What are the chances of AA hiring again?

[FlyBoeingJets]

They gotta recall about 3000 furloughees first. That should take at least 5 years.

Of course, then they will hire you and furlough you for 5+ years. LOL

Big Slick has got lots of good insight, but I agree 1/3 won't go back. Could be over 1/2 depending on how sick or healthy AA looks when they are called.

Imagine this, if you are one of the 1000 most junior furloughed you have probably been at another job for at least 4 years. You will likely be at that job another 3 years. It could be that NONE of the bottom 1000 come back while the top 1000 has an 80% come back rate.

The exception are the military folks who went back on active duty to get their 20 years. They may just slide back into the company after 7-10 years out.

Tons and Tons of these guys are at Airtran, SWA, FedEX, Alaska, NetJets, UPS and JetBlue. Life goes on.

I figure we will be in the full throw of another big industry downturn before AA starts hiring off the street again. But we might be back in another upswing as well.

Find a seat before the music stops for a year or more.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

When will AA start hiring again, that's simple! About the time I get my recall. Ahh the joys of being the junior guy!

I've done the DFW-EWR commute many years ago. It wasn't that bad back then either.

So, junior dude, what is your take on going back after another 3-5 years out??

 

[bayoubandit]

Don't know. I'm trying not to put the horse before the cart on this one. If I'm at my current job I will most likely go back. Of course it depends in what AA looks like at that time. If I am fortunate enough to land a FedEx, CAL, SWA type of job, so long AA.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Don't know. I'm trying not to put the horse before the cart on this one. If I'm at my current job I will most likely go back. Of course it depends in what AA looks like at that time. If I am fortunate enough to land a FedEx, CAL, SWA type of job, so long AA.

I wish you well. Keep looking for some old buds. They upgrading to Captain and check airman at those you mention above and may be able to help you out.

 

[AA717driver]

Why don't you do us all a favor and educate us on this history. Or do you want us to wait till AA loses the China Route and associated revenue.

If you're not on the list, you don't have a dog in this fight. If you are, you should already know the history.

But, I'll humor you: AMR signs a contract with APA. AMR then sets about willfully violating the contract hoping to establish "past practice". (Sidebar: APA is partially responsible for this--the Green Book is the most loosely-worded CBA in existance. Too much room for interpretation, IMO.) If APA gives ground on crew compliment or facilities for ultra-long-haul, it could establish past practice and be intrepreted and applied to regular long-haul flights, reducing crew and weakening the contract on crew rest facilities. Who knows what AMR will come up with?

Good faith bargaining means nothing to AMR. I give you the events leading up to Carty's exit (I was in attendance for his plea to APA for concessions and setting a 'new tone'.) and the PUP. TC

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

What do you guys have now for augment on longhaul and what are they asking for as far as crew compliment and crew rest? Isn't India considered super longhaul and what do they do? Unfortunately we at NWA gave up what I and many others considered the gold standard. Always a real capt.(not typed fo) in the left seat getting real capt. pay for doing the job of pic. Unfortunately I think we were the only US airline augmenting like this, so we lost it in our raping. So far we have adequate crew rest areas on the wide bodies but I believe the 757 will be a coach seat but would have to check the contract. I am sure the resident expert on all airlines ASSINELLI will chime in with his 2 cents about how the cockpit jumpseats should be sufficienct for crew rest on a 16 hr flt.

 

[glasspilot1]

Old story but I'll say it anyway!

At TWA we had a leg that was right on the edge of 12 hours (Cairo to JFK). Of course the company scheduled it for 11:59 to keep from needing a second relief pilot! In an attempt to keep the average time of that leg under 12 hours they flight planned us for .82. (Well above econ speed for a 767-300).

Of course that upped the fuel burn. So what did most Capts do? They want to save fuel! So back come the throttles. So most legs went over 12 hours. Then the FAA got on the co. for not having another "Eater" for this leg.

 

[aa73]

Old story but I'll say it anyway!

At TWA we had a leg that was right on the edge of 12 hours (Cairo to JFK). Of course the company scheduled it for 11:59 to keep from needing a second relief pilot! In an attempt to keep the average time of that leg under 12 hours they flight planned us for .82. (Well above econ speed for a 767-300).

Of course that upped the fuel burn. So what did most Capts do? They want to save fuel! So back come the throttles. So most legs went over 12 hours. Then the FAA got on the co. for not having another "Eater" for this leg.

AA did the same thing a couple of summers ago on DFW-HNL.... not only did they flight plan at .82, they flight planned at something like FL250!! All this to keep from having an FB ("eater" in TWAspeak.) Eventually that came to a halt as well.

Cobra, as far as what we do on super long haul, it is one CA and 3 FOs. DFW-Beijing would be the same, I suspect. I thought you NWA guys had 2 CAs and 2 FOs?

 

[accinelli]

What do you guys have now for augment on longhaul and what are they asking for as far as crew compliment and crew rest? Isn't India considered super longhaul and what do they do? Unfortunately we at NWA gave up what I and many others considered the gold standard. Always a real capt.(not typed fo) in the left seat getting real capt. pay for doing the job of pic. Unfortunately I think we were the only US airline augmenting like this, so we lost it in our raping. So far we have adequate crew rest areas on the wide bodies but I believe the 757 will be a coach seat but would have to check the contract. I am sure the resident expert on all airlines ASSINELLI will chime in with his 2 cents about how the cockpit jumpseats should be sufficienct for crew rest on a 16 hr flt.

Yeah -- NWA should have 2 relief captains on the 757s and the company should block 4 first class seats for them. Then block another 4 seats for the FAs -- god knows what value they add to the company. That still gives the company 12-16 business class seats to sell to the fare paying passengers. But then -- why can't the company make money?? Oh -- the fares must be too low!!

Get a life Cobra. A crew augument of FOs works just fine. Of course people like you will whine when you have to "earn" your money as it violates your sense of "entitlement." The gold standard was nothing but full pay for half the work (in many cases a complete joyride for the second captain).

 

[accinelli]

If you're not on the list, you don't have a dog in this fight. If you are, you should already know the history.

But, I'll humor you: AMR signs a contract with APA. AMR then sets about willfully violating the contract hoping to establish "past practice". (Sidebar: APA is partially responsible for this--the Green Book is the most loosely-worded CBA in existance. Too much room for interpretation, IMO.) If APA gives ground on crew compliment or facilities for ultra-long-haul, it could establish past practice and be intrepreted and applied to regular long-haul flights, reducing crew and weakening the contract on crew rest facilities. Who knows what AMR will come up with?

Good faith bargaining means nothing to AMR. I give you the events leading up to Carty's exit (I was in attendance for his plea to APA for concessions and setting a 'new tone'.) and the PUP. TC

Well at least you admit that the APA is responsible as well. Carty is gone. Give the new guy a chance. And keep it behind closed doors. AA or any other airline losing routes like this comes back to hurt the pilots -- not management.

 

[accinelli]

AA did the same thing a couple of summers ago on DFW-HNL.... not only did they flight plan at .82, they flight planned at something like FL250!! All this to keep from having an FB ("eater" in TWAspeak.) Eventually that came to a halt as well.

Cobra, as far as what we do on super long haul, it is one CA and 3 FOs. DFW-Beijing would be the same, I suspect. I thought you NWA guys had 2 CAs and 2 FOs?

What's wrong with a little creative planning?

 

[AA717driver]

accinelli--Are you an AMR management pilot? Or, did Lowcur drop another $10 to get a new screen name?

I do Pt. 91 longhaul now to 11 hours w/o a relief pilot. It's not safe. We'll do India/China/BKK/SIN with a third pilot and you still get punchy after being up 24 hours (including the 4-6 hours in the "crew rest").

You need flat rest (a FC seat doesn't cut it) isolated from the main cabin and FA intrusions for long periods at a time (6 hours plus) at a minimum.

I've you've done these types of long-haul and you feel great after a couple hours of rest in a FC seat, I commend you. I'm just the product of inferior genes, I guess. TC

 

[ils2minimums]

accinelli--Are you an AMR management pilot? Or, did Lowcur drop another $10 to get a new screen name? TC

No TC, this guy is not a pilot for AA, nor anyone else for that matter... He is a pilot-hating Northwest Airlines flight attendant who likes to "play" pilot here on FI. I wasted a few minutes reading some of his posts a while back after reading a comment he made in another thread... I feel dumber for having done so.

 

[accinelli]

No TC, this guy is not a pilot for AA, nor anyone else for that matter... He is a pilot-hating Northwest Airlines flight attendant who likes to "play" pilot here on FI. I wasted a few minutes reading some of his posts a while back after reading a comment he made in another thread... I feel dumber for having done so.

You feel dumber as reality has manifested itself and is finally coming out. The pilots, wannabes and jackasses on this board (especially in the majors section) just cannot handle that one of their own would have a difference of opinion.

 

[AA717driver]

Thanks, ils2. TC

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Ass,

So are you a fa, low level mgmt, or a pilot (which I doubt unless you are just trolling these boards to stir up trouble). It has to be pretty obvious that no one agrees with you on any topic I have seen so far. My guess is low level mgmt. who was always obscenely jealous of pilots pay and work conditions, but was too lazy or unqualified to become a pilot yourself.

 

[ils2minimums]

You feel dumber as reality has manifested itself and is finally coming out. The pilots, wannabes and jackasses on this board (especially in the majors section) just cannot handle that one of their own would have a difference of opinion.

No, I feel dumber for having sat in front of the computer and wasted valuable minutes of my life going back and reviewing some of the tripe you dole out here. You are not an airline pilot, you are a flight attendant who is quite envious of pilots, and you think you deserve pilot money and work rules because you work "harder" than us... You revel in fact that pilots have taken a financial hit and you think we are still overpaid. Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I just think you'd get a modicum of respect here if you'd just shoot straight instead of pretending to be something you're not...

 

[C-150ETOPS]

What's wrong with a little creative planning?

accinelli,

You claim you are one of us (pilot), yet you make a statement like the one above?

As a current type rated 767 pilot, AA's flight planning that flight at FL260 wasn't creative, it was irresponsible and would have been criminally negligent if serious injuries had occurred from hitting a mountain wave at 320 KIAS.
There is also the factor of increased fatigue due to the increased air noise in the cockpit.

Don't let me slow you down, you have every right to continue on proving yourself as a retard.

 

[Draginass]

So basically you'd risk losing the China route to another airline. And then you'll whine about AA not recalling fast enough pilots.

The company can come to an agreement on the new China routes anytime they want. It's not about just this particular route. It's about setting a precident. They know this. The APA knows this. If Arpey wants to continue to antagonize and insult his workforce, there's not much the workers can to about it. But don't expect them to prostrate themselves before management's alter of pain.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I was on property when that happened...

AA did the same thing a couple of summers ago on DFW-HNL.... not only did they flight plan at .82, they flight planned at something like FL250!! All this to keep from having an FB ("eater" in TWAspeak.) Eventually that came to a halt as well.

Cobra, as far as what we do on super long haul, it is one CA and 3 FOs. DFW-Beijing would be the same, I suspect. I thought you NWA guys had 2 CAs and 2 FOs?

.....I heard the CP delivered the flight plan to the Captain of that flight at the gate. That is a pretty strong incentive to fly the plane the way you are told.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Leonardo Dicaprio???...

No TC, this guy is not a pilot for AA, nor anyone else for that matter... He is a pilot-hating Northwest Airlines flight attendant who likes to "play" pilot here on FI. I wasted a few minutes reading some of his posts a while back after reading a comment he made in another thread... I feel dumber for having done so.

...who let him on the jumpseat, again!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Recall and hiring, just a guess...

I think at least 1/3 or more will bypass, at least at first. With 3 years to bypass after the most junior of almost 3000 pilots is recalled, that could be another 10 years. AA would have to start hiring off the street. Then after the 3years, or something in between, some more furloughees will accept recall with better relative senoirity than those hired off the street. Much like the AE flow through. However, the longer a pilot is off property, hopefully the better the position he/she is in at the current job. It may not be worth coming back at that point. I imagine it will boil down to the retirement and if you think it will not change and will be there when the individual pilot will be ready for retirement.

STL: was always a profitable hub for TWA. With DFW, ORD, and STL, the weather was usually good at one or two of those hubs for re-routing. At the time of the aqusition, DFW and ORD were stretched to the limits as far as capacity goes. After 9/11, demand dropped 20% - 30%. Total flights are still below 9/11 levels, but making come back with a different allocation. Remember the government limiting the AA and UA number of departures and the times when they left?

DFW-guy: don't plan a career based on what one airline might do. CAL would be a good choice if international is really what you would like to do. HOU wouldn't take that long to get, but they are stronger and more junior for the international out of EWR. Even if you got to AA, international out of DFW is very senior. Netjets or another fractional or OMNI might fit the bill for you.

 

[glasspilot1]

"Gas guzzling and noisy, the MD80 is the aging, and seemly indestructible jalopy of the skies."

Amazing how things change! Just a few years ago the MD-80 was the fuel efficient replacement for the "Gas guzzling and noisy jalopy, the Boeing 727"!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

To quote the "Dude".....

Amazing how things change! Just a few years ago the MD-80 was the fuel efficient replacement for the "Gas guzzling and noisy jalopy, the Boeing 727"!

(Dude to the reporter that wrote the quote) "Like, that's just like your opinion, man!"

 

[accinelli]

Ass,

So are you a fa, low level mgmt, or a pilot (which I doubt unless you are just trolling these boards to stir up trouble). It has to be pretty obvious that no one agrees with you on any topic I have seen so far. My guess is low level mgmt. who was always obscenely jealous of pilots pay and work conditions, but was too lazy or unqualified to become a pilot yourself.

FA, low level mgmt or a pilot. What a great guess! Why don't you quit whining and start doing something productive -- which in your case would be milking block times and walking out on flights and then complaining about the zero open time contract that you voted for!!

 

[accinelli]

The company can come to an agreement on the new China routes anytime they want. It's not about just this particular route. It's about setting a precident. They know this. The APA knows this. If Arpey wants to continue to antagonize and insult his workforce, there's not much the workers can to about it. But don't expect them to prostrate themselves before management's alter of pain.

The company has a lot less to lose than the pilots if the Route goes to another carrier. Arpey will do well either way. He along with many others have the option of jumping ship anytime and most likely get a better and higher paying gig -- a luxury that the seniority system does not give to most of the pilots.

Do you get it now???