What has ALPA done for me lately?

[pylut]

wow Rez, I think you are finally losing it. Usually your posts are coherent. Sad misguided rah rah propaganda for alpa, but coherent.

I think your reading comprehension is lacking. Once again, I am not nor will I ever participate in alpo again. Read this next part slowly and I'll use small words for you....
This however does not mean that I will not participate in anything else...I will gladly participate in alpas demise, extinction and financial ruin.

You have to respect yourself before you can respect anyone or thing...

interesting tangent here, you sound a little bit like a fortune cookie. respect and honor are exactly the reasons I will not support alpo.

educate yourself on the lawsuit, it's not my job to. Again I say to you the ongoing lawsuit is with alpa.

Interesting you keep bringing up apa and amr. You do like to try to divert all responsibility from alpa don't you? alpa had obligations to the TWA pilot force that amr and apa did not. think on that.

I know I know, same old Rez song, it's not alpa's fault, they have no responsibility it is the fault of the pilots, the members etc etc.

 

[likeitis]

ALPA will cease to be when age 65 passes. The lawsuits coming for misrepresentation of the majority will be dumbfounding. The day a pilot flies past 60 will be the day they are put on my "no fly list." Not a safe working environment for me to be flying with someone who is taking money and time away from my family. Until an agreement on how these windfall winning pilots are going to make those affected by their decision whole, I will continue to press others to do the same.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

wow Rez, I think you are finally losing it. Usually your posts are coherent. Sad misguided rah rah propaganda for alpa, but coherent.

I think your reading comprehension is lacking. Once again, I am not nor will I ever participate in alpo again. Read this next part slowly and I'll use small words for you....

This however does not mean that I will not participate in anything else...I will gladly participate in alpas demise, extinction and financial ruin.

because ALPA is repsonsibile for your demise, extinction and financial ruin...???

interesting tangent here, you sound a little bit like a fortune cookie. respect and honor are exactly the reasons I will not support alpo.

educate yourself on the lawsuit, it's not my job to. Again I say to you the ongoing lawsuit is with alpa.

Looks like I educated you on it. AMR and APA and named... Like any good lawyer... there will throw all on the wall to see what sticks...

Interesting you keep bringing up apa and amr. You do like to try to divert all responsibility from alpa don't you? alpa had obligations to the TWA pilot force that amr and apa did not. think on that.

Interesting that you never bring AMR and the APA.. yet they are really the ones that screwed you over..

But you had expectations that ALPA was your shining white knight... and you feel silly for believing that and now you are angry.. and it has to be someones fault...cause it sure has hel! ain't yours...

I know I know, same old Rez song, it's not alpa's fault, they have no responsibility it is the fault of the pilots, the members etc etc.

ALPA has been woring in the past and will be again.. it is an organization made up of people... if ALPA is at fault then what about you? or are perfect.. faultless... run your lawsuit and we will see what happens...

But when you run your bitter vitrol just ensure that you include AMR and APA....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA will cease to be when age 65 passes. The lawsuits coming for misrepresentation of the majority will be dumbfounding.

On what basis?

The day a pilot flies past 60 will be the day they are put on my "no fly list."

There are already ALPA pilots flying in the USA over age 60.

Not a safe working environment for me to be flying with someone who is taking money and time away from my family. Until an agreement on how these windfall winning pilots are going to make those affected by their decision whole, I will continue to press others to do the same.

good luck!

 

[PHXFLYR]

What do you suggest?

Why Rez ,haven't you heard ? Our little 10,000 hour buddy and his friends have this bright new shiny union called USAPA. There gonna do all the things ALPA couldn't do right all those years. They're going to fight Cabotage,restore the lost pensions ,restore payrates to where they were prior to Sept 2001 not to mention offer all the services that ALPA has offered for years .Loss of License Insurance,ALPA Aeromedical and a voice on Capitol Hill. But here's my favorite part ,Rez . I'm gonna get all this for less than I'm paying for the ALPA representation I'm getting now. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Where do I sign?


PHXFLYR

 

[PCL_128]

Why Rez ,haven't you heard ? Our little 10,000 hour buddy and his friends have this bright new shiny union called USAPA. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Where do I sign?


PHXFLYR

Isn't it interesting how these clowns have been claiming for weeks and weeks that they already have an overwhelming majority of the pilots' signed cards, but still haven't filed for a vote with the NMB? Seems to me like the USAPA jokesters don't have the support that they claim.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I don't know whether they do have the required number of cards or whether they don't. My guess is that they do but they don't have the "balz" to take the next step. You know,at some sick level,I hope this recall comes to fruition and those idiots are sucessful. This way I'll have a continuous source of amusement for the remainder of my career listening to all those easties moan and groan when their "new and improved union " fails to deliver all that they promised,and in many cases deliver even less



PHXFLYR

 

[FDJ2]

I don't know whether they do have the required number of cards or whether they don't. My guess is that they do but they don't have the "balz" to take the next step.
PHXFLYR

You might be right on that summation.

It's easy to point to what's gone wrong or what expectations have not been met, It's a whole different ball game to actually do something about it.

Perhaps they are beginning to realize their limitations and the fact that they can't deliver on their promise to vacate the Nicolau decision, which would be binding on USAPA, or deliver the utopian pilot career, with no set backs and no economic realities.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I guess in your world, Rez, every pilot would be an ALPA volunteer of some sort, eh? Everyone would show up at every meeting, etc.

They should try.

Or, at a minimum, support those that are doing something.

You've done the typical Internet thing and assumed far too much about others by reading too much into a post.

You haven't given him much to work with. You post like a pathetic whiner. Maybe you aren't, maybe you're just a loser who needs to blame someone, ANYONE for your lot in life.

You've chosen to blame ALPA, which ironically, is YOU!

I've been far more involved with ALPA than the average line pilot over the years....not at all the apathetic pilot you describe.

Wow! Then it truly is all your fault!

You say I "just don't get it." What an arrogant little quip that is. Eff You! You have no idea.

People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it. Go back to your Laverne & Shirley re-runs and leave the heavy-lifting to those wiling to grab a rifle and stand a post.

It's because of what I've witnessed over the past 16 years that I'm taking a role in trying to rid my airline of ALPA!

And replace it with what?

Is your spiffy new union going to be run by aliens from Cigna-7...or from pilots at your airline?

'Cuz if the leadership of your cool new union comes from your own pilot group, you should be smart enough to understand:

1. The guys that step up didn't step up before. Where were these "saviors" during the last election cycle?

2. A new union will not eliminate the divisions within your group...it'll just mean you have other structural differences to fret while you're trying to bridge those differences.

You'll still be pi$$ed. Whiners always are.

 

[stlflyguy]

because ALPA is repsonsibile for your demise, extinction and financial ruin...???





Looks like I educated you on it. AMR and APA and named... Like any good lawyer... there will throw all on the wall to see what sticks...



Interesting that you never bring AMR and the APA.. yet they are really the ones that screwed you over..

But you had expectations that ALPA was your shining white knight... and you feel silly for believing that and now you are angry.. and it has to be someones fault...cause it sure has hel! ain't yours...



ALPA has been woring in the past and will be again.. it is an organization made up of people... if ALPA is at fault then what about you? or are perfect.. faultless... run your lawsuit and we will see what happens...

But when you run your bitter vitrol just ensure that you include AMR and APA....

Rez, you're getting too predictable.

The appeals court said the TWA pilots did indeed have an issue with ALPA. ALPA has failed to get the case dismissed and is now backed into a corner. Go ahead, Rez, ask the ALPA attorneys if they'll be able to escape this one. But you won't. You're predictable.

Remember that TWA WASN'T in bankruptcy prior to AMR's arrival but filed it as a condition of sale. Hey Rez, ALPA still works against the TWA pilots to this day by trying to insert the Eagle pilots ahead of them on the AA recall list. They aren't even ON the recall list yet they're fighting to flow while there are others furloughed.

You just don't get it...AMR and APA screwed over the TWA pilots because ALPA let them. The motive(s) is (are) obvious.


stlflyguy

 

[AA717driver]

Rez--It's clear you know nothing of the process that led to the current situation in the TWA v. ALPA lawsuit.

For once, can you just admit you don't know anything about the subject and walk away? TC

 

[PHXFLYR]

You might be right on that summation.

It's easy to point to what's gone wrong or what expectations have not been met, It's a whole different ball game to actually do something about it.

Perhaps they are beginning to realize their limitations and the fact that they can't deliver on their promise to vacate the Nicolau decision, which would be binding on USAPA, or deliver the utopian pilot career, with no set backs and no economic realities.

At one time I thought calmer heads would prevail over there,I really did. But with the number of USAPA bag stickers,bag tags and the like that I see jumpseating back and forth to work every week,I kind of have my doubts. However,with that said, I think their organizing drive lost just a little bit of steam when they found out that the Nicolau Award was still going to be final and binding regardless of what union represented their pilot group. Time will tell.By the way ,got a chuckle reagrding your statement "utopian pilot career". If there was ever the perfect example of an oxymoron ,this phrase is it!!

PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, you're getting too predictable.

The appeals court said the TWA pilots did indeed have an issue with ALPA. ALPA has failed to get the case dismissed and is now backed into a corner. Go ahead, Rez, ask the ALPA attorneys if they'll be able to escape this one. But you won't. You're predictable.

Remember that TWA WASN'T in bankruptcy prior to AMR's arrival but filed it as a condition of sale. Hey Rez, ALPA still works against the TWA pilots to this day by trying to insert the Eagle pilots ahead of them on the AA recall list. They aren't even ON the recall list yet they're fighting to flow while there are others furloughed.

You just don't get it...AMR and APA screwed over the TWA pilots because ALPA let them. The motive(s) is (are) obvious.


stlflyguy

So the APA and AMR are free and clear of any obligations to the TWA pilots... thru the legal process the APA and AMR have been weeded out as suspect and thus no liability....??

Can you provide an objective analysis and update...

Look... if ALPA made a mistake then so be it..I'll even pay my fair share.. I'll even agree to an assesment... but all I really hear is whiney cry baby pilots throwing jabs and insults.. school me with objective facts...

 

[ironspud]

Rez--It's clear you know nothing of the process that led to the current situation in the TWA v. ALPA lawsuit.

For once, can you just admit you don't know anything about the subject and walk away? TC

Wouldn't it be best if this subject was confined to our private board? These folks don't need to know about it. Until it's in the history books, at least.

 

[AA717driver]

Wouldn't it be best if this subject was confined to our private board? These folks don't need to know about it. Until it's in the history books, at least.

That's why I didn't take this opportunity to "educate" him.

If he wants to know, he can take a break from shining shoes at Herndon and ask the Lawyers...TC

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That's why I didn't take this opportunity to "educate" him.

If he wants to know, he can take a break from shining shoes at Herndon and ask the Lawyers...TC

Sounds like sandbaggin ALPA screwed you guys but only you are too smart to understand it... only you know the truth...

 

[BeCareful!]

Where do I sign?


PHXFLYR

No need to sign, PHX......the majority will take care of it

 

[FDJ2]

The appeals court said the TWA pilots did indeed have an issue with ALPA. ALPA has failed to get the case dismissed and is now backed into a corner.

Did the Judge rule on the merits of the TWA claim, or did he simply state that he has subject matter jurisdiction to hear the claim, or did he just simply not summarily dismiss the claim?

The standard for summary dismissal is quite high, the court has to assume that all the facts and evidence support the plaintiff and then still find that their is no series of facts that can support the plaintiffs case.

Surviving a summary motion for dismissal is significant, but it hardly proves that the claim has merit. Just look at how the RJDC litigation melted down after discovery and Dan Ford and the RJDC had to throw in the towel.

 

[FDJ2]

Time will tell.By the way ,got a chuckle reagrding your statement "utopian pilot career". If there was ever the perfect example of an oxymoron ,this phrase is it!!

PHXFLYR

That's good, because I got a chuckle writing it.

 

[stlflyguy]

Did the Judge rule on the merits of the TWA claim, or did he simply state that he has subject matter jurisdiction to hear the claim, or did he just simply not summarily dismiss the claim?

The standard for summary dismissal is quite high, the court has to assume that all the facts and evidence support the plaintiff and then still find that their is no series of facts that can support the plaintiffs case.

Surviving a summary motion for dismissal is significant, but it hardly proves that the claim has merit. Just look at how the RJDC litigation melted down after discovery and Dan Ford and the RJDC had to throw in the towel.

ALPA's only argument was the timeliness of the suit. The trial court initially took ALPA's position, only to have it reversed on appeal.

stlflyguy

 

[Occam's Razor]

Geez!

A moron shoots himself in the foot...then sues Smith & Wesson.

Duke-Spellacy, TWA/APA, RJDC.

All harmed by "ALPA".

Which is...(wait for it!)...Themselves!

Overlook that little morsel if it helps your "Miss Victim 2007" sash fit better. But it's reality...and reality doesn't change according to our ability to stomach it.

 

[FDJ2]

ALPA's only argument was the timeliness of the suit. The trial court initially took ALPA's position, only to have it reversed on appeal.

stlflyguy

Of course, because in a summary motion to dismiss before discovery you can't argue the facts or the merit. That's my point. All facts and inferences are presumed to support the plaintiff, not the defendant.
All the TWA pilots had to do was present a claim that the court had subject matter jurisdiction to hear. ALPA's only argument can be that the court does not have that jurisdiction. In this case because of the timeliness.

Didn't the the TWA pilots ( Bensel) also file a lawsuit against the APA, AA and TWA LLC?

 

[stlflyguy]

Yes. A little "Google" work and the suit can be found. Overall, the courts indicated the actual problem was with ALPA.

stlflyguy

 

[FDJ2]

Yes. A little "Google" work and the suit can be found. Overall, the courts indicated the actual problem was with ALPA.

stlflyguy

I believe you'll find that the courts simply decided that they should hear the case, not that they were leaning one way or another. Stating a claim that a court has jurisdiction to hear and proving it are two very different things.

 

[stlflyguy]

I believe you'll find that the courts simply decided that they should hear the case, not that they were leaning one way or another. Stating a claim that a court has jurisdiction to hear and proving it are two very different things.

Agreed.

Watch, wait, and see.

stlflyguy

 

[FDJ2]

Agreed.

Watch, wait, and see.

stlflyguy

Hey, that's the only thing we can do from the cheap seats. What's done is done. Wether or not ALPA violated its duty of fair representation is to be determined. The US Court of Appeals for the Third District had it right when they stated:

"It is our belief that at this stage of the proceedings Plaintiffs should be given a fuller opportunity for discovery relating to Count I and permitted to ascertain if there is any factual support for their claims. At this point we ask “not whether a plaintiff will ultimately prevail but whether the claimant is entitled to offer evidence to support the claims.”

"It may be that ALPA properly carried out its duty of fair representation and there was nothing ALPA could realistically accomplish under difficult circumstances. But it is too early to decide this issue at this point."

Here's the link to their decision:
http://vls.law.villanova.edu/locator/3d/Oct2004/033176p.pdf

 

[PHXFLYR]

No need to sign, PHX......the majority will take care of it

Patiently waiting for you guys to shoot yourself in the other foot...and looking forward to not having to pay another thin dime in union dues for the rest of my career !!


PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Agreed.

Watch, wait, and see.

stlflyguy

What are you hoping to gain by sueing ALPA... what type of award are you looking for?

 

[pylut]

Sorry to ignore you the last couple days there Rez, but the weather's awesome and the mtn biking has been epic

because ALPA is repsonsibile for your demise, extinction and financial ruin...???
you're a kooky dude, you tend to pull tangents out of thin air don't you. obviously I am still alive and kicking. As far as financial ruin goes, my financial health and retirement are now assured since I am no longer associated with alpo. Heck, alpos demise may even pad the bankroll a little more. Not necessary though, I will be happy with merely their demise.






Looks like I educated you on it. Wrongo,AMR and APA and named... Like any good lawyer... there will throw all on the wall to see what sticks...
boy you sure don't get it. Again....the ONGOING litigation is with TWA and alpa.



Interesting that you never bring AMR and the APA.. yet they are really the ones that screwed you over..
Interesting you seem so intent to dwell on amr and apa. I don't have warm fuzzies about either organization, yet I am able to focus on a conversation regarding alpa to express my views on them. I guess if the title of the thread were what has amr and apa done for you, I might discuss them a little more. Other than that it is silly, much as if I said boy Rez, it is interesting that you never mention long haired french poodles in our alpa is evil discussion.

But you had expectations that ALPA was your shining white knight... and you feel silly for believing that and now you are angry.. and it has to be someones fault...cause it sure has hel! ain't yours...
More imagination run amuck again I'm afraid. You seem to be good at that though.

I did expect representation by an honorable organization. I have since been educated about the nature of alpas character.


ALPA has been woring (whoring? yes, agreed)in the past and will be again.. it is an organization made up of people... if ALPA is at fault then what about you? or are perfect.. faultless... run your lawsuit and we will see what happens...

But when you run your bitter vitrol just ensure that you include AMR and APA....

No bitterness, just open eyes. I have seen alpa sell out the TWA pilots in the interest of courting the aa guys in hopes of garnering more dues dollars. Aside from the lawsuit alpo has no relevance or effect on my life whatsoever. So it is not with bitterness or truly any emotion except the desire for honor in the industry that I am happy to tell my view of your worthless, bloated self serving ineffective club. In my opinion the pilot force will be better served by an accelerated extinction of alpa. Maybe the next union will have something alpa does not...HONOR.

 

[FDJ2]

What are you hoping to gain by sueing ALPA... what type of award are you looking for?

PMFJI,

Here's the link to the original complaint against ALPA:

http://www.twapilots.com/complaint.htm

Here's the relief section:

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs, LeRoy Bensel, James Arthur, Patrick Brady, Theodore A. Case, Matthew J. Comlish, Darshanprit S. Dhillon, Lemuel A. Dougherty, Michael V. Finucan, John S. Hefley, Howard B. Hollander, Robert A. Pastore, and Sally Young , on behalf of themselves and all others similarly situated, demand judgment against ALPA:
1. for compensatory damages, costs, counsel fees, and pre- and post-judgment interest;
2. directing ALPA to take such action as is necessary to restore the seniority rights of the Class; and
3. such further relief as the Court deems just and equitable.

On February 15, 2005 the "Class" informed the court that they expect damages to exceed $1,200,000,000.

Here's the chronology of events:

January 9, 2001: TWA enters into Asset Purchase Agreement with American.

April 2, 2001: TWA MEC passes a resolution waiving
its seniority protection provisions in exchange for
American’s “reasonable best efforts” promise.

April 9, 2001: ALPA and TWA MEC enter into
transition agreement with TWA-LLC.

April 10, 2001: American’s purchase of TWA’s assets
finalized; TWA-LLC begins operations as a separate air carrier.

November 8, 2001: American and APA execute Supplement CC, an agreement governing the seniority integration of the former TWA pilots. Supplement
CC is subject to two conditions subsequent.

March 5, 2002: NMB declares that American and TWA LLC are a “single carrier” for RLA purposes.

April 3, 2002: NMB certifies APA as the sole bargaining agent for all pilots, making Supplement CC effective; transition agreement between TWA-LLC and ALPA expires.

April 18, 2002: Arbitrator rejects ALPA’s allegation that American did not use its “reasonable best efforts” to protect the TWA-LLC pilots’ seniority integration, as promised in its letter.

September 3, 2002: Class action initiated by former TWA
pilots.

January 27, 2003: Class files Second Amended Restated
Complaint

Link to 2004 Appeals Court Decision reversing the summary rejection of the case and allowing the plaintiffs the opportunity to conduct discovery.

http://vls.law.villanova.edu/locator/3d/Oct2004/033176p.pdf