What am I striking for?

[John Pennekamp]

I have gotten both sides and they don't agree. The management side is in print on the mycontract. You can see the ACTUAL agreements. It says in black and white that the company accepts 100% DH. It says the underblock is replaced by block or better. It shows increased per diem, it shows increased sick accrual. It shows scheduling improvements that will help me today if we can just wrap this up. If ALPA feels that the information is inaccurate, then show us in writing where it is inaccurate. Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

Could management possibly have published a proposal that makes them look good. One that's about two months old?

As I said, the truth is somewhere in between. Believe what you want and vote your conscience. Good luck getting a strike vote to fail.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

ASADriver is management or a management pilot. Period. If he wasn't he would be spouting his bullsh1t on the ASA MEC WebBoards too.

If was this passionate in his belief that he was being mislead by the association, he would voice his concerns to rep. He doesn't and therefore he is an anonymous troll trying to spread fear and dissention.

Sorry management boob. We're not buying it. You are trolling.

 

[atrdriver]

Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

Yes it is correct. Do you think that maybe management has not updated that web site? It IS run by them you know. I know what is on the table because I have talked to the people that are sitting at the table. Have you?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yes it is correct. Do you think that maybe management has not updated that web site? It IS run by them you know. I know what is on the table because I have talked to the people that are sitting at the table. Have you?

Exactly. At least someone "gets it".

 

[601Pilot]

The union is going to mail out the strike vote to ASA pilots but what will we be striking for? Is it for the 200 70 seat pilots that will be left next year if we don't get replacements for the 700's that are going to skywest. Is it for the less that $4 an hour raise for a FO and loosing 11 or more airplanes so you will never upgrade to $60 and hour and get you time to move on.

From looking at these web boards and talking to people I know there are two camps those that say strike and get the pay raise or shut down ASA and those that see that you can not be out of line with the rest of the industry. With the improvements that have already been TA(scheduling is the big one, commuter get out of jail free card) and the better lines were are seeing things at ASA are not really that bad.

Every single one of you knew what ASA was paid before you walked in the door. We all hoped to me making 100K+ in the 5th year of flying at some main line but that did not happen. Even with Delta's 50%+ pay cut it is the only way you will get to six figures. There no way ALPA can get that for you on a RJ(unless you stay 18 years). You have to get you time and move on. As long as some airline will fly for a lower rate there is no way to hold on to a rate that is out of line with every one else.

Now that Skywest owns us there is nothing stopping them from easily just taking all of our 700's away. Then what good is the rate that we went on strike for? People will be on the street and every one that is still at ASA will move backwards. I don't understand how people can say they don't care if we grow or loose airplanes or shut down they must all be in the top 10% or 15% in the left seat that may still hold on to a good line if the 700 go or have some other skill that they can walk in the door and get 60k to 70k a year to work 12 days a month.

While I don't understand that is how ever there view. Does ALPA and the MEC/CNC have your view? If you vote yes for a strike you are letting them put you on strike with out any future input from you for what is best for the union, and that may or may not be what is best for you. I don't ask that you agree with me but I do ask that you really think about what you would be striking for and who it would benefit when doing that strike ballot.

There is nothing ALPA can do to stop the "race to the bottom" unless there was one union for all regional airlines or every pilot group was doing there contract at the exact time. It is far to easy to get some one else to do the flying. If we go on strike to prove a point and become the highest paid will all loose in the end. Skywest will simply take all out airplanes away and ASA will slowly be gone. All the time that we have put it will be gone.

There are hundreds of reason why SKY inc would want the 700 and 900 planes flown by the lower paid pilots who fly both the 200 and 700. Can any of you or ALPA give one reason why they would have ASA pilots fly the airplanes for a rate that is currently higher or one that is 11% percent beyond that?

People say SKY inc will do what they want with there airplanes no matter what the pilots do. If we were paid the same or for the sake of argument less, had the same cost structure as SKY airlines why would they move the airplanes to SKY airlines? Again just think before you vote and if you would be happy or can live with what we currently have and the improvements that have been TA'ed, get some more airplanes so you can upgrade or get a better schedule then email the union and let them know.

Charlie??? I got your first letter, you don't have to spew another one here.

 

[av8tor4239]

Everyone has to remember several factors:

First, Pilots dont buy nor do they position airframes... If we are going to lose half of our fleet, no matter what we get paid it is going to happen. (Comair is the perfect example).

Second, you might get your little captains pay raise on the 50, but what if managments plan is to get rid of the 50's in the next 5 years and now the LOW rate that was negotiated in for the 700 is all we have in 5 years. Now where are you going to be.. you will be an UNDER PAID 700 driver, AKA: WHORE

I guess the point is that it is all smoke and mirrors and LIES. ASA pilot cost are the lowest in the industry on the CRJ 200, and second lowest behind MESA on the CRJ 700 (source: Aviation Daily posted all over the lounges).

BOTTOM LINE... This job is not worth doing for anything less.

OhPlease!, you say forget about FO pay and QOL because no one is going to be an FO for very long... WELL YOU ARE WRONG... I am on my 4th year as an FO with 150+ numbers from the most JR possible upgrade... Now that we have a base closing and a possible job action...... (can you say american eagle)... It is going to be a while...

I plan on buying a house, getting married and starting my 30's... If I have to unload trucks at Home Depot while on strike, then so be it, but I will be the FIRST ONE IN LINE to vote YES to a strike. I am doing it for my family, my future, and for all that come behind me in Seniority..... Someone before me did it, and someone before them did it.. THat is wat made this job desireable in the first place...

If ASA or who ever we are in 12 months shuts thier doors, then it wasnt ment to be.. PILOTS DONT RUN AIRLINES.. MANGAMENT RUNS AIRLINES AND OUR MANAGMENT WILL RUN US INTO THE GROUND OR MAKE US THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH TO WORK!

Also remember that every other employee group at ASA is getting PROFIT sharing checks and ontime bonuses except for the union represented labor.... So if we are so bad off and the PROFITS are not there, Where in the hell is this PROFIT sharing money coming from?


VOTE YES, OR YOU WILL BE THE NEXT MONKEY IN SPACE

 

[Redan]

Thank you Av8tor for nailing it right on the head! Newer guys: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!

 

[ASADriver]

Yes it is correct. Do you think that maybe management has not updated that web site? It IS run by them you know. I know what is on the table because I have talked to the people that are sitting at the table. Have you?

OK ATR, how come the union blastmail with the open item list doesn't show section 8 as being an open item. It also doesn't show underblock as an open item. That is from the union. Something doesn't add up.

 

[atrdriver]

You will notice that there is a disclaimer on that list. It says this list is provided as a summary, and does not show all open items. Maybe when they were typing up their summary they decided that the issues that they reported were of a higher priority. As you have shown us, many can only absorb a limited amount of information. If you want the whole story, then call someone on the CNC. Personally I have talked face to face with them, but I'm sure a phone call would suffice. But wait, you don't believe that anything that management does is wrong, and you believe that they don't ever lie to us, so it would probably be a wasted call for you.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You answered your own question. The reason for a strike is the lack of SCOPE language. Scope defines which flying is done by ASA pilots. Scope provides protections for ASA pilots if we get bought by another carrier. Scope provides jobs for pilots if the acquiring airline up and decides to transfer flying.

I am striking for scope and will not vote for a contract which does not bind Skywest. The pay rates are absolutely inconsequential to our pilots if Skywest "does what they want with the airplanes" without regard for the pilots who fly them.

Scope allows a union to create a monopoly on labor - forcing the company to use its pilots. It is the best leverage in the union tool box and is the legal concept wich allowed the formation of unions to begin with.

The 5 year plan for ASA is for there to be no ASA. Jerry Atkin has stripped and shut down every company he has bought. (My FSDO sources tell me it is more like a 2 1/2 year plan). Some ASA pilots would like a place flying their airplanes, even at Skywest. Scope defines how that gets accomplished.

We need scope which binds Skywest. We do not have ALPA National's support on this goal and about half the CNC is wishy washy because ALPA National is wishy washy on scope (because ALPA National really doesn't give a crud about ASA) We have some good junior members of the CNC and hopefully they will hold the line on this important issue.

I'm not optimistic. After 7 years I am sending out applications.... But again, scope is the reason to strike.

Good points Fins. Several of the MEC members and CNC members have said that we are not going to get scope that binds the holding company. They have said this based on advice from ALPA national.

If that is true, then how did Mesa bind Mesa Air Group and bring the CCAir and Freedom pilots onto the same seniority list? If that is true, then how did the CHQ pilots bind Republic to form a single list between the CHQ and Republic pilots. If that is true, then how did Wings West, Simmons, Executive and Flagship for American Eagle. If that is true, then why is the TSA MEC currently trying to bring *************************s pilots onto a single list with the TSA pilots.

Seems to me like we are getting bad information and worse yet we are believing it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Also remember that every other employee group at ASA is getting PROFIT sharing checks and ontime bonuses except for the union represented labor.... So if we are so bad off and the PROFITS are not there, Where in the hell is this PROFIT sharing money coming from?

ALPA has not been receptive to profit sharing and performance bonuses. That is why we don't have it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ATRDriver, this should be easy enough to clear up. Is section 8 TA'd. If so, what is the DH pay? It is unclear from the union updates. The open item list doesn't mention section 8 at all. However nothing says it is TAd either. While there are lots of things to debate, this shouldn't be one of them. Either it is settled or it isn't. Neither side of this debate should be able to spin this simple question.

 

[capt. megadeth]

We mean nothing and it bothers me to come to work for a company that really doesn't care about the pilots.

Whoa, bro if that is the case, you better just hold out for SWA because
THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT REMOTELY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT'S PILOTS! I hate to say it but that criteria has long gone to the bottom of my priority list. Good luck.

 

[JustaNumber]

We need to begin thinking about who we want for a Captain's Rep to replace Newie following his promotion. Hopefully we can get someone of his caliber, because he really has done an excellent job.

Hey Fins, have you considered the position? I think your intelligence, insight, and capacity for logical thought have not been surpassed, at least on this board.

We could have a write-in campaign on flightinfo for Fins for ASA Captain's Rep. Of course you would have to wear a parrot head during union meetings to keep your identity secret.
:beer:

 

[atrdriver]

ATRDriver, this should be easy enough to clear up. Is section 8 TA'd. If so, what is the DH pay? It is unclear from the union updates. The open item list doesn't mention section 8 at all. However nothing says it is TAd either. While there are lots of things to debate, this shouldn't be one of them. Either it is settled or it isn't. Neither side of this debate should be able to spin this simple question.

Well Joe, according to ASACONTRACT.COM the company proposal still shows 50% DH pay. 100% is scratched through, and 50% is underlined. It also does not show anything as "matched". I would point out to you as well that the ALPA summary has a disclaimer at the bottom that basically states that just the highlights (or lowlights) are shown, and that the summary does not represent all that is being discussed.

 

[ASACAPT]

ALPA Open Issue List

Deadhead is not listed as an issue since ALPA is happy with current book. Only issues raised by ALPA are listed on the open issue list. Company issues are not listed.

 

[sweptback]

ALPA has not been receptive to profit sharing and performance bonuses. That is why we don't have it.

I don't think the ASA MEC is against the above. I do however think that they are against the above as a way to make up money lost via a pay cut.

 

[1x1]

What kind of bonuses are the rampers, gate agents, etc. getting since the inception of that program? Are they genuinely impressed and satisfied? Being the nature of the beast ATL is, I can't imagine that it is significant.

Certainly, from the pilots perspective, there is no way a program like that will be acceptable in lieu of a paycut. As if Mgmt. is in a giving spirit anyway.

 

[atrdriver]

ALPA has not been receptive to profit sharing and performance bonuses. That is why we don't have it.

I believe that the reason that we don't have it is because the company has not offered it to us as of yet. I know for a fact that was the case as of 2 months ago.

 

[Tomct]

ATR, you might as well save your breathe. You will NEVER convince those guys, so why waste your time. It would not matter if Joe, EMB, ATL or anyone else for that matter, had that information, they would STILL try and find something wrong! They will be happy when we are on STRIKE!!! They will most likely cross the picket line!