What will Flex do?

[DO-82 driver]

Peter....

If its broke....write it up.

If you're tired....don't fly.

Make sure you do very thorough preflight and post flight.

Use O2 above FL350 on 135 flights. O2 bottle low upon arrival...sorry need O2.

Tire pressure is very critical.

It took a while here at NJA, and not everybody was on the same page, but in the end I believe it had some effect.

Good Luck

 

[G100driver]

Man I wished I worked there (not really) but, that is one legal battle I would love to take on. Regs are regs and violations are violations. Needless to say, I wouldn't have to work the rest of my life they "took action" against me for NOT violating the regs. Take a stand.

Not that I want to work there either, but MAN .... meow meow. I have been reading this thread and my jaw has been dropping. Take a stand men. A lot of NetJet guys may have used this board as a sounding board for whinning but at least they took a stand and a risk. Funny thing, it seems like they got results as well.

SSHHHEEESSSS ... Gimmie a break.

Please also remember that collective bargining is a right.

 

[el raton]

When I'm on the road, I hear this;
1. managment doesn't care.
2. if we ask for to much Montreal will shut us down.
3. 7 days off STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. Don't kill the golden goose.
5.wait and see, flex will step up to the plate.
6. could be flying frieght
7. chill out.
8. we will continue to hire qualified & quality people
9. Lets continue to get the job done.
10 chill out our happiness isn't based on how much someone else is making.
11. I've heard very little about the price of insurance going up.
These maybe insignificant, but the attitude at flex is very passive.(except for the attrition rate.) We are entering our busy season short handed. We now are fly 5 or 6 legs a day, 14 hr. duty days, min rest, show times are manipulated to accommodate our rest while allowing pax to show when were not ready, and much more. This isn't any news to anybody at flex, but we make it work the best we can. Soon we will be back to continous 6 on and 3 off. And we will get a big ada boy on the voice mail.
Flex is starting to grow, the 300s are sold out for over a year, they are bringing on 604s to accommodate the 300 owners. More 40s & 45s, yet we are running short on pilots!!!!!!!! Who would want to come to flex? this is who, everybody who NJA, CS, and Flops rejects. Why would flex be anybodys first choice, err except to build time. I came to work here for the 16 to 17 days in a 28 day bid period. For years I thought NJA and the teamsters were a joke. Boy was I wrong.
Waterview, explain how you are going to solve these little problems, can you afford to loose the core of pilots that you have had for 5 years or more. can you afford to turn the majority of work over to pilots with little experience. Much less the cost to train them. Or what about the rising cost of charter. I once thought this was a place I wanted to stay, and I will if managment does not step up to the plate and match what NJA has I'm jumping ship with the rest. WE will chill and leave at a rate you can't keep up with, then what will the golden goose have.

 

[nightfr8er]

What will Flex Do?

Since this is my first post, I have lots of questions for those of you that are already at the Flex. Sounds like the crew rest issues are the same across the industry. What I want to know is, would you encourage someone to leave the "Connection" industry to go to the Flex for the long term? I have an interview that will be set up in the early part of Dec, and want to know as much as you can tell me. The senior guys seem to like it. How bad are the schedules? How is with cleaning the airplanes and throwing bags for the customers. I don't mind doing some work, but I don't want to be treated like a servant.

I've been told that the upgrade is about 4 yrs right now. Is that true from where you sit? I saw someone else post that he would upgrade in about 2 yrs. Does that mean that he's already been there for 2 yrs?

I'm in the left seat in the "connection" business, and facing a long term pay-cut and possible demotion to the right seat (who knows for how long?) Which place would you pick? The Flex or the Net?

c-ya

 

[hatetoadmitit]

[Which place would you pick? The Flex or the Net?
/QUOTE]



I think the best way to make your decision would be a comparison chart

Work Schedule:
Flexjet: 17 out of 28 days = 221 days per year
Netjets: 7 on 7 off =180 days per year

Pay:
Flexjet: $32,000 per year
Netjets: $39,000 per year

Benefits:
Flexjet: $50.00 to $130.00 per month
Netjets: Free

Work Rules:
Netjets: -If you start before 8:00am on your first day of rotation you get paid overtime for the period.
-You can’t work past 8:00pm on your last day prior to vacation
-You can’t start prior to 8:00am on your first day on after vacation
-You get paid an overtime day for working on a Federal Holiday

Flexjet: -No overtime for starting prior to 8:00am (and you often will)
-Able to work until midnight on your last day on prior to vacation
-Able to start at midnight on your first day on after vacation
-No extra pay for working on a Federal Holiday

But this is really a decision that you need to make?

 

[DO-82 driver]

One more very important factor:

At NetJets....if you have a labor dispute of issue with anything....and I mean anything.....you get a Union Steward to represent you infront of Management.

At NetJets....no pilots stands alone!!!!!!​

 

[gunfyter]

I have a feeling management at FLEX Options etc.. will step up to the plate in December.

Everybody going to be happy

 

[CL604DRVR]

I have a feeling management at FLEX Options etc.. will step up to the plate in December.

Everybody going to be happy

More likely is three fast balls and back to the dugout with out even so much a swing.

 

[Sky Pirate]

The fact of the matter is that Flexjet will have to respond soon. 15 Lear 60XRs were just ordered by Flexjet at NBAA. Add that with the current orders of Challenger 300s, Lear 40/45s and the fact attrition has been crazy, soon they won't have any pilots to fly the nice shiny jets and owners are going to start to wonder why planes are parked and chartering is up. I currently work for Flex but will be making the move soon, because of a significantly better job offer. Any new pilots out there, if you have the choice between Netjets and Flex choose Netjets. I wouldn't have said this a year ago, but I think everyone can agree that they have come a long way since the New MEC was voted in. The other fractions will have to repond making the fraction industry a better long term career move. My advice to Netjet guys, start talking to the Flex pilots about Unionizing and I think you'll be surprised on how many will be interested on what you have to say. I think by pilots working together, there respective companies will have no choice but to provide better salaries and benefits. Lets not be like the regionals.

Bottom line: Bombardier will not sell Flexjet, because it is their best way to sell business aircraft.

 

[gunfyter]

Sky Pirate...

You are plagiarizing my thoughts... LOL

Good post. There will be a response. You know they don't want a union on the property. They will respond.

 

[rettofly]

No Pilot Stands Alone?

One more very important factor:

At NetJets....if you have a labor dispute of issue with anything....and I mean anything.....you get a Union Steward to represent you infront of Management.

At NetJets....no pilots stands alone!!!!!!​

Tell it to the next probie who gets a Bridgeway 1 arrival.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Sky Pirate...

You are plagiarizing my thoughts... LOL

Good post. There will be a response. You know they don't want a union on the property. They will respond.

What company does want a union, really? Sorry about reading your thoughts

Bombardier does not want the thought of a union to even come up, but it has been used in the past for a better QOL. I know the thought of bringing up the union question has gotten people fired in the past(which is illegal, by the way), but the industry may just have to be unionized to keep the people who run the place(pilots) happy. This should be the long term goal for the fractionals, because once this happens the 135 industry will have to respond to stay competative, which will force the unsafe companies to go out of business, which they deserve, thus creating a competative and safer industry. Lets cut the fat. Good companies will always find a way to make money in this industry, its not the airlines, where your customer is someone who is just getting by, we are dealing with the movers and the shakers of the world. They refuse to give up this type of service that we provide, and will in the end pay the premium.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

I’m glad to see by recent postings to the internal company message board that this particular message board is being monitored by at the very least the flex’s chief pilot.

But still the big question remains -- WHAT IS FLEX GOING TO DO??? We don’t want to know three weeks from now as promised in the post – we want to know now. (Just like I predicted – they will wait and see what happens with ratification before they act.)

According to our fearless leader, a 5 year flex capt makes 6k more than a NJ capt after the TA. But he didn’t address the fact that NJ captains will be working 40 some less days per year. So by my math, is $150 enough to keep you home from your family? If your answer is yes then by all means go to flex, wait 10 years to make it to that point and then make a measly 6k more...

Qualified new hires – a MAJOR issue of viability for all fracs at this point – do not look at 10 years down the line when making a choice – they look at the next few years. All fracs right now have long upgrade times, so the issue comes down to $$ and quality of life.

In my humble opinion, $$ doesn’t matter much if you hate your job. And contrary to popular opinion I think most people WANT to love their job. I know I do. Please, management, help us LOVE our jobs. Make us want to stay, and more importantly, make others envy the sh*t out of us.

Do I need to go into why QOL at flex sucks right now – I’m already too long winded as it is… but one thing not mentioned yet is the new health plan SUCKS! We got screwed to the wall on this one – and quite outta the blue too.

 

[Fozzy]

Another group that needs a Union. Guys, they will not give you one penny. You have to fight for it. So all those years that the Flex/CS/FLOPS guys were asking, "when are you guys getting your contract so we can get a raise?", you are getting what you deserve. It is time for you all to get off you collective butts, and negotiate what you believe you are worth. I wish you the best of luck.

Or you can continue to cry here. We will listen. But that is all.

 

[cosmotheassman]

How is NJA going to pay for this contract long term with continuing losses???

I want a raise but not at the expense of people losing their jobs....

and yes, the new health plan SUCKS, I totally agree. The cost doubled for everyone.

I would be ok with bringing the work days down to 180 and keep the same annual pay. I think alot of people at flex would be happy with just that.

Any comments??