What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[TWA Dude]

Ahh young grasshopper, now you see why the push at USAPA is doing so well over there, ALPA MEC is the one that pushed for that DOH to the bitter end

That doesn't even make sense. You're blaming your MEC for failing to get exactly what USAPA demands? It's no fun arguing with irrational people.

 

[PCL_128]

Ahh young grasshopper, now you see why the push at USAPA is doing so well over there, ALPA MEC is the one that pushed for that DOH to the bitter end.

If you problem is the AAA MEC (and it is), then recall them!!! Getting rid of ALPA and replacing it with a useless, impotent uSAPa will get you nothing. Replacing your MEC with competent leaders will likely lead to a consensual agreement that benefits both groups. You don't have to get rid of ALPA to get rid of your MEC. Why is this so difficult for some of you to understand?

 

[vetrider]

I still guarantee that if it is agreed to let East Keep their retirements and West to keep their retirements and split the growth up between the two this thing is over in a week.

Both get what they brought to the table, both get a taste of the new stuff.

Anything else I think will kill the airline.

I agree with alot of what you say there. I would just like to add that if the east would quit acting up and just move on with it, things would ultimately end up looking a lot like that anyway. I'd put money on it. I think Nic really was to deep a thinker for the more obtuse.

 

[Prog 2/2]

I can say that for most I speak with, they honestly feel that there is nothing that they can lose, and since they have the power to kill this carrier, or make it work, the rest of us that do have something to lose better come up with a way for these guys to feel that they have salvaged something out of theis mess. Nic isn't going to do it for them.

Your chest hurt yet?

I mean, with all that thumping going on, it's bound to be getting a little sore, huh?

Your pilot group has caved in more times than a Utah coal mine, on nearly every issue presented to you over the past two bankruptcies, and now you're gonna draw a line in the sand and die with your boots on?

And, btw, it's not incumbent on me or any other west pilot to sacrifice anything to make you whole for what you lost.

 

[ALGFLYR]

ALG,

F-me?? Classy. You've got it all wrong. I am angry. Not at you specifically, though. I take serious issue with a couple items, though.

---You were not hired by either mainline carrier, so when you come on here talking about how easy it would be to change contractual language to LOS upgrades, you're supporting a viewpoint that $hits on the entire AWA group. How am I supposed to take that?

PositiveRate,

Well, first things first... The F- you comment, yeah, probably out of line for me. The issues we have at hand are understandably emotional for all involved. But you come on here and call me a scab pushing for a "seat grab" and tell me how lucky I am to be here... That is simply NOT TRUE! You revert to name calling and personally bashing me... F-you pretty much summed up my feelings on that... Had I thought about it longer, I could have probably come up with a more mature response... Sorry I didn't go that route... anyway...

As far as my position, I WAS hired at US Airways in 2004 and worked for 2 years before I was furloughed. My ALPA card says "AAA Active". ALL other previousily furloughed pilots were offed the position I took and they turned it down. There is a grievance on-going about how this went down, but that's another story..

As far as me talking about changing contract language, I was not advocating this position, I was merley responding to a post that said there "WAS NO WAY" to change the Nic award. I was just showing that this "Could" be a way... Never say never...

I don't think anyone really wants to S%!T on the AWA group. "IF" the language was changed to LOS, there would still need to be fences to protect your group. If 20 CA's retire from PHX, then the 20 upgrades MUST come from the West to replace them. Thinking an East pilot should is just stupid. If 10 East 767 pilots retire from PHL, then 10 East pilots should take their place. I personally think that fences should be the way to live with the Nic award. Our junior pilot that was NEVER furloughed was a Captain for quite a while. He was subsequently downgraded as we went through BK. So why should he have to wait until EVERY AWA FO upgrades into an originally East CA slot before he gets a chance?

Let us have our pre-merger CA slots for pre-merger East FO's and we will let you have all pre-merger West CA slots for pre-meger West Fo's. All "NEW" flying can be split down the middle. Why is that hard for the West to accept?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Your chest hurt yet?

I mean, with all that thumping going on, it's bound to be getting a little sore, huh?

Your pilot group has caved in more times than a Utah coal mine, on nearly every issue presented to you over the past two bankruptcies, and now you're gonna draw a line in the sand and die with your boots on?

And, btw, it's not incumbent on me or any other west pilot to sacrifice anything to make you whole for what you lost.

Sorry no chest thumping going on here. just telling you what I see everyday over there.

From my point of view if NIC is the way it is going to be, USAirways is already dead. The guys most hurt by it are also the ones with enough voting power to make sure that this mess never gets worked out. There is going to have to be some kind of compromise and Nic isn't going to do it, the majority just will not allow it.

For me if they go down the toilet, oh well. i have been through 4 airlines already in my career and between those and the other stuff, I have more type ratings already than I ever thought I would see on my certificate. I am a junior guy in the middle of this, if I have to dust off an old corporate type or go back to heavylift international flying that will work for me too. I just hate to see the hometown airline that used to be a great place to work end up listed with Eastern, Braniff, Pan-Am and all the rest of the corpses. If that is it's destiny then I will have some fond memories of my time there and move on.

Thanks for the discussion all, I have said my point of view and you have said yours, anymore is just gouging at an open wound.

 

[ALGFLYR]

If you problem is the AAA MEC (and it is), then recall them!!! Getting rid of ALPA and replacing it with a useless, impotent uSAPa will get you nothing. Replacing your MEC with competent leaders will likely lead to a consensual agreement that benefits both groups. You don't have to get rid of ALPA to get rid of your MEC. Why is this so difficult for some of you to understand?

It is a long hard process to recall MEC members. One that is underway though. Just watch the next CLT LEC meeting.... gonna be interesting... If they are successful, a huge shift in power will occur. Anyway, a much quicker way is to replace the entire union. We can only hope this occurs before ALPA National decides to cram something down our throats without us being able to vote on it... This is why this push is happening here...

 

[PCL_128]

It is a long hard process to recall MEC members.

Actually, you could have done it about a dozen times by now if you weren't so focused on shooting yourself in the di-- with this uSAPa nonsense.

Anyway, a much quicker way is to replace the entire union.

No, that takes longer and is more difficult. Maybe if you would have read the ALPA Bylaws a year ago instead of whining and crying then you would have known that.

 

[PositiveRate]

ALG,

For the record, your card my say AAA active, but you and I know that in 2004 you were not hired to mainline...you were hired at MDA and flew a plane with a big EXPRESS painted on the side. You snuck in the back door - honestly I have zero problem with that...good for you, but don't get all uppity like you were an original mainline guy in this. I'm very surprised that you support their opinions as you, like the west, have much to lose in this.

Secondly - Are you serious?!! You think a quicker way to change is to just "replace the entire union". Do you have any real understanding of what protections are lost by doing so? Aeromedical has publically stated they WILL NOT do business with USAPA.

That would suck to be a 55 yr old who gets cancer the week after USAPA or needs a transplant, or something major and no intermediary to help with the process. How about if you bust an altitude the day after USAPA is voted in or have a runway incursion? You better than this?? Think it can't happen to you? What if your spouse/child/parent dies and you are not mentally capable of flying for some period of time? What if you refuse an assignment due to fatigue the day after USAPA arrives and the company decides they don't believe you and attempt to discipline you...who is going to help you?

Anyone who feels it's better and quicker to get "change" by voting for USAPA is truly foolish.

Bytheway...

I didn't call you a scab - I said you were "scabbily salivating" over a seat grab, which is exactly what you guys are doing. I should have used different words to imply that the USAPA attitude is scabbish and toting that party line is just as bad.

Read Kerosene's posts...although he himself seems reasonable, he readily admits there is a faction with yours that will stop at nothing to get 'theirs' back...up to and including killing the airline and the livlihoods of thousands of people who don't deserve this. It's unbelievably selfish to presume they have nothing to lose. By taking that stance, they say they are all that is important and f-everyone else, their families, their chance at working for a healthy airline. These guys must be stopped. Yes their career is/was a $hit sandwhich, but they are OWED NOTHING. They were the bottom of the list and they got a fair shake. You're lying to yourself to think they are justified in the action they are taking.

 

[FR8mastr]

ALG,

For the record, your card my say AAA active, but you and I know that in 2004 you were not hired to mainline...you were hired at MDA and flew a plane with a big EXPRESS painted on the side. .

Sorry Positive Rate, this is where you are misinformed.

He and others were in fact hired at US Airways to work at the division know as MDA. While this may pluck your last nerve it doesnt change what took place. There is plenty of evidence to back this up. The planes did say Express on the side, they also said Mid Atlantic Airways
Operated by US Airways, this was painted by the main cabin door.

Think about that one for a sec. "Operated by US Airways"

There is no Airline called "mainline" there is an airline called US Airways and he worked there in 2004.