What made Eastern GO Under?

[publisher]

flight crew

Flight Crew===You are just another one that does not get it. If you fail to cross a picket line formed in the circumstance of Eastern, you have conceded your ability to think to the ALPA and IAM leadership.

This is almost as stupid as the CCAir deal now where ALPA refuses to sign an agreement that the people voted on.

You get the leadership you deserve. When I want to sign up as a cow led to slaughter, I will let you know.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: flight crew

Flight Crew===You are just another one that does not get it. If you fail to cross a picket line formed in the circumstance of Eastern, you have conceded your ability to think to the ALPA and IAM leadership.

This is almost as stupid as the CCAir deal now where ALPA refuses to sign an agreement that the people voted on.

You get the leadership you deserve. When I want to sign up as a cow led to slaughter, I will let you know.

Great attitude.

Solidarity, unless of course I can get ahead and acheive my goals by breaking ranks and treading over the backs of my friends and colleagues (or in Publishers view, mindless cattle mislead by their union).

I'll bet Publisher still carries his Frankie Smooth Talk Trading cards in a leather attache, not to mention his hip pocket bankruptcy judge decoder ring.

Oh well, to each their own.

Fraternally,

 

[Radioman]

Posted by Publisher My point was that Frank Lorenzo did not take a perfectly good company and drive it into the ground at Eastern. The company was in a death spiral when he showed up

Eastern had many problems before Lorenzo. But the situation was salvagable.Eastern might have survived had it not been for Lorenzo. He used Eastern as a S&L for Texas International and Continental. New jets that were supposed to go to Eastern went to CAL at bargain basement rates. Eastern had to buy fuel from TI at above market rates which went in Lorenzo's pocket. System One, Eastern's computer reservation system was sold to CAL for peanuts. There are many other examples of his corporate shell game of taking assets from Eastern. But the final nail in the coffin was the strike which was provoked by Lorenzo.

Don't make Lorenzo out to be an angel.


Radioman

 

[AAflyer]

Hey Metro,

You forgot to add the "All pilots should be paid peanuts" matching hat and t-shirt.

AAflyer

and Radioman,

So right, they didn't just sell System one at a bargain rate, Frankie then leased it back to EAL at horrible rates, what a guy, if you would like an autographed photo of Frankie just PM Publisher, I am sure he has many.

 

[enigma]

Hey Metro,

You forgot to add the "All pilots should be paid peanuts" matching hat and t-shirt.

AAflyer

You guys are being too tough on the publisher, all he's trying to do is attract the "best and the brightest" to the aviation industry.


Seriously, I don't understand why someone who works in the pilot recruitment business has such a low regard for pilots.

regards;
8N

 

[AAflyer]

Enigma,

I had taken a break from this board last fall and winter, I do notice Pubs attitude, but how did you know he is in pilot recruitment?

AAflyer
"enquiring minds want to know"

 

[stingray]

I personaly lost my job with easterns demise, it also caused my father to reitre before age 60. My father and i would never even think about crossing a strike line. so believe me we lived through it. any one who crosssed the line should be considered a scab and be treated as such.

Radioman you hit the nail on the head.
publisher you have your head stuck elsewhere on this one you haven't a clue what whent on.
F...ing lorenzo took what was airline that could have been returned to its glory of being one of the best airlines, but no he sold off all its assest to other companies within the Texas air company and giving away highly valued international routes in doing this he shut Eastern down, made himself some money and was f...ing thousands of eastern employees and their famlies.
I hope to god that sob never gets on my plane.

 

[publisher]

AGAIN

AGAIN,

I am not defending Lorenzo. He was a shark! The original question was, did he cause the fall of Eastern?

My opinion is, no he did not.

Did he do all the things --bleeding off the assets of EAL-- yes he did.

Was this his original intention?

No I don't think so but if it did not fall into place like he thought, he had a B plan which was to bleed the assets.

Did anyone else show up to save Eastern?

NO, unless you want to count Marty in bankruptcy who pillaged worse than Lorenzo.

SECONDLY

I am not nor was I in the pilot recruiting business. My connection with AEPS was as publisher of the magazine.

You guys ask a business question which I tried to answer as someone who was here at the time. While my memory may be fading, the fact is that most business people thought Borman was a bust as a leader of the airline and sank Eastern. Bryan wanted to prove his power and a pissing contest ensured.

Like I said, you want to blame the Lorenzo's and Icahn's for showing up and taking advantage of a business situation. For the hundreth time--- airlines do not exist to employ, they employ to operate and profit.

None of this has one thing to do with what I think about pilots. Except of course that anyone who disagrees with anyone is an idiot.

Answer me this, when you have a labor action that you believe to be totally unjustified, where it is personal and contrary to your personal beliefs, do you just go along with it for the good of principal when you know it will impact your family in a terrible way.

Eastern was a business tradgedy. Two bullies beating heads in an alley was more productive. People fighting in a boat until the boat is so battered that it sinks and both are lost.... Then we blame the people who would not stay in the boat.

 

[Capn Lucky]

There is one undeniable truth upon which everyone will agree whether they crossed the line or not. That is, Don't ever cross a line or your life as a pilot is over. From what I've gathered, everyone had a hand in Eastern's demise. Lorenzo, imo, had the biggest part.

 

[flywithruss]

Frankie Smooth Talk pillaged Eastern. Borman and Bryan got in to a monumental urination contest. In whatever proportion, these two undeniable facts were largely responsible for Eastern's unfortunate death. Selling System One to Continental for a bag of magic beans (along with the international routes and the new airplanes to boot) then selling fuel and System One access to EAL at above-market rates shows that Frank wanted a place to put all his Texas Air red ink. Remember, after the Big Bang, Texas Air had plenty of red ink, and Frank figured EAL was the place to drop it.

Borman was no friend of the unions, either. He was so fearful of union retribution that he wore a gun to work for a while, don't forget. It was under Borman's watch that BOHICA became the watchword at EAL.

Frank was/is a worm and an enemy of not just labor, but the entire airline industry, as far as I'm concerned. He destroyed just about every company he ever touched, after making millions for himself, not only at the expense of the employees, but often the other shareholders as well.

I heard a rumor a while back that Frankie had been arrested for child molestation or some such thing. Not trying to spread untrue rumors (even about a guy like him), but I wonder if anyone else has heard the same.

R