What do you think will happen to ASA?

[FmrFreightDog]

Something.

When Jerry Atkin visited our crew lounge, the pilots in attendance showed their asses.

When Jerry Atkin tried to have a frank business discussion with the MEC chairman and vice chairman, he was greeted with chest thumping rhetoric. He stated that he would gladly make a business decision to shut down ASA if our costs rose above Skywest. The union told him that was his perogative, but they wouldn't flinch.

The pilots continue to support an MEC whose verson of reality is about as likely to happen as G.W. Bush getting a doctoral degree. And the pilots continue to thump their chests and scream about how they'll "burn it down" if they don't get their way. Some of us have looked around at what's happening here in the last few months and and smartened up. But it's too little too late.

Jerry has decided that ASA is not worth saving due to the angry pilots and the overly militent union. Add to that our rising costs in the new contract, and that's the death gasp for ASA.

This hot off the presses from a "fly on the wall" in the Skywest GO:

They are doing their best to drag out the contract, by using all of their contacts in Washington, because ASA is going to be eliminated at the end of the summer when the schedules normally pull down. They want to make sure we don't get any scope that will make things difficult. By then Delta will have ramped up enough of the other DCIs to cover most of our flying, especially by using -900s and E170s on formerly -200 routes. Our assets will be transfered to Skywest and remaining ASA employees (pilots and flight attendants), will be given the opportunity to interview and transition to Skywest ahead of time, exactly as the rampers did to Delta (without seniority, and 1/2 longevity).

Look for the announcement to come out soon, within the next month or two.

Wow. You know, I used to more or less see eye to eye with you, but your recent 180 has grown most tiresome. I am far from the most militant union guy on property, and I have never been a "burn it down" person, but I can't even begin to align myself to your newfound point of view.

If we are, in fact, doomed as you say, then our negotiations are meaningless. If we cave on everything and work for less than SKW, we still lose. According to you, an evil alliance of the Republicans, the LDS, the ghost of Joseph Smith, Moroni, the NMB, and quite possibly Kim Jong Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have conspired to seal the fate of ASA.

If, in fact, we are done for, then why the rhetoric? Game over, remember? After all, nothing we do at this point will save us. You're wasting your time by closing the proverbial barn door behind the horse.

Or....

We can consider the fact that Jerry is and always has been a very good businessman. He's in the business to making money for his shareholders. By your recent comments, you obviously have no idea what the negotiating committee has been asking for as of late. Aircraft transfers, as previously demonstrated, cost about 100k a piece. Nothing the negotiating committee is asking for.... really asking for... costs anywhere near that amount.

Atkin and company are not going to squander shareholders' dollars in a money-losing attempt to break a union. There will be no aircraft transfer, as the last transfer was not received by the people who ultimately control the purse strings.

You are content to portray yourself as a wise oldtimer who has seen it all and can no longer find the heart to support the MEC and the negotiating committee because you feel they don't have the best interests of the pilot group at heart. In reality you are a weak man who was more than willing to support one position for four plus years and then change directions overnight. You lack conviction, and you are not confident enough to support the beliefs you have long held in the face of a little adversity.

You, sir, are not a voice of reason. You are nothing more than a coward.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

FWIW, I advocate caving on the rates and buying scope.

Your management team is on record (as of the last negotiating session) as saying, "There is not enough money left on the table to buy scope."

How do you propose we fix that?

 

[Howard Hughes]

Not the NMB. The republican administration and congress, to whom the NMB answers. Bet that you didn't know the LDS Church is one of the largest political contributers. And that the Atkin family are LDS bigwigs who tithe millions? Add to that Atkin's standing with the RAA and Delta's standing with the ATA. Yes, I think they have friends in the Beltway.quote]

You most certainly will not gain credibility or change anyones mind by telling things that are not true. I am very familiar with the LDS Church. They make zero political contributions. They are however the largest contributer to needy people throughout the world, moreso than any other religious organization and often are the first on the scene when people need help. Many do not know this because they do there work quietly without the TV fanfair. I know several LDS people and they are some of the nicest, most humble people I have met.

Now regarding Jerry Atkin, he is a poor representation of what the LDS people stand for. I would go as far as to say in many ways he is a hypocrite. Dont get his weekend affiliation with the LDS church confused with what the LDS church really values and tries to teach.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Now regarding Jerry Atkin, he is a poor representation of what the LDS people stand for.

Indeed. I would say that the drunken motorcycle accident would attest to that.

 

[VeeOne]

To think we are going to get a pie in the sky contract and continue to exist in current form with seniority integration with Skywest, or stand alone in current form is absurd.

We already have the highest turboprop rate, the highest 700 rate, and we want one of the highest 200 rates. What is "industry average" about that sort of contract?

The aircraft transfers were very expensive. However, if we go bust and are liquidated, Skywest Inc. could pick up our aircraft for pennies on the dollar- the leasing company becomes liable for the aircraft transfers and the cost associated with them. No pilots to staff those new aircraft you say? How about the hiring of street captains. Bet they would end up with boat loads of applicants. Not to mention all those that want to continue to live in Atlanta.

We are fighting a war with someone that doesn't really give a d@$m about our plight. Jerry stands to gain cash if we fold or grow. If we fold there will be flying for Skywest Inc. to throw towards Skywest Airlines, along with other carriers that will gain as well. He gets growth without the headache of dealing with ALPA.

 

[Tarzan]

Well said VeeOne. It is too bad that guys are blinded by the fact that management makes good on threats nowadays.

 

[wms]

.....

 

[wms]

.....

 

[Oakum_Boy]

It wouldn't really be a shame if ASA kicked the bucket. It has been dying a painful and gory death since it was born.

 

[79%N1]

Oh really....so the loss of all the jobs of the people who work there, and need to pay their mortgages and put food on the table wouldn't be a shame? What an a$$inine statement that is! Maybe we can all come and live with you.........

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your management team is on record (as of the last negotiating session) as saying, "There is not enough money left on the table to buy scope."

How do you propose we fix that?

Then our course is set.

Without scope, we are finished. No binding scope means no binding contract. The alternative is underbidding SkyWest guys. Then when they take concessions, underbidding them again in a vicious cycle that undermines our profession.

Folks like me can wish that we would have made scope a priority early - when Skip Barnette would have agreed instantly and we could have obtained excellent merger and fragmentation language - but regrets and missed opportunities will do us no good now.

All of us at this airline need to make priority #1 getting another job. Unless your version of "another job" is near the bottom of SkyWest's seniority list and taking commands from a 26 year old Captain with 18 months of longevity THEN you need to consider Delta, UPS, Flex, Net, Citation Shares, Emirates, anything to avoid being flat out of an airplane and non current when 1,500 pilots hit the street looking for work.

Our mission on Flight Info & the Coconut Telegraph needs to be focused on friends helping friends get hired. Once we strike and shut this place down (which is the honorable thing to do) we become pariahs. Delta did not hire a single Eastern striker that I know of.

 

[Texx]

However, if we go bust and are liquidated,...

And how would this happen?

If ASA was really trying to save money why did they promote AD when they eliminated the ramp in ATL? You see it's just like when Skip was at ASA. Load up on upper management and do the cutting below.

Just remember, the first to go are the ones on the bottom of the list.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wow. You know, I used to more or less see eye to eye with you, but your recent 180 has grown most tiresome. I am far from the most militant union guy on property, and I have never been a "burn it down" person, but I can't even begin to align myself to your newfound point of view.

If we are, in fact, doomed as you say, then our negotiations are meaningless. If we cave on everything and work for less than SKW, we still lose. According to you, an evil alliance of the Republicans, the LDS, the ghost of Joseph Smith, Moroni, the NMB, and quite possibly Kim Jong Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have conspired to seal the fate of ASA.

If, in fact, we are done for, then why the rhetoric? Game over, remember? After all, nothing we do at this point will save us. You're wasting your time by closing the proverbial barn door behind the horse.

Or....

We can consider the fact that Jerry is and always has been a very good businessman. He's in the business to making money for his shareholders. By your recent comments, you obviously have no idea what the negotiating committee has been asking for as of late. Aircraft transfers, as previously demonstrated, cost about 100k a piece. Nothing the negotiating committee is asking for.... really asking for... costs anywhere near that amount.

Atkin and company are not going to squander shareholders' dollars in a money-losing attempt to break a union. There will be no aircraft transfer, as the last transfer was not received by the people who ultimately control the purse strings.

You are content to portray yourself as a wise oldtimer who has seen it all and can no longer find the heart to support the MEC and the negotiating committee because you feel they don't have the best interests of the pilot group at heart. In reality you are a weak man who was more than willing to support one position for four plus years and then change directions overnight. You lack conviction, and you are not confident enough to support the beliefs you have long held in the face of a little adversity.

You, sir, are not a voice of reason. You are nothing more than a coward.

Thanks for your OPINION, FWIW. I'm sure you won a lot of hearts and minds with that drivelous diatribe.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Then our course is set.

Without scope, we are finished. No binding scope means no binding contract. The alternative is underbidding SkyWest guys. Then when they take concessions, underbidding them again in a vicious cycle that undermines our profession.

Folks like me can wish that we would have made scope a priority early - when Skip Barnette would have agreed instantly and we could have obtained excellent merger and fragmentation language - but regrets and missed opportunities will do us no good now.

All of us at this airline need to make priority #1 getting another job. Unless your version of "another job" is near the bottom of SkyWest's seniority list and taking commands from a 26 year old Captain with 18 months of longevity THEN you need to consider Delta, UPS, Flex, Net, Citation Shares, Emirates, anything to avoid being flat out of an airplane and non current when 1,500 pilots hit the street looking for work.

Our mission on Flight Info & the Coconut Telegraph needs to be focused on friends helping friends get hired. Once we strike and shut this place down (which is the honorable thing to do) we become pariahs. Delta did not hire a single Eastern striker that I know of.

Well said Fins.

Those that advocate the will of "flip 'em off Former FreightDog" are chasing the windmill of lost opportunities, and living in a fantasy world. I prefer to live in the present, and when I see ASA becoming dismantled under our feet, yes, I'll change my opinion 180 degrees and call for a new approach. Some drink in the chest thumping rhetoric and refuse to do that.

You will never convince them. The "silent majority" needs to become vocal!

 

[wms]

Your management team is on record (as of the last negotiating session) as saying, "There is not enough money left on the table to buy scope."

How do you propose we fix that?

What would you expect them to say? We're in negotiations! They don't want to risk the future of ASA any more than we, so we should all work together to preserve the company. But that doesn't mean settliing for less than we're worth when we work for the most profitable regional in the industry. That would be a disgrace. We cannot hold up our heads without SKYW 50-seat rates with COLA, current 70-seat rates with COLA, 100% retro and rigs. They can afford it and will pay it if we negotiate it. Our planes have not been tranferred because of operating costs, they've been transferred because of negotiations. There's a difference. If we weren't in negotiations we would not have lost anything, even if we're a little more expensive.