What do you think will happen to ASA?

[jegermeister]

JR made it very clear that this part of an ALPA national agenda....

This is what scares me. If true this contract is being used as nothing more than a political tool for ALPA national. If so F&ck them. They weren't too bent out shape to take it in the @ss for mainline cuts in pay, retirement, work rules, ect. But hey what are a few regional jobs when it comes to principal.

BL has stated that this company will survive based on it's competative cost structure. Sounds reasonable to me. You know what, I think we do alright pay wise now with a COLA adjustment. The parts of this contract that we have TA'd are what most of us have been asking for from the start (section 13, commuter clause, duty rigs). Give up the pie in sky crap and finish this. The union blames the company's lawyer. The union needs to rely less on the boys in DC.

I voted to authorize a strike. Don't make me regret my vote. I'll stike for a fair contract, not for a political whim.

 

[John Pennekamp]

but what can we do - our CNC just last week told us in recurrent pilots they are sure of a release - and they know sw will settle before a strike. they wont back down - not even a little. it was mentioned to the CNC that we would not get released by the nmb before the summer and they told everyone it was coming. how could anyone think that?

they are also telling the recurent classes that the alpa vote is a done-deal? where do they get thier confidence from?

i feel like the CNC is playing poker with my future?

They are completely out of touch with the rank & file. The only people who take the time to give them feedback are the true believers. They have blinders on and they DON'T WANT to know the truth. They can't handle the fact that guys like me who used to be their biggest supporters have turned on them because of the recent events.

They're not just playing poker, they're playing stupid poker. They're going all in with a pair of jacks, while the river is set for a full house across the table.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I think you're taking this out of context John. I believe JR meant we will get a good and fair contract. This will show the SKYW pilots what resolve will accomplish is what I sincerely believe JR meant.

As for DU, I again believe you're taking it out of context. DU meant we weren't going after a "sky-high" contract just to influence the SKYW election. But we are going after a fair and just contract with meaningful work rules, pay, and scope. On that the entire MEC/CNC is in agreement, amd the majority of ASA pilots.

Maybe you ought to provide your 'tape' for all to listen to so they can draw their own conclusions on what was said, and the intent it had.

How do you know or have any right to profess what DU or JR "really meant"?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Is this the kind of good business sense that sends 30 CRJ-900's to ATL with a crew base. Not to mention the added cost of an infrastructure that is seperate than ours (maintenance, etc.). Seems to me JA is making good of his threats and promises, and that we keep trying the same blind stunts over, and over, and over, and over, again. No, it has gone much farther than rhetoric and negotiating leverage.

This is exactly the point. This is the reason for my "turnaround" from ALPA supporter to ALPA critic. The turning point for me was when they announced the Delta takeover of ATL. We are now 100% replaceable, practically overnight, and with the stroke of a pen.

Jerry said this would happen. Pretty much everything he has said would happen has happened. Y'all can call me running scared, or spin this to whatever aphorism for running scared you like, but every tough guy knows what battles to fight and what battles to dodge. We're fighting a fight we simply can't win. The union and the burn it down crowd have underestimated their opponent, and it seems now that he has the advantage.

We have never had anything like Atkin at this company before. He is a cold shrewd businessman who isn't afraid to cut throats for the furtherance of his company and his stock. He will not let a bunch of juvenile RJ jockeys destroy what his family has built by striking or pricing him out of the game. He will use all his political influence to stop it. If that fails, he will dismantle ASA and cut his losses and exposure before he will allow that. But it doesn't have to come to that. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

It's time we size up our "enemy" and live to fight another day. Let's, get real with our contract demands, drop the unionista attitudes, and finish this thing up so we can cash in on the -900 growth while it's still here. We can settle this contract for industry average pay, plus scope and our already TA'd work rules, and still have a damn fine contract. We can grow and prosper and the good times can come back. Upgrades will continue to drop, our fleet will grow, and we can go back in three years and hit them again when there is cash in the bank.

Now y'all can believe whomever you want. On one side, you have ASARJMan, Speedtape, Sweptback, and the others who have nothing constructive to add except to personally attack us and try to leverage us into silence, mostly because in the dark corners of their mind the don't admit to, they know we're right and it scares them.

On the other side, you have guys like me with some serious street credibility saying "enough is enough".

You decide. Either way, I hope to see you at the LEC meeting.

 

[79%N1]

Gotta say, I'm 100% with you. Every day longer is a day without scheduling/reserve, commuter clause, pay raises (yes, there ARE pay raises) a bonus plan (to further increase our pay!), possible additional aircraft, and on and on to much better additions to this contract. Read through the TA'd sections. We are the highest paid 700 rates in DCI, (second to only Horizon in the industry), the company will come up on the 200 rates. Add in the other stuff, which when we started this we told the CNC was our highest priority. I, personally will drop retro pay for some reasonable job protection and the rest of the above. We are losing money and QOL daily that a retro bonus will not make up. We are as guilty as the company for dragging out the negotiations, so why hold their feet to the fire over that??? I bet we could buy the scope we want and get it signed with retro.

 

[crjskipper]

the CNC wants a release - it could (but probably and hopefully wont) happen at any moment. if it does - what if Jerry wont agree? are we all ready to strike? how do i know the company wont agree to everything short of scope and we end up walking because Jerry wont agree to scope with the highest 700 rates in dci?

there is no debating the CNC has put all their cards in the release basket - do all of us realize how close to walking we could be?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

These negotiations are no different than any other company. Look at the most recent DL negotiations as a prime example. It came down to the eleventh hour B4 a TA came out. Yes, a proffer is our best chance of getting this thing done any tx soon. The chances of an actual strike are nil. Best case is both sides go in with clear heads and come out with a fair non token contract. Worst case is the CNC goes in chest thumping and JA says yes to avoid a strike. As a result we would have made it more beneficical to simply transfer the a/c to SKW leaving ASA a shell of a company.

 

[79%N1]

You know, you are both exactly right. That is why I think now I hope we do not get released. Both outcomes are bad.
1) Management does not cave, ALPA does not either. Cooling off period ends. We walk out. Hurts Delta, hurts SKYW, hurts us....maybe permenant.
2) JA caves. We get what we want. JA makes good on his promise to transfer aircraft to Skywest. Remember....now the status quo is over. Management can do whatever they see fit. Expect Delta to retire ASA 200's and replace them with 700/900's at every other regional. Bad plan!

Lets continue to negotiate. The MEC/CNC is soooo riled up for a release, feeling this is all it will take to force JA's hand. Careful what you wish for fellas!

 

[wms]

Businessmen don't buy businesses to not make money with them and JA isn't gonna throw almost 1/2B away. He'll make you think that, but in the end good business is using assets to make money. Not throwing them away to make a point. We could cost alot more than we do now and the profits would still be incredible.

 

[MONKEY]

Businessmen don't buy businesses to not make money with them and JA isn't gonna throw almost 1/2B away. He'll make you think that, but in the end good business is using assets to make money. Not throwing them away to make a point. We could cost alot more than we do now and the profits would still be incredible.

SkyWest payed $425 million for ASA. That was the book value of the assets. Normally you would buy the assets plus a premium, but that was not the case on this sale. If ASA goes under JA loses nothing except for the opertunity costs. Inc could sell of the assets for what they paid.

Now, if ASA continues to operate with exceptable margins, then Inc turns a profit.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Remember....now the status quo is over. Management can do whatever they see fit. Expect Delta to retire ASA 200's and replace them with 700/900's at every other regional. Bad plan!

I'm done expressing my feelings on the negotiations on this forum. It's pointless. However, I will say, that the ALPA legal team has looked into the whole "status quo" concept and found that it does not apply to aircraft transfers. Even while we are in negotiations, SKW Inc. can transfer every last aircraft we have without legal ramification, which they have not done.

Like I said, you know my opinion and it's pointless for me to reiterate it, but indefinitely staying in negotiations will not protect us from asset transfer.

 

[Matt Foley]

Who farted?

 

[www.]

Let's, get real with our contract demands, drop the unionista attitudes, and finish this thing up so we can cash in on the -900 growth while it's still here.

I really don't think your going to see "growth". As DAL has stated in press releases over the last several months that there will not be any more new aircraft added to the DCI system. Only replacements of the 40, 44 and 50 seat aircraft. As we have seen at CMR in the last few weeks.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I really don't think your going to see "growth". As DAL has stated in press releases over the last several months that there will not be any more new aircraft added to the DCI system. Only replacements of the 40, 44 and 50 seat aircraft. As we have seen at CMR in the last few weeks.

That's a good point. I agree that DCI as a whole probably won't be adding many new airplanes. In fact, my crystal ball shows DCI shrinking over the next few years as mainline takes back a lot of the routes they have been using RJs as a "place marker" on while they were bk. Routes that never should have had an RJ like ATL-MDW or ATL-MKE or CVG-FLL.

What I should have said is that we don't want to miss out on the -200 for -700 or -900 exchanges which are about to begin big time. If we're still in negotiations, or if we price ourselves ot of the game, we'll miss out. Then we'll see our -200s replaced with -700/-705/-900 airplanes at Skywest. This is why we really don't want to exceed their compensation package.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Even while we are in negotiations, SKW Inc. can transfer every last aircraft we have without legal ramification, which they have not done.

100% correct that JA could transfer every a/c we have to SKW right now and close ASA down, but they won't. It would be far to expensive to do based on our present cost structure. However, as stated earlier, if we are released and the union presses for wages higher than SKW on the CR2 and even higher wages on the CR7 they WILL make it cost effective to transfer the a/c and there will be no reason to keep ASA at her present size or grow her at all.

 

[MELIT]

100% correct that JA could transfer every a/c we have to SKW right now and close ASA down, but they won't. It would be far to expensive to do based on our present cost structure. However, as stated earlier, if we are released and the union presses for wages higher than SKW on the CR2 and even higher wages on the CR7 they WILL make it cost effective to transfer the a/c and there will be no reason to keep ASA at her present size or grow her at all.

You should press for the highest pay. Don't lower the BAR! Go for broke.

 

[outtahere]

You should press for the highest pay. Don't lower the BAR! Go for broke.

You are a dork, and you can add me to your adoring fans who have banished you to the ignore list.

 

[wms]

SkyWest payed $425 million for ASA. That was the book value of the assets. Normally you would buy the assets plus a premium, but that was not the case on this sale. If ASA goes under JA loses nothing except for the opertunity costs. Inc could sell of the assets for what they paid.

Now, if ASA continues to operate with exceptable margins, then Inc turns a profit.

They paid 425m for assets that do them no good if they're not utilized. JA can still make more money with them over time in revenue than in a one-time fire sale. Besides, who's gonna buy 150 -200s for a price high enough to cover the lost revenue? JA's not interested in shrinking. Like any businessman he's interested in growing his business

 

[MELIT]

You are a dork, and you can add me to your adoring fans who have banished you to the ignore list.

That means alot to me.:crying:

 

[John Pennekamp]

They paid 425m for assets that do them no good if they're not utilized. JA can still make more money with them over time in revenue than in a one-time fire sale. Besides, who's gonna buy 150 -200s for a price high enough to cover the lost revenue? JA's not interested in shrinking. Like any businessman he's interested in growing his business

They paid 425M for assets worth at least that much.

Who's going to buy the -200s? Bombardier is buying them back as fast as they can get them. They are being refurbished and sold to airlines in China.

JA is interested in growing his business. Skywest Airlines is doing great. He's never had any love or any use for ASA. I do believe he bought us for our assets as a favor to Delta to "take us off their hands" before they lost us in bk.