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What has ALPA done for me lately?

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I need to get more involved??? Do you know me? Also, I never blamed leadership. I just put forth an idea and thought someone could comment on the worthiness of it. Then along comes magnanimous you. I see what you are trying to do but you are doing a very poor job of it. Don't attack everyone as being lazy and not volunteering. Your holier-than-thou attitude is getting a little over the top and is becoming counter-productive. Just like Joe Merchant. I just got off probation and am on my first committee. Rest assured I will look into my idea...I don't need you here lecturing me (on something you know nothing about).
So, what are your ideas Rez? All I hear from you is how much we all suck and need to do more.
Relax. Rez is so used to the nimrods around here that don't do anything other than bit-- and whine that he probably just assumed that you were yet another one of them. Thanks for your service on an ALPA committee.

As for your idea, I agree that it would be wonderful to fix the RLA, but you have to think of this from the perspective of political strategy. What is the current environment in Washington? Who is in the White House? Are there any bad elements in Congress that could cause this to backfire on us? These are important things to consider when you start thinking about modifying or completely replacing the entire system that governs our bargaining ability. Things to consider:

1. With such slim Democratic majorities in the House and Senate, passing any sort of legislation that would be in favor of labor would be just about impossible. The more likely outcome would be a huge compromise bill that could inadvertently make things much worse. If we wait until the next session of Congress, we could end up with much bigger majorities that would make things much more favorable to our cause.

2. The President that is currently in the White House will never sign any legislation that puts more power into the hands of the labor movement. We could waste countless money and resources to get a bill pushed through Congress, only to have the President veto it. And with such slim majorities in the Congress, a veto override is an impossibility.

3. About five or six years ago, there actually was a bill being discussed on the Hill about modifying the RLA. The bill was called McCain-Lott. The basic idea of the bill was "baseball-style arbitration." In other words, the two parties would negotiate for a set period of time, and if they couldn't come to an agreement, both sides would submit their "last, best offer" to an arbitrator who would just pick one of the offers. The arbitrator's pick would be binding. This obviously would have been devastating to labor. The right to strike (our only leverage) would have been officially outlawed. Thanks to ALPA's hard work, we managed to kill this godforsaken bill. But Senator McCain is still in the Senate, and he's still holding on to this idea. If we start pushing for changes to the RLA, you can bet that he'll dredge up this monstrosity. With such slim Democratic majorities, he just might be able to push such a thing through. Better to wait until the pro-labor forces are larger on the Hill.

P.S. Any pilot who's thinking about voting for John McCain needs to have his head examined. This man is the most anti-pilot politician you could ever imagine.
 
Joe, the mainline pilots are just mad because now they're going to have to face the same competition and downward pressure of wage we have been facing for years here in the regionals. Poor babies.

They created this mess with ineffective exclusive scope. Now they reap the reward as Asian, Latin, and European pilots raid their hubs. If they had brought the industry together 10 years ago, when certain airlines filed a PID, we could be fighting a united front. But now, the industry is so fractured, nobody, especially ALPA, can put up any real resistance to the tidal wave of cheap airline labor approaching our shores. We are the next shipping industry and ALPA is fiddling while Rome burns.

Exacty.....The ironic thing is there are ASA pilots trying to get on with Indian carriers.....Anyone else see the irony there when Rez. is trying to get us all worked up over foreign ownership..... Pssstt.....in many cases they pay more.......

Rez. is playing 3 Card Monty.....and most aren't falling for it......
 
Thanks for the update, ualdriver. Always good to see that ALPA continues to do the work of profession, even when the members are a bunch of apathetic whiners.

This very thread counters your argument here.....So ALPA can improve things even though the membership is apathetic......Why is it credit goes to ALPA for the victories, and blame goes to the membership for the losses......

Any chance some of the apathy stems from people getting tired of all the blame while the National structure takes all the credit....

You and Rez can't have it both ways.....Either ALPA gets the credit and the blame, or they get neither the blame or the credit.....
 
P.S. Any pilot who's thinking about voting for John McCain needs to have his head examined. This man is the most anti-pilot politician you could ever imagine.

I agree. He also has other baggage that the Dems and media will use against him - "the Keating Five" should he get the nod.

He created that POS legislation McCain-Feingold (sp?) which basically favors big business and lobbyists but screws the common person.

I do disagree though that any POTUS really cares about pilots or labor in general. It is ironic that people distrust management but trust politicians. Think they are of the same cloth.
 
I have been an ALPA member over 4 years now and remain so only because I have to be or I lose my job. Thus, since my union dues are basically extorted from me, I expect that those whom I pay to represent me would do it well

El Pobre-

Just out of curiosity:

1) Which airline do you fly for?
2) If you have such a low opinion of ALPA and feel that your dues are being extorted from you, what steps are you personally taking to work for a non-ALPA airline?
3) Why did you choose to work for an ALPA airline in the first place?
 
This very thread counters your argument here.....So ALPA can improve things even though the membership is apathetic......Why is it credit goes to ALPA for the victories, and blame goes to the membership for the losses......
ALPA is sometimes able to achieve victories in spite of the apathetic membership. Victories would be far more common if the membership would take ownership of their careers.
 
ALPA is sometimes able to achieve victories in spite of the apathetic membership. Victories would be far more common if the membership would take ownership of their careers.

ALPA cheerleader translation:

When ALPA achieves a victory it's because ALPA is a far superior organization that "achieves victories in spite of the apathetic membership"......

When ALPA loses, it all the fault of the "membership"...

Any wonder the boss (membership) is getting tired and more apathetic.....
 
I do disagree though that any POTUS really cares about pilots or labor in general. It is ironic that people distrust management but trust politicians. Think they are of the same cloth.
It's not a matter of trusting them; it's a matter of playing the political game. Big business buys their politicians, and labor/lawyers/etc... buy theirs. Guys like McCain and Guiliani have been bought by the people that oppose our interests. You have a choice of whether to vote for the people that have been bought off by the Air Transport Association, or people that have been bought by labor. My votes are going to the latter. Do I really think that Obama cares about me or anyone else in the labor movement? I really don't know. It's possible, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that he'll support us because he counts on us for campaign contributions and votes to stay in power. It's just all part of playing the game.
 
Joe, the mainline pilots are just mad because now they're going to have to face the same competition and downward pressure of wage we have been facing for years here in the regionals. Poor babies.

They created this mess with ineffective exclusive scope. Now they reap the reward as Asian, Latin, and European pilots raid their hubs. If they had brought the industry together 10 years ago, when certain airlines filed a PID, we could be fighting a united front. But now, the industry is so fractured, nobody, especially ALPA, can put up any real resistance to the tidal wave of cheap airline labor approaching our shores. We are the next shipping industry and ALPA is fiddling while Rome burns.

I agree that the mainline guys created a mess with what is happening with the ALPA RJ operators right now.

I think comparing cabotage to the RJ whipsaw is apples and oranges. When worldwide pilot supply catches up with demand in the up and coming years, I'd be far more concerned about some third world pilot coming to the U.S. and flying as a 70 seat RJ Captain (for example) for 20K/year than Comair and ASA fighting over Delta flying. Or I'd be more concerned about an airline operating in the U.S. under some sort of "flag of convenience" (with all associated labor laws concerning that flag) then TransStates and Mesa fighting over a United contract.

Both issues certainly important and need to be addressed, but to imply that the mainline guys are "poor babies" just because we might have to face cabotage is way off base. Maybe you were kidding?
 
I agree. He also has other baggage that the Dems and media will use against him - "the Keating Five" should he get the nod. Not that I'm a McCain fan but, do you really think people will care about an S&L scandal from the 1980's? Bet you could dig up more dirt on the Clintons then on McCain.

He created that POS legislation McCain-Feingold (sp?) which basically favors big business and lobbyists but screws the common person. Unfortunately this bad legislation will be used to show he can work across the aisle. Typical voters will see this as the moderate they want in office instead of a divider like "Hell"ary.
.

I'd rather see Obama then a dual Pres. Even though I disagree with just about everything he says, she(Bill included) is pure evil!
 
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3. About five or six years ago, there actually was a bill being discussed on the Hill about modifying the RLA. The bill was called McCain-Lott. The basic idea of the bill was "baseball-style arbitration." In other words, the two parties would negotiate for a set period of time, and if they couldn't come to an agreement, both sides would submit their "last, best offer" to an arbitrator who would just pick one of the offers. The arbitrator's pick would be binding. This obviously would have been devastating to labor. The right to strike (our only leverage) would have been officially outlawed. Thanks to ALPA's hard work, we managed to kill this godforsaken bill. But Senator McCain is still in the Senate, and he's still holding on to this idea. If we start pushing for changes to the RLA, you can bet that he'll dredge up this monstrosity. With such slim Democratic majorities, he just might be able to push such a thing through. Better to wait until the pro-labor forces are larger on the Hill.

P.S. Any pilot who's thinking about voting for John McCain needs to have his head examined. This man is the most anti-pilot politician you could ever imagine.

And btw, McCain seems to have emerged as the Republican front runner. If he gets the nomination, I wonder how many airline pilots will vote Republican and shoot us all in the foot. I'll bet most. Airline pilots are stupid when it comes to politics. They vote with the heart, not the head or wallet. And certainly not the union card. You're wasting your time trying to convince them.
 
ALPA cheerleader translation:

When ALPA achieves a victory it's because ALPA is a far superior organization that "achieves victories in spite of the apathetic membership"......

When ALPA loses, it all the fault of the "membership"...

Any wonder the boss (membership) is getting tired and more apathetic.....

Joe, we're just stupid. All line pilots are. If we only saw the big picture like the ALPA reps do, then we'd understand. We should just trust them. :rolleyes:
 
It's not a matter of trusting them; it's a matter of playing the political game. Big business buys their politicians, and labor/lawyers/etc... buy theirs. Guys like McCain and Guiliani have been bought by the people that oppose our interests. You have a choice of whether to vote for the people that have been bought off by the Air Transport Association, or people that have been bought by labor. My votes are going to the latter. Do I really think that Obama cares about me or anyone else in the labor movement? I really don't know. It's possible, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that he'll support us because he counts on us for campaign contributions and votes to stay in power. It's just all part of playing the game.

And you don't think Obama has been bought? Hello, the BLACK LOBBY? Al Sharpton? Jesse Jackson? The man came to Atlanta on MLK day and said he would put a civil rights observer in every district to ensure "no black person gets harsher treatment than a white person". Translation: "we're gonna make the white man pay, just like we have all these years". Scary stuff. If Obama gets elected, we may be heading to a reverse apartheid. As a big fan of labor, I can't believe you aren't supporting Edwards. He is the true blue collar champion.
 
And btw, McCain seems to have emerged as the Republican front runner. If he gets the nomination, I wonder how many airline pilots will vote Republican and shoot us all in the foot. I'll bet most. Airline pilots are stupid when it comes to politics. They vote with the heart, not the head or wallet. And certainly not the union card. You're wasting your time trying to convince them.

Actually we do vote with our wallet.....The Dems. want to take more from our wallets than the Republicans do.....

According to the Dems, I am a "rich" person and my taxes need to go up....Sorry that's not good for my wallet.....

The harm to my wallet goes up if Hillary or Obama get in....
 
I agree that the mainline guys created a mess with what is happening with the ALPA RJ operators right now.

I think comparing cabotage to the RJ whipsaw is apples and oranges. When worldwide pilot supply catches up with demand in the up and coming years, I'd be far more concerned about some third world pilot coming to the U.S. and flying as a 70 seat RJ Captain (for example) for 20K/year than Comair and ASA fighting over Delta flying. Or I'd be more concerned about an airline operating in the U.S. under some sort of "flag of convenience" (with all associated labor laws concerning that flag) then TransStates and Mesa fighting over a United contract.

Both issues certainly important and need to be addressed, but to imply that the mainline guys are "poor babies" just because we might have to face cabotage is way off base. Maybe you were kidding?

I disagree. I think you're compartmentalizing the issue to make it seem like cabotage and "flags of convenience" is only a mainline problem. That's pretty arrogant. Your attitude of how our problems and fate are not tied together highlights the problem.

It's a problem for all of us, and if we don't stop this double standard of two ALPAs we are going to get steamrolled.

Oh, and did you "back the PAC" yet this year? Everyone needs to.
 

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