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What has ALPA done for me lately?

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ualdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Posts
1,400
Just some more examples of the influence ALPA and ALPA-PAC have on the lives of airline pilots. We don't always win every battle, nor will we necessarily win all of these, but at least we can push some things in our favor.

The following is an update of current issues, however, we encourage you to continue to visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org, read your Air Line Pilot magazine and other ALPA mailings for information on issues that impact our profession and our industry.

FAA Administrator

Acting FAA Administrator Robert Sturgell has been nominated by President Bush for the top FAA spot. Mr. Sturgell is a lawyer and former official of the NTSB. He has been deputy FAA administrator since 2003 and is slated to replace Marion Blakey, who has accepted a position as chief executive for the Aerospace Industries Association, a defense industry lobby group. Mr. Sturgell was a line pilot for UAL prior to working for the NTSB. UAL Captain Hank Krakowski recently accepted the position of chief operations officer for air traffic at the FAA.


FFDO and Secondary Barriers

Captain Bob Hesselbein, ALPA National Security chairman, testified before the House Subcommittee on Transportation Security and Infrastructure Protection. The subcommittee is part of the House Homeland Security Committee. Captain Hesselbein testified on improvements to the FFDO program and the need for legislation providing requirement of the secondary barrier on all commercial airline aircraft. Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), with the assistance of UAL-MEC Security Committee Chairman Captain Ed Folsom, introduced legislation requiring secondary barriers. For more on this issue visit, www.alpa.org in the members only section.


CrewPASS (airport access)
The TSA is required, by law, to provide flight crewmembers access through airport security checkpoints within 18 months from the bill signing date of August 3, 2007. We should expect to have this procedure implemented no later than February 3, 2009. For more information, click here.

Multicrew Pilot’s License

In 2000, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) conceived the Multicrew Pilots License (MPL). It is designed to train co-pilots to function immediately as flight crewmembers. It heavily relies on simulators to train zero-time students to function on specific aircraft in air carrier operations. The FAA has not approved the use of MPL. China will use the program. Lufthansa has announced it will explore using the MPL program as well. ALPA will address this issue at its May 2008 Executive Board meeting.

Overseas Aircraft Maintenance

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) wants legislation that would mandate the FAA to oversee foreign aircraft maintenance facilities that are working on U.S. airline aircraft. “We don’t know who’s under the hood of the airplanes we are flying,” she said. “If it is in fact experienced labor union workers who are doing it, great. But I believe the public wants to pay what it takes to make sure we can fly safely.”

Pension Reform Legislation

Earlier this month, at ALPA’s urging, legislation was introduced that would close loopholes that enabled management to gut workers’ contracts during tough economic times. This legislation would also put employees and retirees on equal footing with businesses and banks when companies file for bankruptcy. The “Protecting Employees and Retirees in Business Bankruptcies Act of 2007,” introduced by Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), promotes economic fairness and requires true shared sacrifice among all company stakeholders.

Akaka/Miller Bill

Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) and Congressman George Miller (D-Calif.), along with our government affairs department, continue to search for a suitable vehicle (an appropriate bill within the proper jurisdiction) to include this provision (which would change the PBGC rules so that pilots who must stop flying at age 60 would not have their benefits actuarially reduced by the PBGC in a terminated plan). There is no lack of support for this legislation. However, all pilots are urged to contact their congressional representatives and ask that they sign on as co-sponsors. This is easily done through the link provided at www.alpa.org, or by clicking here. The bill numbers are HR2103 and S1270.

This is how it is done:
Sign into the “members only” section at www.alpa.org (you need your ALPA number and password)
Click on link on left side of paged labeled “Pilot Related Legislation” (or click here)
Scroll to S1270 and click on it (or click here)
Enter your Zip Code in the box to the right
Send the pre-written message
Return to the page where you selected S1270 and select HR2103
Enter your Zip Code again
Send pre-written message

You have now sent messages to your two Senators and your Congressman. It is imperative that your voice be heard on this very important issue.

FAA Reauthorization

Now that the House has passed this bill, it is up to the Senate to pass its version. If the Senate passes its bill, it will go to a conference committee to reconcile differences before going back to each house for a final vote. The issues range from who pays (airlines or corporate) for ATC modernization, to reopening the ATC controllers contract, pilots’ retirement age, to many other ALPA issues (FFDO, ADS-B, pilot fatigue, wake turbulence, etc.). President Bush has threatened to veto the FAA Reauthorization Bill because of the collective bargaining provisions for the NATCA (National Air Traffic Controllers Association) and the overall budget being proposed by Congress. The FAA is currently being funded by a continuing resolution.

Age 65
The House version of the FAA Reauthorization Bill (reference previous section) has all of the ALPA-supported language addressing the age 60-65 issue. The Senate currently has S65 in its version, but once the bill comes to the Senate floor, Rep. James Oberstar’s (D-Minn.) language from the House bill will be adopted.

Rep. Oberstar inserted language addressing ALPA’s issues concerning the pilot retirement age in the House version of the FAA Reauthorization Bill. His language requires that any changes to pay and/or retirement programs be negotiated and agreed to with the pilot unions. I have listed other issues in previous reports. For more information on this, click here.

Open Skies

We continue to support our alliances in Congress in opposition to this agreement, as the DOT and White House want it to happen. The FAA Reauthorization Bill (see above) has some language in it protecting the current foreign ownership rules. The President hasn’t threatened a veto on this issue alone, however, it is expected he will want language relaxing foreign ownership limits. Rep. Oberstar has made it clear to the EU aviation community that there will be no modifications to foreign ownership restrictions. Negotiations are scheduled for next year, after the first stage of the Open Skies agreement takes effect in March 2008. This issue remains the single greatest threat to our careers. We will update you as this develops.

Your continued support through the ALPA-PAC and UPPACs is of vital importance if our legislative agenda is to be successfully carried forward. We again wish to thank those who have recently signed up for ALPA-PAC and UPPAC. Your Legislative Committee extends its continued gratitude to those longstanding participants and contributors to our legislative effort.

In closing, remember that your participation and involvement does make a difference! This statement applies to our legislative, strike preparedness and daily business YOUR union volunteer members work on your behalf.
 
This is a second in a series of more in the future I hope. I'm going to title them all "What has ALPA done for me lately?" so when some clown comes on this forum and proceeds to tell all who will read how ALPA does "nothing" for the airline pilots in the U.S., I can just tell them to do a search on "What has ALPA done for me lately?" and he can read about everything that ALPA and ALPA-PAC "doesn't do" for us airline pilots.
 
yeah, I am so happy that ALPA supports raising the age 60 rule, even against the majority of the membership vote.

Instead of ALPA, we should start calling it ALPO, as in the dogfood alpo. LOL
 
Pension Reform Legislation

Earlier this month, at ALPA’s urging, legislation was introduced that would close loopholes that enabled management to gut workers’ contracts during tough economic times. This legislation would also put employees and retirees on equal footing with businesses and banks when companies file for bankruptcy. The “Protecting Employees and Retirees in Business Bankruptcies Act of 2007,” introduced by Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), promotes economic fairness and requires true shared sacrifice among all company stakeholders.
Nothing like closing the barn door AFTER the horses are out...

Great. Thanks.

Don't get me wrong, it's great legislation, but when ALPA is successful at getting BACK 100% of the lost pensions through negotiations PLUS the salaries pre-9/11, adjusted for inflation, PLUS this new legislation to protect them from being gutted again, I'll be more likely to celebrate.

Long way to go...

PoconoPilot said:
Instead of ALPA, we should start calling it ALPO, as in the dogfood alpo. LOL
Yeah,,, because THAT was original. *sigh* :rolleyes:
 
yeah, I am so happy that ALPA supports raising the age 60 rule, even against the majority of the membership vote.

Instead of ALPA, we should start calling it ALPO, as in the dogfood alpo. LOL


Age 65 is coming whether we want it or not and ALPA choose to be a part of the solution. Hopefully the association can have some sort of internal influence on the process rather than watching from the sidelines and hoping for a favorable outcome.
 
Age 65 is coming whether we want it or not and ALPA choose to be a part of the solution.

Nice to see the ALPA propaganda machine does work (on some people).
 
Age 65 is coming whether we want it or not and ALPA choose to be a part of the solution. Hopefully the association can have some sort of internal influence on the process rather than watching from the sidelines and hoping for a favorable outcome.

Sorry, you must have a better crystal ball than me. I can't with certitude say that age 65's coming. But I do know that a MAJORITY of ALPA is opposed to it, as per their push poll. Now what's ALPA national's stance on this? Oh yeah, they support a MINORITY position.

A better title for this might as well be 'what's alpa done TO me lately?'
 
Let me be clear. I am against extending the age, but if it does change, I would rather have my union involved in shaping the regulatory changes than the ATA/Politicians.
 
Let me be clear. I am against extending the age, but if it does change, I would rather have my union involved in shaping the regulatory changes than the ATA/Politicians.

Since ALPA is pushing to allow TWO over 60 pilots fly domestic (a major safety risk IMO), I have considerable problems with ALPA 'shaping' the regulatory changes.
 
I certainly hope ALPA's days are numbered. Soon, I believe the membership will be mostly regional pilots and the organization will be increasingly irrelevant to major airline pilots.

Prater's mishandling of age 60 and the U merger have shed a lot of light on why it's bad for airline pilots to have a union which is tied to other airlines. Might work well for people building cars....maybe....but it's certainly not helping airline pilots.

ALPO: R.I.P.
 
I don't know about all this other stuff, but I know one thing: the ALPA medical people saved my medical and job a few years ago. That alone is worth all the dues I've paid.
 
I certainly hope ALPA's days are numbered. Soon, I believe the membership will be mostly regional pilots and the organization will be increasingly irrelevant to major airline pilots.

Prater's mishandling of age 60 and the U merger have shed a lot of light on why it's bad for airline pilots to have a union which is tied to other airlines. Might work well for people building cars....maybe....but it's certainly not helping airline pilots.

ALPO: R.I.P.

What do you suggest?
 
Hopefully the TWA lawsuit will help to accomplish this.

The TWA lawsuit will go down in flames just like the RJDC lawsuit. And rightfully so.
 
The TWA lawsuit will go down in flames just like the RJDC lawsuit. And rightfully so.


perhaps...then a great wrong will not have been righted. I hope that is not the case.

Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.
 
Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.


That is by and large the most truthful, accurate thing posted on FI.com in ages! Bravo!

Rez O, what I suggest is that ALPA officers of all grades start thinking about what they are going to do when the ALPA gravy train dries up. That's going to start with the removal of about $11,000,000 from the annual budget. Then, and more to the point, I suggest pilots at all airlines roll up their sleeves and begin the hard work of forming independent unions that are purpose-built to represent the pilots who pay for their services. (This is something that is clearly NOT happening anymore with ALPA.)

Dave Behnke (sp?) had a great idea, and ALPA has historically done a lot of good things. Everything runs its course, though, and that time has come.
 
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perhaps...then a great wrong will not have been righted. I hope that is not the case.

It was my understanding that the TWA suers also named AMR and APA. Do you have a link? or a reference?

Win or lose- alpo is a bloated bureaucracy which ignores the desires of the pilots it is supposed to represent. It has ceased to effectively represent it's membership and therefore it's demise will be welcome. The sooner alpa goes away the sooner it's void can be filled by a union worth a hoot.

It ignores the desires? What are those desires? cause when I was an ALPA rep I constantly asked my consituients what they wanted and got nothing.

LEC election particaption rates 30%
LEC meeting attendence rates 5%
Age 60 survey particaption 30%

The fact is pilots are extremely apathetic. As citizens of the greatest democratic society in the world, pilots are dismal failures... but don't worry most Americans are like this... pilots are nothing special...


That is by and large the most truthful, accurate thing posted on FI.com in ages! Bravo!

It is actually a quite common post.. respectfully it is ignorant and pessimistic..counter productive and self deafting...

Rez O, what I suggest is that ALPA officers of all grades start thinking about what they are going to do when the ALPA gravy train dries up.

What I suggest is pilots stop whining like school girls and man up. Find some character and integrity and actually become involved in thier careers. Most pilots don't even have the decency to take the ALPA tit out of thier mouth as they complain...

Pilots refuse to particapte in the political process that controls thier carriers yet they have so much time and energy to complain....


That's going to start with the removal of about $11,000,000 from the annual budget.

Funny stuff...


Then, and more to the point, I suggest pilots at all airlines roll up their sleeves and begin the hard work of forming independent unions that are purpose-built to represent the pilots who pay for their services. (This is something that is clearly NOT happening anymore with ALPA.)

More funny stuff... and I will tell you why... apathy. Pilots do not have the ability and organizational skills to get this done... Or instead of put a little energy into thier careers over the years.. they go apathetic and then cry wolf when thier expectations (that they never communicate) aren't met... Now..you got pilots going postal and ready to do massive changes..all while if they just gave a litle bit over the years it would never come to this...

In addition we need more unity not a bunch of Iraqi-like war tribes all fighting it out.

You just don't get it. ALPA is not regulatory. The laws favor management and gov't NOT unions.. so in order to get things done we must have strength in numbers....

The reason why ALPA is not as effective is because of guys like you, Joe Merchant, luckytohaveajob, A350, etc.. you get on the message boards and spread your discontent and pessimism.... how can we progress if guys are sandbagging.. We agree with the problems and we are trying to fix them...but you are not helping!!

Instead..why not get involved! Once you sit down and look at the problem and realize there are smart people trying to effect positive change it changes your whole prospective... IN OTHER WORDS.. once you understand it makes it allot easier to accept..

Also, ALPA pilots most often look at the problem form their own intrests. It doesn't work that way... we can duke it out behind closed doors, but sooner or later we need to come out unified as a team. Not 60,000 teams... but one.

Dave Behnke (sp?) had a great idea, and ALPA has historically done a lot of good things. Everything runs its course, though, and that time has come.

all you are doing is recalling your own innocent and idealistic hopes for your airline career.. that ALPA was going tomake everything great like the good ol' days... Not much has really changed.. certianly not human nature... Check this out... pilot apathy was alive and well in the 1950's...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227:

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline.

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.
And guys will get on here are argue my point.. but they will never really say that apathy is good. And that non particaption is the way to go...

They will argue everything that they cannot control.. they don't want to talk about thier repsonsibilities.. oh no... because if they did then they would actually have to TAKE responsibility...

Nope.. guys just want to pay thier 1.95% and go about thier lives and keep living unrealisitc expectations... nothing new here... move along... nothing to see...
 
I guess in your world, Rez, every pilot would be an ALPA volunteer of some sort, eh? Everyone would show up at every meeting, etc. And you accuse me of writing funny stuff.

You've done the typical Internet thing and assumed far too much about others by reading too much into a post. I've been far more involved with ALPA than the average line pilot over the years....not at all the apathetic pilot you describe. You say I "just don't get it." What an arrogant little quip that is. Eff You! You have no idea.

It's because of what I've witnessed over the past 16 years that I'm taking a role in trying to rid my airline of ALPA! And rhetoric like yours only fuels my fire. Keep it up; maybe you should contact Prater for some tips on how to drive pilots away from ALPA. In all honesty, he's a little better at it than you are. :)
 
It was my understanding that the TWA suers also named AMR and APA. Do you have a link? or a reference?

The ongoing TWA-alpa lawsuit is just alpa.
Ask your buddies in the alpa klan about the status. Course they might be too busy shredding boxes of evidence they were required to present....the judge loved that one.

It ignores the desires? What are those desires? cause when I was an ALPA rep I constantly asked my consituients what they wanted and got nothing.

LEC election particaption rates 30%
LEC meeting attendence rates 5%
Age 60 survey particaption 30%

Why would more want to participate. what did alpo do with the opinions of the 30% that participated in the age 60 survey? Threw their opinions right out the window. But we want more participation right? ya that's the way to promote that. How many of those 30% do you think will be inclined to participate next time?

The fact is pilots are extremely apathetic. As citizens of the greatest democratic society in the world, pilots are dismal failures... but don't worry most Americans are like this... pilots are nothing special...

That pretty much sums you up....you are alpa


It is actually a quite common post.. respectfully it is ignorant and pessimistic..counter productive and self deafting...



What I suggest is pilots stop whining like school girls and man up. Find some character and integrity and actually become involved in thier careers. Most pilots don't even have the decency to take the ALPA tit out of thier mouth as they complain...

Pilots refuse to particapte in the political process that controls thier carriers yet they have so much time and energy to complain....




Funny stuff...




More funny stuff... and I will tell you why... apathy. Pilots do not have the ability and organizational skills to get this done... Or instead of put a little energy into thier careers over the years.. they go apathetic and then cry wolf when thier expectations (that they never communicate) aren't met... Now..you got pilots going postal and ready to do massive changes..all while if they just gave a litle bit over the years it would never come to this...

In addition we need more unity not a bunch of Iraqi-like war tribes all fighting it out.

You just don't get it. ALPA is not regulatory. The laws favor management and gov't NOT unions.. so in order to get things done we must have strength in numbers....

The reason why ALPA is not as effective is because of guys like you, Joe Merchant, luckytohaveajob, A350, etc.. you get on the message boards and spread your discontent and pessimism.... how can we progress if guys are sandbagging.. We agree with the problems and we are trying to fix them...but you are not helping!!

Instead..why not get involved! Once you sit down and look at the problem and realize there are smart people trying to effect positive change it changes your whole prospective... IN OTHER WORDS.. once you understand it makes it allot easier to accept..

Also, ALPA pilots most often look at the problem form their own intrests. It doesn't work that way... we can duke it out behind closed doors, but sooner or later we need to come out unified as a team. Not 60,000 teams... but one.

I agree, alpa has run it's course. Time for a new oranization to step forward and succeed. The sooner alpa finishes it's death throes the better. alpo has become more concerned with preserving it's own organization then representing it's constituents.

all you are doing is recalling your own innocent and idealistic hopes for your airline career.. that ALPA was going tomake everything great like the good ol' days... Not much has really changed.. certianly not human nature... Check this out... pilot apathy was alive and well in the 1950's...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227:

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline.

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.
And guys will get on here are argue my point.. but they will never really say that apathy is good. And that non particaption is the way to go...
Non participation is the way to go! I will never participate in the alpo facade. Having viewed the corruption 1st hand in the treatment of the TWA pilots I could never respect or belong to such a putrid bureaucracy.
They will argue everything that they cannot control.. they don't want to talk about thier repsonsibilities.. oh no... because if they did then they would actually have to TAKE responsibility...

Nope.. guys just want to pay thier 1.95% and go about thier lives and keep living unrealisitc expectations... nothing new here... move along... nothing to see...


There was a time when alpa had a positive impact and honor. That time has long passed. The sooner it dies the better. Get involved you say? I AM. I am personally supporting efforts which I hope will at least financially weaken this sad excuse for a union.

When faced with a chance to do the right thing by the TWA pilots alpo chose instead to actively recruit the apa members rather than represent the interests of their longstanding members. why? simple, $
 
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The ongoing TWA-alpa lawsuit is just alpa.
Ask your buddies in the alpa klan about the status. Course they might be too busy shredding boxes of evidence they were required to present....the judge loved that one.


Need references.. the personal opinoon of a jaded member is interesting....but...


What is the basis of the TWA lawsuit?

Here is a doc showing TWA pilots sueing the APA
http://twapilots-vs-alpa.com/downloads/twapilotstranscriptordertoshow020905.pdf

and another showing TWA pilots sueing the APA, ALPA adn AMR IN THAT ORDER..


Why would more want to participate. what did alpo do with the opinions of the 30% that participated in the age 60 survey? Threw their opinions right out the window. But we want more participation right? ya that's the way to promote that. How many of those 30% do you think will be inclined to participate next time?

That is it.... refuse to particapte...pack up your marbles and go home.. that is the American way...



That pretty much somes you up....you are alpa

You..me..us.. them...



I agree, alpa has run it's course. Time for a new oranization to step forward and succeed. The sooner alpa finishes it's death throes the better. alpo has become more concerned with preserving it's own organization then representing it's constituents.

sounds like you are calling for revolution.. a coup perhaps... just sit back and relax... we'll call you when its over.. all while ensuring that all the changes meet your individualized and custom needs...

Non participation is the way to go! I will never participate in the alpo facade. Having viewed the corruption 1st hand in the treatment of the TWA pilots I could never respect or belong to such a putrid bureaucracy.

You have to respect yourself before you can respect anyone or thing...

There was a time when alpa had a positive impact and honor. That time has long passed.

When was that? can you provide a time frame? And what did ALPA do specifically for that honor?


The sooner it dies the better. Get involved you say? I AM. I am personally supporting efforts which I hope will at least financially weaken this sad excuse for a union.


First you say don't particapte then you say you are involved...



When faced with a chance to do the right thing by the TWA pilots alpo chose instead to actively recruit the apa members rather than represent the interests of their longstanding members. why? simple, $

Don't forget the APA and AMR....
 

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