What am I striking for?

[ASADriver]

Good luck you guys, I hope that the communication channels between the pilot group and the MEC are up and running!

Based on several pages of posts it is clearly evident that this is not the case. I haven't talked with anyone that has a clear view of what really is going on. This whole process is simply amazing to me. Good luck to all. we are going to need it.

It seems like a total Charlie Foxtrot to me.

 

[EMB to CRJ]

I love how flightinfo brings all of the naysayers our of the woodwork. To read this forum, you would think all but of a handful of pilots are against our "runaway MEC". No wonder management is so empowered to cut our pay, speak ill about our union, and most importantly, in no hurry to settle the contract!

Unfortunately, this forum has no basis in fact.

Due to its anonymous nature, the naysayers my not even work at ASA. They may not be pilots. We have no way to know.

So just let the naysayers of flightinfo nay. The vast majority of pilots (90%+ according to the MEC polling) support the MEC and its negotiating goals. Those sounding off here do it out of cowardice and desperation because they would get the smackdown in the crew lounge if they spoke out. Let management think they have the pilots support, since they read this forum. The joke will be on them.

Lots of people in the airport say pro union stuff because that is the thing to do. Look how people jump all over you when you try to bring up a point that does not go with the union agenda on the boards. What do you think would happen if you said it at the airport would people listen or just shut you down?.

As for the Wilson polling I have done that survey 3 times and it is the same one. All the questions are designed to get you to say you want a strike. They ask which of the following goals will you strike for and then list several items from the original contract goals vs. are there any items you will strike for. It does not ask you if based on the current items that have been TA'ed and ASA's final offer for the open sections being xyz do you want to strike".

The poll may show 90% support of the MEC goals but when was that poll taken, things are changing all the time. What are the MEC's goals? I don't think the MEC released a document listing all the improvements that they have so far and listing the details of what the company is offering for the open sections. How can you vote to strike with out that information?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Lots of people in the airport say pro union stuff because that is the thing to do. Look how people jump all over you when you try to bring up a point that does not go with the union agenda on the boards. What do you think would happen if you said it at the airport would people listen or just shut you down?.

As for the Wilson polling I have done that survey 3 times and it is the same one. All the questions are designed to get you to say you want a strike. They ask which of the following goals will you strike for and then list several items from the original contract goals vs. are there any items you will strike for. It does not ask you if based on the current items that have been TA'ed and ASA's final offer for the open sections being xyz do you want to strike".

The poll may show 90% support of the MEC goals but when was that poll taken, things are changing all the time. What are the MEC's goals? I don't think the MEC released a document listing all the improvements that they have so far and listing the details of what the company is offering for the open sections. How can you vote to strike with out that information?

Or maybe everyone just jumps on you because they disagree with you? Yeah it's an ALPA conspiracy!

 

[ASADriver]

Or maybe everyone just jumps on you because they disagree with you? Yeah it's an ALPA conspiracy!

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

 

[EMB to CRJ]

Yep, we did. And now they want to cut that amount by a minimum of 10% for EVERY PILOT HERE. More for some. Sorry, that is not acceptable to me. Actually I'm not sorry. It's not acceptable. I love flying, and I actually like doing it for ASA. I don't, however, like doing it for a management "team" that is so far removed from reality that they actually think they are the reason behind the companies success.

Where did you see this 10% pay cut for every one. The last email I got from the untion showed the company wanted no change for most people and a cut on the 700 and a small 2% or so raise for the 200 left seat.

 

[John Pennekamp]

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

If debate is attacking you, then I guess the attacks would end if I agreed with you? Maybe because I'm not on the MEC? Maybe YOU should take some responsibility and go see your rep?

 

[14RF SUX]

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

I've asked this before, but how do you ID a P2P member? Do they have a secret lapel pin or something?

I agree, it's not a seemingly effective communication channel, with different interpretations and no consistency, let alone the fact I can't ID them.

I'm still voting yes though, but pay me well and watch me go the extra mile.

14 RF SUX

 

[ASADriver]

I've asked this before, but how do you ID a P2P member? Do they have a secret lapel pin or something?

I agree, it's not a seemingly effective communication channel, with different interpretations and no consistency, let alone the fact I can't ID them.

I'm still voting yes though, but pay me well and watch me go the extra mile.

14 RF SUX

They have a red ALPA pin. I agree with you that it isn't the best way to communicate.

 

[ASADriver]

If debate is attacking you, then I guess the attacks would end if I agreed with you? Maybe because I'm not on the MEC? Maybe YOU should take some responsibility and go see your rep?

You've done more attacking than answering of questions and debating issues. That won't get us anywhere. We need to see the current offer in PRINT so that we can make an informed decision.

 

[atrdriver]

Where did you see this 10% pay cut for every one. The last email I got from the untion showed the company wanted no change for most people and a cut on the 700 and a small 2% or so raise for the 200 left seat.

That is just the payrate. They also propose to eliminate premium pay. That, for most pilots here, is about 10% or more of their total pay. Look at your last paycheck and see what "Underblock" YTD is vs your total pay. You need to get educated on what the company is proposing before you decide that it is a great deal.

 

[atrdriver]

This is why some of us don't trust ALPA. The current proposal DOES NOT GIVE ME A MINIMUM 10% PAYCUT. That is a LIE! The union's option may give me a 100% paycut. Quit lying ALPA!

You go look at your last paycheck and see what percentage of YTD Underblock is vs your total pay. I bet it is somewhere around 10%, unless you are one of those guys that can somehow make a CSG leg into 3 hours. For most of the pilot group, loss of premium, WHICH IS IN THE COMPANIES PROPOSAL, would result in about a 10% paycut. Then, add in only getting 50% of any deadheading that you do. You really need to educate yourself on what the companies proposal is before you open your mouth. Now quit calling me a liar idiot.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You've done more attacking than answering of questions and debating issues. That won't get us anywhere. We need to see the current offer in PRINT so that we can make an informed decision.

Ok, so telling you you're wrong is attacking? What information would you like to hear? Is there anything that will make YOU stop ATTACKING the union and your fellow pilots?

Pot calling the kettle black?

As for the current offer in print, I don't think either side has released it. Go ask management or our MEC.

I choose to believe what the union I pay to represent me is saying. I choose to disbelieve what management, representing their own interests says. To each his own!

 

[ASADriver]

You go look at your last paycheck and see what percentage of YTD Underblock is vs your total pay. I bet it is somewhere around 10%, unless you are one of those guys that can somehow make a CSG leg into 3 hours. For most of the pilot group, loss of premium, WHICH IS IN THE COMPANIES PROPOSAL, would result in about a 10% paycut. Then, add in only getting 50% of any deadheading that you do. You really need to educate yourself on what the companies proposal is before you open your mouth. Now quit calling me a liar idiot.

That isn't accurate atr, most of the underblock pay would be replaced by managements proposal of block or better. In other words if you came in early you would get credit up to block. For most of us it would be the same. People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

The DH pay is current book 100%. Go look at MyContract - you have to look at the Feb. package proposal, but it accepts 100%DH, raises sick time accrue, and raises per diem.

The total package would be a payraise for me as a line holder on the 50.

This information should be in all of our hands before we vote. Is that too much to ask?

 

[ASADriver]

Ok, so telling you you're wrong is attacking? What information would you like to hear? Is there anything that will make YOU stop ATTACKING the union and your fellow pilots?

Pot calling the kettle black?

As for the current offer in print, I don't think either side has released it. Go ask management or our MEC.

I choose to believe what the union I pay to represent me is saying. I choose to disbelieve what management, representing their own interests says. To each his own!

I believe information when I actually see it. I went to the companies contract side and found that the 50% DH pay that P2P are saying is not true. The Feb. package proposal raised that to 100%.

I'm not attacking, I am simply asking for ALPA to give me accurate information. I am not paying ALPA to not tell me the truth or to withold information.

As I see it, as currently proposed, I would get a small raise on the 50 and would have a better QOL with the scheduling improvements that have already been TAd.

 

[John Pennekamp]

People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

Has the thought occured to you that management would proceed to keep EVERYONE at or below guarantee if we agreed to that?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I believe information when I actually see it. I went to the companies contract side and found that the 50% DH pay that P2P are saying is not true. The Feb. package proposal raised that to 100%.

I'm not attacking, I am simply asking for ALPA to give me accurate information. I am not paying ALPA to not tell me the truth or to withold information.

As I see it, as currently proposed, I would get a small raise on the 50 and would have a better QOL with the scheduling improvements that have already been TAd.

Sounds to me like you're well versed on the COMPANY side of the story since you keep quoting MANAGEMENT SPONSORED sources. Have you made the effort to get the union's side? Have you discussed it withyour rep, MEC chairman, or CNC chairman? Email them if you want the scoop... they're very accessible. Make the effort.

There are two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in between. You history at flightinfo has shown a very strong management bias. Get both sides of the story before YOU decide what the truth is.

 

[ASADriver]

Has the thought occured to you that management would proceed to keep EVERYONE at or below guarantee if we agreed to that?

That's absurd! Why would they want to build lines to only 75 hours? That would require more pilots and would raise their costs. They will want to get as much out of us as they can. With a min. day which is probably doable, a 75 hour line will mean more time off which is fine with me also - their choice.

 

[John Pennekamp]

That's absurd! Why would they want to build lines to only 75 hours? That would require more pilots and would raise their costs. They will want to get as much out of us as they can. With a min. day which is probably doable, a 75 hour line will mean more time off which is fine with me also - their choice.

Yeah more new pilots at $19 per hour, and less high paid senior FOs like yourself making over block. It makes perfect sense.

 

[ASADriver]

Sounds to me like you're well versed on the COMPANY side of the story since you keep quoting MANAGEMENT SPONSORED sources. Have you made the effort to get the union's side? Have you discussed it withyour rep, MEC chairman, or CNC chairman? Email them if you want the scoop... they're very accessible. Make the effort.

There are two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in between. You history at flightinfo has shown a very strong management bias. Get both sides of the story before YOU decide what the truth is.

I have gotten both sides and they don't agree. The management side is in print on the mycontract. You can see the ACTUAL agreements. It says in black and white that the company accepts 100% DH. It says the underblock is replaced by block or better. It shows increased per diem, it shows increased sick accrual. It shows scheduling improvements that will help me today if we can just wrap this up. If ALPA feels that the information is inaccurate, then show us in writing where it is inaccurate. Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

 

[atrdriver]

That isn't accurate atr, most of the underblock pay would be replaced by managements proposal of block or better. In other words if you came in early you would get credit up to block. For most of us it would be the same. People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

The DH pay is current book 100%. Go look at MyContract - you have to look at the Feb. package proposal, but it accepts 100%DH, raises sick time accrue, and raises per diem.

The total package would be a payraise for me as a line holder on the 50.

This information should be in all of our hands before we vote. Is that too much to ask?

You are incorrect. Managements proposal of block or better would only allow a line to be paid what it is blocked. Our current book premium is paid on a leg by leg basis and is paid on top of guarantee. I can do the math for you or you can do it yourself, but our current book is better than what the company is proposing. And currently the company is at 50% DH pay. I don't care what asacontract.com says, I care what the company negotiators have put on the table. Again, you need to do your research. I have, it is obvious that you have not.