What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[PCL_128]

Pay nothing? Perhaps you think that USAPA has no intention of a fair and equitable resolution.

I think that's a certainty. This whole exercise is nothing but an attempt to rape the West pilots for your own benefit. You make me sick.

 

[TWA Dude]

Why was "operated by US Airways" painted on the 170's?

The answer is obvious: because the MDA division operated on the USAirways FAA certificate. The problem is you're overstating the relevance. Last September the AWA pilots moved over to the USAirways certificate. Did our employer change? No. So at what point would you say we ceased being AWA pilots and started being USAirways pilots? There's no set-in-stone point; it's just a matter of opinion.

As I stated earlier, MDA was operated as a seperate division for the pilots so that's what it was.

 

[waveflyer]

The fact is that no CBA will have any success until "fair and equitable" is achieved.

The difference is that your idea of "fair and equitable" is vastly different from the rest of the industry. In the end- you will only lose. Even if you get what you want- the cost to get it will be so bloody there is no way you could call it a win. good luck w/ that. I hope you end up making the right choice so that all usair pilots can start living a better life.

But think about this: you had negotiating capital this summer that you don't have now. What you've done in this mutiny should be treated a slim hair below "scab". You should all be on a list for doing your part in keeping the whole industry down.

 

[FR8mastr]

The answer is obvious: because the MDA division operated on the USAirways FAA certificate. The problem is you're overstating the relevance. Last September the AWA pilots moved over to the USAirways certificate. Did our employer change? No. So at what point would you say we ceased being AWA pilots and started being USAirways pilots? There's no set-in-stone point; it's just a matter of opinion.

As I stated earlier, MDA was operated as a seperate division for the pilots so that's what it was.

I dont really follow your argument. We agree that the 170's were on the Airways certificate, we agree your employer did not change. But I dont understand how you think the 170 pilots employer did change. They were US airways seniority list pilots in 04, and those that remain are still US Airways seniority list pilots. I dont think I am overstating the relevance of this. It is the crux of the matter.

these pilots were hired by US Airways to fly on the 170's this is fact. The application said US Airways (only) The pria forms were returned to Airways (only) there was no mention anywhere of MDA on any of these items. When Recalled to Airways these pilots had a reduced indoc, IE they had already had the full indoc and did not need the whole thing. Take a guess when they had the full indoc? I'll give you a hint, when they showed up for class at the Airways training center in 04.
Yes it was a division, but it was a division of Airways, with Airways seniority list pilots.

 

[Turtle21]

I think that's a certainty. This whole exercise is nothing but an attempt to rape the West pilots for your own benefit. You make me sick.

It is unfortunate that you feel that way.

 

[Turtle21]

The answer is obvious: because the MDA division operated on the USAirways FAA certificate. The problem is you're overstating the relevance. Last September the AWA pilots moved over to the USAirways certificate. Did our employer change? No. So at what point would you say we ceased being AWA pilots and started being USAirways pilots? There's no set-in-stone point; it's just a matter of opinion.

As I stated earlier, MDA was operated as a seperate division for the pilots so that's what it was.

That's like saying the back of the bus was operated for colored folks, so that's what it was.

 

[MK82Man]

OK, so I’ve read 8 pages of posts since my post on page 1 and I’m continually flabbergasted at the attitude of East pilots.

I admit that I’ve never walked in your shoes or had to endure the hardships that you guys had for the last 10 years. For all of those difficulties you’ve endured, again, I, all the West guys, and all ALPA pilots are truly sorry that those misfortunes occurred – but your sense of “we are entitled to this and are willing to sacrifice the carrier for it” is just amazing. Nobody forced you to stay at the old US Air; many left and sought greener pastures. Lots stayed and hoped for a better day. Now the better day is here, but you want something more than what you could negotiate, and something more than the arbitrator gave you. Now, many of you are willing to throw the reservation agents, the ramp workers, the gate agents, the back office accounting clerks, and 30,000 other jobs in the trash can … folks that can’t even control what is happening … just so you can advance to Captain in front of some West pilot, so that you can economically benefit at the expense of a West Pilot, so that you can enjoy of quality of life (domicile, vacation, bidding preference) at our expense. Why … because you think the course of events was unfair.

Joe Merchant -- you said “it is every man for himself” – wow. I teach my kids about the golden rule … do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We live in a democracy where each must give to support the system. We live by rules and laws and you advocate “screw your buddy.” Great Flame Bait on your part. If not Flame Bait, take some time off and seek some help.

Kerosene -- the reason you don’t hear West guys talking about fences is because the time to talk fences is over. We did negotiation, mediation, and arbitration and the time to negotiate fences was then. You insisted on DOH and now we should be moving forward for a new contract that includes the Nicolau award. But again, the East wants a “do-over.” USAPA wants a “do-over.” What about the growth 757s? What about the guys who’ve benefited from the 190? West pilots have not shared in any of that. East pilots are benefiting from the merger today while the West pilots are held hostage by East’s refusal to participate in contract talks and refusal to accept the Nicolau award … why, so East can advance at the expense of West. Out west we have had guys on Reserve for three years BECAUSE of the merger. We were hiring and stop hiring to support the merger. My tremendous thanks go out to our bottom feeding Reserve FOs who have lived on Reserve for three years so we could recall all your Furloughees and upgrade your guys to Captain, and allow current FOs to switch seats and benefit from the 400+ pilots that have been added to your list since May of 2005 …. All the while our bottom dudes are stuck with nobody underneath them.

Turtle -- I’ve given up on you. I had hoped as an ex Military guy you would be a “rational voice in the crowd” but your failure to answer my previous post questions (old thread) and your attempt to align this with a 1950s racial issue is nuts. As a C-141 pilot and USAF Officer don’t “spin” this issue into a racial discussion. You think we will simply vote for new representation and all cross the bridge together is irrational. Anyone that votes for USAPA is voting to leave the West pilots on the other side of the river and dooming us for years of acidic relationships. You will cross the bridge to alone, sir.

Those folks that say ALPA national is at fault are blame-seekers. You run your LEC and your MEC and because of your abdication of involvement and/or your willingness to allow that leadership to prolong your LOA contract, fight the Nicolau Award, walk away from joint contract talks, and make the push for USAPA, it is your fault, and your fault alone.

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle -- I’ve given up on you. I had hoped as an ex Military guy you would be a “rational voice in the crowd” but your failure to answer my previous post questions (old thread) and your attempt to align this with a 1950s racial issue is nuts. As a C-141 pilot and USAF Officer don’t “spin” this issue into a racial discussion. You think we will simply vote for new representation and all cross the bridge together is irrational. Anyone that votes for USAPA is voting to leave the West pilots on the other side of the river and dooming us for years of acidic relationships. You will cross the bridge to alone, sir.

Given up on me? Then how come you posted to me?:laugh:


This is not a racial issue. Shame on you for suggesting that is my argument.

This whole debacle has happened because Prater and pals have decided that "fair and equitable" has ZERO relevance in a merged seniority list. They have acknowledged that Nic is not reasonable (duh, what gave them that idea?) and yet they have cast their lot with the "way it is, is the way it is."

There were a bunch of people in Mississippi that knew segregation was not "fair and equitable" and yet chose to ignore trying to fix it. The law supported segregation. They were wrong and should have done their part to fix the injustice. No one argues that Nic was fair and equitable. Until a CBA establishes a fair and equitable fix then there won't be one.

This continual effort to blame the East for a "militant DOH" stance that resulted in the Nic award is a tacit admission that the Nic award is not fair and equitable. If it were fair and equitable then there would be no need for blame to be assigned to anyone.

ALPA has failed, admitted they failed, and has chosen to embrace that failure. If USAPA is elected and doesn't find a fair and equitable resolution then they too will have failed. At least they haven't already embraced failure.

But frankly I could care less what anyone thinks about ALPA or USAPA. People should vote for whoever they think has the best Constitution and will actually follow it.

I can tell you I am already convinced, so you should give up on me.:laugh:

Oh, and one last point. No Easthole has any desire to leave the West pilots on the other side of the river. But I can't say the same thing regarding their intentions for Prater and his pals.

 

[PCL_128]

People should vote for whoever they think has the best Constitution and will actually follow it.

There's a lot more to a union than its constitution and bylaws. If that's all you're making your decision on, then you've got a lot to learn.

 

[Turtle21]

There's a lot more to a union than its constitution and bylaws. If that's all you're making your decision on, then you've got a lot to learn.

What's your obsession with my vote?