What has ALPA done for me lately?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I certainly hope ALPA's days are numbered. Soon, I believe the membership will be mostly regional pilots and the organization will be increasingly irrelevant to major airline pilots.

Prater's mishandling of age 60 and the U merger have shed a lot of light on why it's bad for airline pilots to have a union which is tied to other airlines. Might work well for people building cars....maybe....but it's certainly not helping airline pilots.

ALPO: R.I.P.

What do you suggest?

 

[pylut]

I suggest alpa dies.

 

[pylut]

Hopefully the TWA lawsuit will help to accomplish this.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hopefully the TWA lawsuit will help to accomplish this.

Just ALPA? What about the APA and AMR?

 

[PCL_128]

Hopefully the TWA lawsuit will help to accomplish this.

The TWA lawsuit will go down in flames just like the RJDC lawsuit. And rightfully so.

 

[737 Pylt]

Hopefully the TWA lawsuit will help to accomplish this.

Kind of like the rjdc lawsuit?

737

 

[pylut]

Just ALPA? What about the APA and AMR?

The lawsuit is ongoing with alpa, not apa or amr.
course you already knew that, did you not?

 

[pylut]

The TWA lawsuit will go down in flames just like the RJDC lawsuit. And rightfully so.

perhaps...then a great wrong will not have been righted. I hope that is not the case.

Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.

 

[BeCareful!]

Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.

That is by and large the most truthful, accurate thing posted on FI.com in ages! Bravo!

Rez O, what I suggest is that ALPA officers of all grades start thinking about what they are going to do when the ALPA gravy train dries up. That's going to start with the removal of about $11,000,000 from the annual budget. Then, and more to the point, I suggest pilots at all airlines roll up their sleeves and begin the hard work of forming independent unions that are purpose-built to represent the pilots who pay for their services. (This is something that is clearly NOT happening anymore with ALPA.)

Dave Behnke (sp?) had a great idea, and ALPA has historically done a lot of good things. Everything runs its course, though, and that time has come.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

perhaps...then a great wrong will not have been righted. I hope that is not the case.

It was my understanding that the TWA suers also named AMR and APA. Do you have a link? or a reference?

Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.

It ignores the desires? What are those desires? cause when I was an ALPA rep I constantly asked my consituients what they wanted and got nothing.

LEC election particaption rates 30%
LEC meeting attendence rates 5%
Age 60 survey particaption 30%

The fact is pilots are extremely apathetic. As citizens of the greatest democratic society in the world, pilots are dismal failures... but don't worry most Americans are like this... pilots are nothing special...

That is by and large the most truthful, accurate thing posted on FI.com in ages! Bravo!

It is actually a quite common post.. respectfully it is ignorant and pessimistic..counter productive and self deafting...

Rez O, what I suggest is that ALPA officers of all grades start thinking about what they are going to do when the ALPA gravy train dries up.

What I suggest is pilots stop whining like school girls and man up. Find some character and integrity and actually become involved in thier careers. Most pilots don't even have the decency to take the ALPA tit out of thier mouth as they complain...

Pilots refuse to particapte in the political process that controls thier carriers yet they have so much time and energy to complain....

That's going to start with the removal of about $11,000,000 from the annual budget.

Funny stuff...

Then, and more to the point, I suggest pilots at all airlines roll up their sleeves and begin the hard work of forming independent unions that are purpose-built to represent the pilots who pay for their services. (This is something that is clearly NOT happening anymore with ALPA.)

More funny stuff... and I will tell you why... apathy. Pilots do not have the ability and organizational skills to get this done... Or instead of put a little energy into thier careers over the years.. they go apathetic and then cry wolf when thier expectations (that they never communicate) aren't met... Now..you got pilots going postal and ready to do massive changes..all while if they just gave a litle bit over the years it would never come to this...

In addition we need more unity not a bunch of Iraqi-like war tribes all fighting it out.

You just don't get it. ALPA is not regulatory. The laws favor management and gov't NOT unions.. so in order to get things done we must have strength in numbers....

The reason why ALPA is not as effective is because of guys like you, Joe Merchant, luckytohaveajob, A350, etc.. you get on the message boards and spread your discontent and pessimism.... how can we progress if guys are sandbagging.. We agree with the problems and we are trying to fix them...but you are not helping!!

Instead..why not get involved! Once you sit down and look at the problem and realize there are smart people trying to effect positive change it changes your whole prospective... IN OTHER WORDS.. once you understand it makes it allot easier to accept..

Also, ALPA pilots most often look at the problem form their own intrests. It doesn't work that way... we can duke it out behind closed doors, but sooner or later we need to come out unified as a team. Not 60,000 teams... but one.

Dave Behnke (sp?) had a great idea, and ALPA has historically done a lot of good things. Everything runs its course, though, and that time has come.

all you are doing is recalling your own innocent and idealistic hopes for your airline career.. that ALPA was going tomake everything great like the good ol' days... Not much has really changed.. certianly not human nature... Check this out... pilot apathy was alive and well in the 1950's...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227:

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline.

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.
​

And guys will get on here are argue my point.. but they will never really say that apathy is good. And that non particaption is the way to go...

They will argue everything that they cannot control.. they don't want to talk about thier repsonsibilities.. oh no... because if they did then they would actually have to TAKE responsibility...

Nope.. guys just want to pay thier 1.95% and go about thier lives and keep living unrealisitc expectations... nothing new here... move along... nothing to see...

 

[PinnacleDude]

Rez,

That is an excellent post.

PDude

 

[BeCareful!]

I guess in your world, Rez, every pilot would be an ALPA volunteer of some sort, eh? Everyone would show up at every meeting, etc. And you accuse me of writing funny stuff.

You've done the typical Internet thing and assumed far too much about others by reading too much into a post. I've been far more involved with ALPA than the average line pilot over the years....not at all the apathetic pilot you describe. You say I "just don't get it." What an arrogant little quip that is. Eff You! You have no idea.

It's because of what I've witnessed over the past 16 years that I'm taking a role in trying to rid my airline of ALPA! And rhetoric like yours only fuels my fire. Keep it up; maybe you should contact Prater for some tips on how to drive pilots away from ALPA. In all honesty, he's a little better at it than you are.

 

[pylut]

It was my understanding that the TWA suers also named AMR and APA. Do you have a link? or a reference?

The ongoing TWA-alpa lawsuit is just alpa.
Ask your buddies in the alpa klan about the status. Course they might be too busy shredding boxes of evidence they were required to present....the judge loved that one.

It ignores the desires? What are those desires? cause when I was an ALPA rep I constantly asked my consituients what they wanted and got nothing.

LEC election particaption rates 30%
LEC meeting attendence rates 5%
Age 60 survey particaption 30%

Why would more want to participate. what did alpo do with the opinions of the 30% that participated in the age 60 survey? Threw their opinions right out the window. But we want more participation right? ya that's the way to promote that. How many of those 30% do you think will be inclined to participate next time?

The fact is pilots are extremely apathetic. As citizens of the greatest democratic society in the world, pilots are dismal failures... but don't worry most Americans are like this... pilots are nothing special...

That pretty much sums you up....you are alpa


It is actually a quite common post.. respectfully it is ignorant and pessimistic..counter productive and self deafting...



What I suggest is pilots stop whining like school girls and man up. Find some character and integrity and actually become involved in thier careers. Most pilots don't even have the decency to take the ALPA tit out of thier mouth as they complain...

Pilots refuse to particapte in the political process that controls thier carriers yet they have so much time and energy to complain....




Funny stuff...




More funny stuff... and I will tell you why... apathy. Pilots do not have the ability and organizational skills to get this done... Or instead of put a little energy into thier careers over the years.. they go apathetic and then cry wolf when thier expectations (that they never communicate) aren't met... Now..you got pilots going postal and ready to do massive changes..all while if they just gave a litle bit over the years it would never come to this...

In addition we need more unity not a bunch of Iraqi-like war tribes all fighting it out.

You just don't get it. ALPA is not regulatory. The laws favor management and gov't NOT unions.. so in order to get things done we must have strength in numbers....

The reason why ALPA is not as effective is because of guys like you, Joe Merchant, luckytohaveajob, A350, etc.. you get on the message boards and spread your discontent and pessimism.... how can we progress if guys are sandbagging.. We agree with the problems and we are trying to fix them...but you are not helping!!

Instead..why not get involved! Once you sit down and look at the problem and realize there are smart people trying to effect positive change it changes your whole prospective... IN OTHER WORDS.. once you understand it makes it allot easier to accept..

Also, ALPA pilots most often look at the problem form their own intrests. It doesn't work that way... we can duke it out behind closed doors, but sooner or later we need to come out unified as a team. Not 60,000 teams... but one.

I agree, alpa has run it's course. Time for a new oranization to step forward and succeed. The sooner alpa finishes it's death throes the better. alpo has become more concerned with preserving it's own organization then representing it's constituents.

all you are doing is recalling your own innocent and idealistic hopes for your airline career.. that ALPA was going tomake everything great like the good ol' days... Not much has really changed.. certianly not human nature... Check this out... pilot apathy was alive and well in the 1950's...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227: ​

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline. ​

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.​

And guys will get on here are argue my point.. but they will never really say that apathy is good. And that non particaption is the way to go...
Non participation is the way to go! I will never participate in the alpo facade. Having viewed the corruption 1st hand in the treatment of the TWA pilots I could never respect or belong to such a putrid bureaucracy.
They will argue everything that they cannot control.. they don't want to talk about thier repsonsibilities.. oh no... because if they did then they would actually have to TAKE responsibility...

Nope.. guys just want to pay thier 1.95% and go about thier lives and keep living unrealisitc expectations... nothing new here... move along... nothing to see...

There was a time when alpa had a positive impact and honor. That time has long passed. The sooner it dies the better. Get involved you say? I AM. I am personally supporting efforts which I hope will at least financially weaken this sad excuse for a union.

When faced with a chance to do the right thing by the TWA pilots alpo chose instead to actively recruit the apa members rather than represent the interests of their longstanding members. why? simple, $

 

[ironspud]

The TWA lawsuit will go down in flames just like the RJDC lawsuit. And rightfully so.

.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The ongoing TWA-alpa lawsuit is just alpa.
Ask your buddies in the alpa klan about the status. Course they might be too busy shredding boxes of evidence they were required to present....the judge loved that one.

Need references.. the personal opinoon of a jaded member is interesting....but...

What is the basis of the TWA lawsuit?

Here is a doc showing TWA pilots sueing the APA
http://twapilots-vs-alpa.com/downloads/twapilotstranscriptordertoshow020905.pdf

and another showing TWA pilots sueing the APA, ALPA adn AMR IN THAT ORDER..

Why would more want to participate. what did alpo do with the opinions of the 30% that participated in the age 60 survey? Threw their opinions right out the window. But we want more participation right? ya that's the way to promote that. How many of those 30% do you think will be inclined to participate next time?

That is it.... refuse to particapte...pack up your marbles and go home.. that is the American way...

That pretty much somes you up....you are alpa

You..me..us.. them...

I agree, alpa has run it's course. Time for a new oranization to step forward and succeed. The sooner alpa finishes it's death throes the better. alpo has become more concerned with preserving it's own organization then representing it's constituents.

sounds like you are calling for revolution.. a coup perhaps... just sit back and relax... we'll call you when its over.. all while ensuring that all the changes meet your individualized and custom needs...

Non participation is the way to go! I will never participate in the alpo facade. Having viewed the corruption 1st hand in the treatment of the TWA pilots I could never respect or belong to such a putrid bureaucracy.

You have to respect yourself before you can respect anyone or thing...

There was a time when alpa had a positive impact and honor. That time has long passed.

When was that? can you provide a time frame? And what did ALPA do specifically for that honor?

The sooner it dies the better. Get involved you say? I AM. I am personally supporting efforts which I hope will at least financially weaken this sad excuse for a union.

First you say don't particapte then you say you are involved...

When faced with a chance to do the right thing by the TWA pilots alpo chose instead to actively recruit the apa members rather than represent the interests of their longstanding members. why? simple, $

Don't forget the APA and AMR....