What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[Guppiedriver]

I think this might go unanswered too, but what the hell.

If USAPA prevails, how long will it survive? I know for a fact that not one AWA pilot will pay dues to USAPA, so I wonder how long it can survive without 35% of it membership paying. Will the Easties cover our dues to keep USAPA afloat?

Don't tell me the company will fire me for not paying dues either. I can go many months without paying ALPA dues before the company gets involved. Besides that, the company can't simultaneously fire 1800 pilots.

If USAPA goes bankrupt, what then? Will we be "at will" employees at that point? Will our CBA's survive?

 

[Redmeat]

If USAPA goes bankrupt, what then?

You will be looking for a job.

 

[waveflyer]

East guys may not be scabs- but they are close. They're the major airline version of VA and skybus and Go-Jets/Freedom...

To give up getting rid of their bottom of the barrell wages b/c they don't understand what seniority is .... is awful= this industry needed you to step up last summer and hammer a deal out... now this mess... USAir isn't heading into bk-= but a lot of pilots are struggling... guess that's ok to you....

 

[Fast43]

I think this might go unanswered too, but what the hell.

If USAPA prevails, how long will it survive? I know for a fact that not one AWA pilot will pay dues to USAPA, so I wonder how long it can survive without 35% of it membership paying. Will the Easties cover our dues to keep USAPA afloat?

Don't tell me the company will fire me for not paying dues either. I can go many months without paying ALPA dues before the company gets involved. Besides that, the company can't simultaneously fire 1800 pilots.

If USAPA goes bankrupt, what then? Will we be "at will" employees at that point? Will our CBA's survive?

Actually out of 1800 guys we are gonna draw straws to see which 5 guys will pay dues. So when the usapa bin ladens try and change the list that they already agreed to, they can be sued for failing to fairly represent them. Then they can defend them selves with 35% less dues money.

Fast

 

[ferlo]

East guys may not be scabs- but they are close. They're the major airline version of VA and skybus and Go-Jets/Freedom...

To give up getting rid of their bottom of the barrell wages b/c they don't understand what seniority is .... is awful= this industry needed you to step up last summer and hammer a deal out... now this mess... USAir isn't heading into bk-= but a lot of pilots are struggling... guess that's ok to you....

Webster defines a scab as"

3 a: a contemptible person
b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union

(2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended

(3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike

(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms


USAPA will work for BK wages forever just to spite the nic award. Option 4 fits like a glove as far as I'm concerned. A vote for USAPA is signing a scab card.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PCL, Mclain was voted out after he sold us down the river. We fly airplanes and PAY people to take care of our negotiations in OUR best interests.

Unfortunately we don't find out that they suck (or have a hidden agenda , age 65 for example) at that particular job until after the damage is done (ala NW BK aftermath).

USAPA is backing into this deal and aren't relying on managements rhetoric. They understand the situation and have decided what they are willing to do. I think that there are a lot of Bush generation pilots in ALPA out there that think that they are powerless.

There it is again... that pesky democracy of self government! How inconvienent! American Idol is on and you want ME to get involved with MY career!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You're right. A much needed reality check thanks.

flygirlqt-

I never got answers to some questions asked of you...maybe I missed them....


When did you decide to become an Airline Pilot?

When you applied to your airline was ALPA representing the pilots at that airline?

What airline do you work for?

Its possible that your Dad is a East pilot. True?

 

[jke406]

Let's say there is a group of five people. Four of them are men, and one is a woman. The group takes a vote. All four men vote in favor of raping the woman. The woman, of course, votes against it. Is this a fair outcome simply because the majority voted in favor? This is essentially what's going on at USAirways. The majority on the East is voting in favor of raping the minority on the West. The courts will eventually determine that what you're trying to do is a breach of DFR, and the new "union" will be bankrupt.

you can't be serious.

you and your fellow ALPA nazis have completely lost touch with reality if you think that's an appropriate analogy.

Idiots like you and Rez O. Lenin are the reason so many pilots detest ALPA and everything it stands for.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA is like an abusive husband being removed from the house... as he is being pushed through the door, he braces himself with both hands and feet against the door jam and make one last plea... "If you don't let me stay, I'll send some one who will beat you worse than I do!"

no...USAPA is a niave teenager running away from home thinking they can make it on thier own....

Said teenager as never had a job, responsibility, dropped out of school, etc.... just enough to be stupid....





USAPA guys.... run to your island in the atlantic ocean. You can set up your tiki hut and be smug that you shucked ALPA.... but then you'll be so far away and diconnected from the rest of the world, you'll have to reconnect somehow....

Changing your logo won't change your problems. Which is: self government, responsible deomocracy, active particaption.

 

[flygirlqt]

flygirlqt-

I never got answers to some questions asked of you...maybe I missed them....


When did you decide to become an Airline Pilot?

When you applied to your airline was ALPA representing the pilots at that airline?

What airline do you work for?

Its possible that your Dad is a East pilot. True?

When my corporate job was looking shaky

No

The one that is going to staple United to the bottom of our list. Just a joke fellas, keep your g strings straight.

rEAL then retired. He went back to his law practice full time.

You REZ? Work, ALPA background and I'll take an answer about those National pay scales I posted some time back to your response that my information was false.

Funny thing about my Dad. Today, if you had him and a scab in the same room, they would be talking about the same bitter complaints about ALPA.

 

[Doug Parker]

.



I just want to know if the East has deactivated the Critical Incident Response Team yet ????

You do remember that they activated it when Nicolau was published?




.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

When my corporate job was looking shaky

No



The one that is going to staple United to the bottom of our list. Just a joke fellas, keep your g strings straight.

So you'd rather be independent? Did you vote to keep ALPA out?

You REZ? Work, ALPA background and I'll take an answer about those National pay scales I posted some time back to your response that my information was false.

Fourth ALPA carrier. volunteered at every carrier.


You insist of believing that ALPA National salaries, really only the President, are the source of your misery. I told you Prater said he would accpet the comp-package the BOD provided..whatever it was.. you disagree.

The Prez comp package is voted on via democracy. You think there is backroom deals...

We agree to disagree...

Do you have issue with the three VPs salaries?

Funny thing about my Dad. Today, if you had him and a scab in the same room, they would be talking about the same bitter complaints about ALPA.

Funny.... they probably would never mention Frankie Smooth Talk.... or GWHB..... why is that?

 

[JoeMerchant]

You insist of believing that ALPA National salaries, really only the President, are the source of your misery. I told you Prater said he would accpet the comp-package the BOD provided..whatever it was.. you disagree.

The Prez comp package is voted on via democracy. You think there is backroom deals...

Point of information:

Prior to the 2002 BOD, the ALPA Presidents salary was calculated based on the highest 6 ALPA carriers....After 911, the 2002 BOD changed the formula to the highest 3 ALPA carriers because of paycuts....and as of yet Delta and NWA hadn't taken them yet.....Along with Fedex, it was possible to keep the salary high by using the 3 highest, rather than the 6 highest.....

One of the BOD members on the compensation committee was HH from America West.....He was opposed to changing this formula, and he eventually lost his position because he didn't play political "ball".....

Back room deals are political realities.....and ALPA is very political.....

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle,

Unbelievable. Your posts are so hypocritical ...

How so?!

I notice that the NMB has a process that we all are following. And ya know I believe in "process".

I find that when a disinterested third party offers their unbiased process, the end result is always a fair and equitable resolution.

I know, I know, there are always some irrational fringe groups that try to stir the pot but in the end cooler heads prevail and make a process work out for everyone's best.

The pendulum always gravitates to the center.

Silly Lucy... She thought that she would always have Charlie Brown around to play football.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

, and he eventually lost his position because he didn't play political "ball".....
.....

elaborate

 

[steveg]

Not to interupt all of you but............

I just want to point out, all this usapa crap is not about ALPA. usapa just wants to screw the AWA pilots. Period.

They are just guising it in all this ALPA crap to cover the true motives, and you guys are helping them by debating all the particulars.

I repeat, this is not about ALPA. It's simply about screwing the AWA pilots to cover the sense of entitlement the usair pilots have.

 

[JoeMerchant]

elaborate

.....in his own words......

Back in 2002, when I was AWA MEC Chairman, I was automatically a member of the ALPA SCRC (Special Compensation Review Committee) that sets allowances and other disbursement rates for the National officers. The other members of the committee, the MEC Chairmen from ACJazz, COMAIR and DAL, elected me chairman of the committee.

In mid May 2002, we were handed an already written series of ALPA Constitutional amendments that would have dramatically increased the special compensation of all the National officers, Woerth and Attarian. We did not know about the Matt Kernan deal. The package was given to us by ALPA General Manager, Jalmar "$400,000/yr salary" Johnson.

The four of us read and collectively rolled our eyes. It called for an increase of allowances from $96,100 to $125,200. And it codified the "Jerry Mugerditchian Rule," which allowed Matt Kernan to become the highest paid regional turboprop pilot in the world (total compensation package at about $200,000).

We were all aghast and spent a considerable amount of our time just reducing the increases. But I was recalled (with ALPA monitoring the recall meeting with two ALPA VPs and the two top ALPA attorneys) less than 10 days before the 2002 BOD. That's a long and sordid story in itself.

And to make a long story short, once I was ousted and not allowed to make the presentation of the SCRC at the BOD, somehow the SCRC proposal that came out of committee reverted to approximately what Jalmar Johnson presented to us five months earlier. I doubt if a single BOD member had a clue what he/she was voting on.

And so it goes.

xxxx xxxxxxx
AWA


Comments?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms


USAPA will work for BK wages forever just to spite the nic award. Option 4 fits like a glove as far as I'm concerned. A vote for USAPA is signing a scab card.

Maybe an "East" pilot can chime in here...but the wages they are working for today...are in fact, union wages...negotiated by ALPA.

 

[CEO silly sap]

I was listening to a PSA pilot rage on how alpa did this and Alpa did that. But when asked why he allowed his LEC rep to do that, he responded "I didnt vote for him as a matter of fact only 23 votes out of a possible 400 were cast for him." He continued, " But you will see, cause the day after the Nick Decision over 2000 pilots submitted cards to remove alpa from the propert"... As I looked on in amazment I had to ask, Hey imagine what kind of progress and pension you would have had if you and the other 1999 pilots decided to participate in their union.. Rest assured USAPA wont get you what you need or want because the USAir pilots will continue to stand by and watch their careers pass by.

As a matter of fact, SO WILL MOST OF THE OTHER AIRLINE PILOTS..

Get off your butts and get in the game.

 

[trainer8]

Webster defines a scab as"

3 a: a contemptible person
b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union

(2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended

(3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike

(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms


USAPA will work for BK wages forever just to spite the nic award. Option 4 fits like a glove as far as I'm concerned. A vote for USAPA is signing a scab card.

You speak of Unionism as the utopia of aviation labor. a benchmark of what all should strive for. If that is ALPA, it misses the mark. USAPA may not be perfect, but is sure focuses on the right thing, the pilot, not the organization.