What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[PCL_128]

What's your obsession with my vote?

A vote for uSAPa is a vote against ALPA and a vote against the West pilots that uSAPa aims to fu-- over. ALPA is the best thing out there for pilots, no matter its faults, and your attempts at decertification will harm the entire profession if you're successful.

 

[TWA Dude]

I dont really follow your argument.

My point is that while you can make true statements about your time flying for MDA they don't equate to being one-and-the-same as mainline USAirways. In any case, it's really not my argument to make. Nicolau knew exactly what MDA was, he made his decision and any judge will be hard-pressed to overrule him.

 

[waveflyer]

No one argues that Nic was fair and equitable.

I'll argue that sir. I believe it was fair and equitable under a seniority system and capitalistic system that is sometimes, and lately- often, not fair.

If you were 10% up the list after Nic you are now 12% up the list- but w/ increased ability to bid out west- how did you lose? (And make no mistake- as much as east pilots say they hate the award- there are many doing bad West->East commutes that really don't want fences put in. They were just hoping to slide in over the top of the AWA guys like your flight attendants will. Many more of your guys will bid west than AWA guys who will bid east.)

Before the merger you didn't care that you had junior FO's w/ 15+ years while America West and every other carrier had line holding captains w/ 10 years in. Why is it such a deal breaker now?

The reward for your longevity is your topped out pay. Noone has tried to take that from you.

You would be better served to use the credibility of the awful career you've endured to make changing companies easier within ALPA carriers- w/o the huge penalty of starting over. That's why you've seen such enormous paycuts. It's enormously stupid to have pilots so married to their companies.

 

[Turtle21]

I'll argue that sir.

No need to argue a rhetorical point. Sure, there are a few folk who believe in UFOs over Roswell too. And they are very sincere. They also have to admit that the vast majority of the population don't except what they see so there arguments really don't convince many.

 

[Turtle21]

A vote for uSAPa is a vote against ALPA and a vote against the West pilots that uSAPa aims to fu-- over. ALPA is the best thing out there for pilots, no matter its faults, and your attempts at decertification will harm the entire profession if you're successful.

Its a vote. You get to cast one ballet. I am not worried that your single vote will cause global warming, world hunger, and hyper inflation.

 

[PCL_128]

Its a vote. You get to cast one ballet. I am not worried that your single vote will cause global warming, world hunger, and hyper inflation.

I don't have a vote. Thankfully I'm not a part of that dysfunctional mess that you and your uSAPa buddies have created.

 

[PHXFLYR]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?

They have nothing left to lose except a crappy paying right seat position and retirement as a 30 year F/O. They can get that at any other carrier in the country, and if Airways goes down the tubes they have still lost nothing. No retirement loss, no seniority loss, no monetary loss....nothing. That is why they are fighting so hard and why from what I have seen why they will not relent or vote for anything that keeps then in the same position.

I have something to lose in this as do the other 400 or so that came back and are young enough to see the retirements out and still get to the left seat. The majority of the 3ooo + east guys do not. I lose and the west loses, but they do not.

If we do not come to some agreement that addresses these guys concerns airways is done, period. And telling them that an arbitrator said so is not going to stop them from trying to salvage something out of a 25 year career.

While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

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PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?

They have nothing left to lose except a crappy paying right seat position and retirement as a 30 year F/O. They can get that at any other carrier in the country, and if Airways goes down the tubes they have still lost nothing. No retirement loss, no seniority loss, no monetary loss....nothing. That is why they are fighting so hard and why from what I have seen why they will not relent or vote for anything that keeps then in the same position.

I have something to lose in this as do the other 400 or so that came back and are young enough to see the retirements out and still get to the left seat. The majority of the 3ooo + east guys do not. I lose and the west loses, but they do not.

If we do not come to some agreement that addresses these guys concerns airways is done, period. And telling them that an arbitrator said so is not going to stop them from trying to salvage something out of a 25 year career.

While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

Well.if that's truly the case ,why didn't he go there already? Why tear down what's left of the place and put everyone else out of work along with you . Strange.

PHXFLYR

 

[Deadalus]

Strange is right. They'll be sitting there unemployed thinking, but I have so much experience. Yeah, crying like a baby and ruining a company don't look good on the old resume. Good luck getting a job anywhere else.

 

[coolyokeluke]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?
While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

So why not put that anger to use and instead of fighting the windmill (a binding arbitration ruling) fight like hell for a new contract? Years have already been wasted.