What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[PHXFLYR]

Are you saying you have me on your "ignore" list???

I feel honored that you would think you cannot carry on a conversation with me. I am one of the few posters that does not flame everyone in sight. I ignore (in my mind) all the fames and hatred being thrown around, but seriousily listen to coherent posts and arguments presented here. If I have a different opinion, I state it from my point of view. And unless I'm called out specifically, I never participate in the fighting between the Easties and Westies....

And with that said, if I really am on your ignore list... Where on that list am I??? Since I'm going for a seat grab, I want to be near the TOP of that list! At least I could be senior on SOME list....

No your not on my ignore list. Just think someone who is new to the property should keep his mouth shut for a while to get a sense of which way the wind his blowing and get his facts together before posting and making a fool of himself. That's all. And don't sit there and tell us you got hired at USAir mainline in 2004. YOU GOT HIRED AT MDA !! Whole different animal.


PHXFLYR

 

[Fast43]

Whenwas the last time you heard an AWA guy say anything other than "Nic award" when the fence subject was brought up?

You haven't heard that anywhere near as many times as we heard DOH. In fact didn't your mec mandate by resolution that nothing but DOH would be accepted............

Didn't work so well I guess.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Yes, you make it sound so simple, but I have some friends who work for US Air in CLT, and they put out a motion to recall the CLT LEC, but the council refuses to hear any part of it????? And, from what I have heard it is because the CLT LEC is kissing alpa national a$$, so national will not do anything about it. It all politics, and alpa national is Always going to do whatever they want, regardless.

As PCL stated, this is not a proper way to recall an officer. From the constitution:
"
F. RECALL OF LOCAL COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE OR OFFICER

At a Local Council meeting, which has been called to consider, among other things, a recall, such Local Council, by a majority vote of the Active members in good standing of that council then present, and valid proxies, may request the Vice President-Administration/Secretary to initiate and circulate a ballot among the Active members of such Local Council for the removal of a Local Council Status Representative or Officer, said ballot to be conducted under Association Voting Procedures. Such ballots shall be validated and tallied under the supervision of the Election and Ballot Certification Board who shall certify the results and notify the Vice President-Administration/Secretary. The Vice President-Administration/Secretary shall promptly mail a copy of the certification of results to the members of the Local Council."

With ALPA national threatening to force a contract down our throat without a ratification vote, this was quicker than replacing the MEC. Not much time left...

I can pretty much guarantee that replacing your entire union takes longer than an officer recall. Also, it's your MEC that would approve a contract without ratification, not ALPA national.

People who go around saying "ALPA did this" or "ALPA is going to screw us" are trying to play on your emotions. As has been said earlier, ALPA has VERY little to say in the decisions at your airline. ALPA works by having each airline MEC make ALL of the decisions for that airline. In other words, we all pretty much already have an independent union. That's one of the issues that many have had with ALPA, the "states rights" theory of governance.
USAPA does a nice job of promising impossible utopia to the membership, such as:

"Merger policy: as provided for in USAPA By-Laws seniority integration will occur by date-of-hire with reasonable conditions and restrictions..."

That's not even legal anymore.

"Better, more efficient services provided"

Thank you for that informative description of your services.

"Simplified committee structure"

again...informative.

"Union officers elected, and subject to recall, by the pilots"

exactly the SAME AS IT IS NOW!!!

 

[Fast43]

With ALPA national threatening to force a contract down our throat without a ratification vote, this was quicker than replacing the MEC. Not much time left...

Could you prove that ALPA National is actually threatening this or are you just parroting the great wizzards of usapa.

F

 

[PositiveRate]

PHXFLYER,

But didn't you read their retorts? You and I are obviously mis-informed as they WERE INDEED hired to US Airways, because the door on their EXPRESS airplanes said MDA operated by US Airways...and don't forget that their ALPA card says AAA. (Heavy Sarcasm here)

The embraer division? You've got to be freakin' kidding me. They did not interview for mainline, they went through a loophole and ended up at the bottom of the list (where they belong). And it seems they've been properly brainwashed into thinking what they read on the USAPA website is gospel.

Like I said - go ahead and vote for USAPA and then get fatigued, sick after checkin, exchange words with a gate agent, violated, DUI, cancer, blah blah blah the day after - you know one of those things that would never happen to you (again with the sarcasm) and see how much your new union has your back.

I can't believe that they have no concern for the effect on every other pilot group in or close to negotiations. They're no better than mesa or gojets by willfully keeping the bar low - not by weakness or intimidation, but through spite. The karma oven is just about as stoked as it can get. As TWAdude said...not matter what happens, we have walked the proper path and will have no blood on our hands. We owe them nothing and if the tables were turned, they would feel exactly the same and the USAPA drive would not exist. The bottom line is this is about arrogance, entitlement and the belief that the majority can extort from the minority.

 

[Freight Dog]

Kerosene, if a 2000 hire at AWA was gnat's ass close to upgrading to captain, and East 1986 hire date FO couldn't hold a frigging bid line as a narrowbody FO, sorry bud... 2000 hire at AWA who's gnat's ass close to captain gets senior in a merger. Any other way = WINDFALL. Sorry, LONGEVITY does not equal SENIORITY.

The sooner you grasp that concept, the better off you'll be.

 

[waveflyer]

Kerosene, if a 2000 hire at AWA was gnat's ass close to upgrading to captain, and East 1986 hire date FO couldn't hold a frigging bid line as a narrowbody FO, sorry bud... 2000 hire at AWA who's gnat's ass close to captain gets senior in a merger. Any other way = WINDFALL. Sorry, LONGEVITY does not equal SENIORITY.

The sooner you grasp that concept, the better off you'll be.

never heard it said better.... i wish i could write as succinctly.

 

[ALGFLYR]

PHXFLYER,

But didn't you read their retorts? You and I are obviously mis-informed as they WERE INDEED hired to US Airways, because the door on their EXPRESS airplanes said MDA operated by US Airways...and don't forget that their ALPA card says AAA. (Heavy Sarcasm here)

The embraer division? You've got to be freakin' kidding me. They did not interview for mainline, they went through a loophole and ended up at the bottom of the list (where they belong)....

Metrojet was a division of US Airways with seperate contract provisions. The planes said Metrojet - not US Airways... Were those pilots ML? Of course they were because they were pilots on the seniority list flying aircraft on the US Airways operating certificate - same as MDA...

Loophole? Not quite... We are legally and rightfully on the seniority list. Yes at the bottom where we belong. I have never said I should be anywhere else before or after this merger.

What are your feelings on the AW pilots hired that flew the Dash 8? That's not a mainline plane yet they are on your seniority list. What backdoor did they go through? Or were they legally and rightfully on your list because they flew an aircraft on the AWA operating certificate?

 

[FR8mastr]

That's all. And don't sit there and tell us you got hired at USAir mainline in 2004. YOU GOT HIRED AT MDA !! Whole different animal.


PHXFLYR

Can you prove he was hired at MDA? the company that did not ever exist.

He can however prove he was hired at US Airways, with applications, and Pria forms ect, not to mention an Airways seniority number from August of 04.

Nobody was hired at MDA! MDA was not a corporation, did not have a certificate, it did not exist. It was a division of US Airways. I dont know how to make that any more clear. Whoever is telling you that MDA was an airline is either lying or just not in touch with reality.
I am sorry if this offends you, but it is what it is, or was.

 

[FR8mastr]

Could you prove that ALPA National is actually threatening this or are you just parroting the great wizzards of usapa.

F

this information comes from ALPA reps not USAPA

 

[Turtle21]

Kerosene, if a 2000 hire at AWA was gnat's ass close to upgrading to captain, and East 1986 hire date FO couldn't hold a frigging bid line as a narrowbody FO, sorry bud... 2000 hire at AWA who's gnat's ass close to captain gets senior in a merger. Any other way = WINDFALL. Sorry, LONGEVITY does not equal SENIORITY.

The sooner you grasp that concept, the better off you'll be.

Since we are sharing advice...

The sooner a pilot realizes that what he gets in return for what he pays to participate on Flightinfo boards is greater than what he gets for paying dues to ALPA, the sooner pilots will be enlightened.:beer:

 

[FR8mastr]

Positive rate, here is a question for you.

In light of all your knowledge, answer me this, Why do you think it said operated by US Airways on the 170's?
I really am very curious as to what you think that was put there for.

 

[Fast43]

Positive rate, here is a question for you.

In light of all your knowledge, answer me this, Why do you think it said operated by US Airways on the 170's?
I really am very curious as to what you think that was put there for.

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

 

[TWA Dude]

My paycheck stub and W-2 reads "America West" but there is no more America West Airlines! I'm a USAirways pilot! Gosh, this is so confusing.

MDA was operated as a seperate division from mainline USAirways. That's the detail that matters as opposed to the paintjob, the paystub, or seniority list. For another example, there are American Eagle pilots who possess an AA seniority number yet they're not AA pilots. So there can exist special relationships between distinct carriers yet they're not the same carrier. I guess we'll find out for sure from the MDA lawsuit -- in five to seven years from now.

 

[Fast43]

These would be the ALPA reps that have served you so well.

I guess you have to believe everything they say!!!

Last I checked hearsay is not proof. Especially from ALPA (usapa card carrying) Reps

 

[FR8mastr]

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

No because they were senior, and at every airline except the west the senior guy gets the first choice.

 

[Fast43]

What are your feelings on the AW pilots hired that flew the Dash 8? That's not a mainline plane yet they are on your seniority list. What backdoor did they go through? Or were they legally and rightfully on your list because they flew an aircraft on the AWA operating certificate?

The Dash 8 was treated just like another piece of equipment and those pilots hired to it could bid off to the 737,757,A-320 and yes even the 747 when their seat lock (that every new hire recieved) was up. No pilots were furloughed needing to be recalled before this could occur.

After our BK 6 Dash 8's were kept and offered for furloughees to fly. The bottom furloughee flying the Dash in 92' (Me) could not fly any of the jets until recalls got down to me. I was Furloughed !! Certificate was the same, Paystub was the same, uniform etc. Same as MDA. But clearly things in the AAA world work differently. You are Furloughed until there is an merger and more names are needed for the list, then imagine that, your on the list. The Arbitrator saw this for what you were trying to do.

It wasn't what you were doing (flying mda ) that made you furloughed it was what you couldn't do (fly a Mainline Jet ) that made you Furloughed. And when "Mainline" jobs were merged, guess what, you didn't have one in the Arbitrators and anyone elses eyes.

Fast

 

[Turtle21]

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

It is simply amazing that a college graduate can point to the outworking of an injustice and then at the same time point to it as a justification for the same.

The year was 1950 and a simple yes or no will suffice. "Was a black man able to drink from a water fountain labeled 'whites only'?"

 

[Fast43]

No because they were senior, and at every airline except the west the senior guy gets the first choice.

Could it be that since a Furloughed Mainline guy got a shot at a Mainline seat before an Active MDA guy (not Mainline) that the Arbitrator saw the MDA guy as "Not Mainline" when he merged "Mainline Jobs"

I think you can see that if you were Hired to MDA that you sorta weren't hired by AAA Mainline much less AWA. Hence the consternation out West that guys who were never truly hired by either side were attempting to be placed ahead of even One AWA guy.

Fast

 

[Fast43]

It is simply amazing that a college graduate can point to the outworking of an injustice and then at the same time point to it as a justification for the same.

The year was 1950 and a simple yes or no will suffice. "Was a black man able to drink from a water fountain labeled 'whites only'?"

So your suggesting that Furloughed AAA pilots should have been forced to accept a job at MDA at 170 wages in seniority order or quit. (would they have done this if they knew they would never get mda its own certificate.......I think you know the answer)

Or

Not allow them to fly it at all. And hire more freightmasters, AGflyers or whoever was hired straight to MDA etc.


Then there would be Justus............I guess