots. They want answers now. They have a long way to go to make this a career place of employment. Our schedules suck and so does the pay. And yes I have been here over 6 years. People are just fed up with the place. Read what little is put on the BB. There isnt much positive on their either.
 

be-400xpdriver

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Apr 1, 2005
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I have a great idea. Maybe all you flexjet guys should get together and tell the company as a group that this calling you in rest in BS. Then maybe you can stick together as a group and ask for a pay raise and more days off. Or what about this how about you all get together and form a damn union and negotiate a better QOL and work rules.
 

Grizz

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I'm sure that watching your QOL degrade over those same 4-6 years is a much better plan. Hope that works out for you.
 

FraxJockey

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Economy of Scale:

In case you haven't noticed Bombardier is mostly an anti-union company. We don't have 2200 pilots...more like 350. Bombardier wouldn't hesistate to shut us down or sell us off in a heartbeat. You don't think NJA wouldn't like to buy the CL300 or LR40/45? It would be like AMFA and the NWA machinists. A union could do a lot of things, but it could not help in our situation....and yes in 4-6 years I'd have a much better QOL here regardless of any change ($$ wise).
 
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